From the Parkinglot
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They are and have been a terribly undisciplined team since KAT showed up.
All Things Minnesota Timberwolves 2022-2023 In-Season Thread
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Iceland12
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Understand your point but disagree. Wasn't talking about that season, where Butler played 59 of 82 games, but what it took to get him and what happened when he left. After he quit on the team 10 games into the next season.
Yes they got to 47 wins and they made the playoffs. One more than they had last year when they also made the playoffs but what if the trade for Butler didn't happen?
He was traded for Zach LaVine, Kris Dunn(another terrible Thibodeau pick) and Lauri Markkanen. No trade and the Wolves would have had Towns, Markkanen, LaVine, Wiggins, Rubio etc.
They wouldn't have traded for D'Angelo Russell, keeping that 1st Round pick and they wouldn't have mortgaged their future to get Gobert either.
Of course they'd still have those damn General Managers..
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Bob_Loblaw
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But if we start rewinding things like this, you can't keep the nice things we have now from the fall out.
For Butler and a 1st, we traded Lavine, Dunn, and Markannen. You slot in Markannen like we would have picked him and ignore that we butchered the pick we got back (#16 Patton) and we turned that into a playoff run (that counts for something), Covington, Saric, Bayless and a 2nd round pick.
- RoCo (and filler) got us Beasley, Hermangomez, Vanderbilt an expiring and a 1st round pick.
- Traded Saric to move up from like 12 to 6 in the draft
But if you really wanted to run it back for how I think it would have played out if we never traded for Butler - this is just my opinion.
#1: I think the Timberwolves still move on from Rubio in favor of Jeff Teague. That's disgusting but I think that still happens.
#2: That offseason we would be in a really tough spot with Lavine and Wiggins. IMO, the Wolves clearly preferred Wiggins (incorrectly). So do we max both of the players? I think we probably max Wiggins and either trade Lavine or let him walk. But for the sake of this exercise, I'll say we resigned him bc there are too many "what ifs" in my scenario.
#3: Trading for Butler moved us from #7 to #16, I don't think we draft Markannen - he doesn't feel like a Thibs player. I think we probably draft Zach Collins or Malik Monk.
So I think this is our team and we are absolutely pressed against the cap:
C: Towns / Collins
PF: Taj Gibson / Bjelica
SF: Wiggins / Shabazz
SG: Lavine / Jamal Crawford
PG: Teague / Tyus Jones / Dunn
I don't think that team is very good and it is completely salary capped.
Maybe, if the Wolves started magically making good decisions instead of trading for Butler (kept Rubio, drafted Markannen, maxed Lavine, moved on from Wiggins, etc.) things would have worked out better for us but I doubt it. Even this year, we will likely finish with a top 10-15 season in Wolves history.
GopherWeatherGuy
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Connelly has a great track record in the draft. He should never be allowed to trade for a player again, which is where he has a terrible track record.
It would be nice if he could sucker someone into sending us a bunch of 1st rounders back for Towns, then maybe there would be some hope in the future.
It would be nice if he could sucker someone into sending us a bunch of 1st rounders back for Towns, then maybe there would be some hope in the future.
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He will have to prove he can find diamonds in the rough with 2nd rounders.
Watching that game last night hurt my heart. I'm not going to pretend that I knew Kessler would be this good. (I'm no Danny Ainge.) However, when I started obsessively looking at every video I could find of Kessler when the wolves drafted him, I could see that he had skills. As I said on here a few months ago I'd much rather pay 22 year old Walker Kessler $2M a year than pay 30 year old Rudy $40M a year to do the same thing, even if he's only half as good. Kessler is already way, way more than half as good as Rudy.
The only way out of this mess is for the wolves to trade Towns. The problem is everybody in the league knows it, so they are only going to get $.80 on the dollar. On starter, one rotation player and two 1sts.
All of this engineered by our new "owners," who are late on there second payment, and a POBO on the job less than a month.
The only way out of this mess is for the wolves to trade Towns. The problem is everybody in the league knows it, so they are only going to get $.80 on the dollar. On starter, one rotation player and two 1sts.
All of this engineered by our new "owners," who are late on there second payment, and a POBO on the job less than a month.
From the Parkinglot
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Don’t they also have to trade Gobert and take $.50 on the dollar. I mean this is ants team and that is just the way it has to be.
BleedGopher
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I don't even think we can get 50 cents on the dollar for Gobert. His contract is virtually untradeable at this point. Who would want that burden? There were rumors that Utah was going to have to give assets to a team to take on Gobert's contract, and then all of the sudden we swopped in and offered a treasure trove of assets. Sigh.
Howl Wolves!!
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Sir Charles says it was the worst trade in NBA history, the Wolves acquiring Gobert. A little strong, but he may not be that far off.
Barkley: Gobert to Wolves "Worst trade in NBA history"
Everybody is saying that this is Ant's team and that's probably true. However, he's currently a top 15-25 player. If your top guy is right around #20, you aren't going very far.
Ant is very talented and super charismatic but he still has a lot of holes in his game. If the franchise really wants to recover from the Rudy debacle, the front office should consider trading Ant instead of KAT. A competent ownership group and POBO could get $1.20 on the dollar for Ant. Unfortunately, that's not ARod, Lore and Connelly.
OK, never mind.
Imagine building around 30 million dollar a year, Mauer. Oh wait, never mind.
You really shouldn't criticize Ant like this. How old are you?
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GopherWeatherGuy
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And where would this team go with two 7 footers for the next 3.5 - 6 years making nearly 100 between just the two of them in 24-25 and 25-26? Nowhere. They have to break that up because they won't work together, and they make too much money.
KAT's contract is horrific and exactly why I wanted to trade him after last season rather than extend him. Pairing Ant with Gobert, and dumping KAT, if that's even possible, makes way more sense. Ant is only 21 years old, and Gobert's contract is cheaper and expires 2 years sooner than KAT's. It would be much easier to build around those two from a roster construction standpoint and a financial standpoint.
Yes, trade KAT. They are in almost every game, and they can get a good to great return on KAT.
BleedGopher
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Reusse chimes in: As Rudy Gobert deal tumbles into 'worst Timberwolves trade' territory, a reminder: Danny Ainge did this — again
No matter. I'm sticking with this piping hot take: Everything being equal other than age, Ainge wouldn't take Gobert even for Kessler.
And there's a little more than one-for-one for the Jazz:
They get the Timberwolves' first-rounders in 2023, 2025, 2027 and 2029 (that one's top-five protected). They also have the right to swap picks in 2026, by when the Wolves should have a strong mathematical chance in the lottery.
Charles Barkley was in the TNT studio Monday and apparently watched enough Kessler moments to offer this opinion: "The Timberwolves made the worst trade in NBA history ... That was so stupid, that trade.''
This could be a slight exaggeration, considering it might be only the second stupidest trade the Wolves have made with Ainge.
And I hope Mr. Ainge can sleep at night, knowing as he does that the Book of Mormon is very clear on thievery, stating:
"He that stealeth and will not repent shall be cast out.''
How could Ainge possibly claim repentance when he did it to us again?
www.startribune.com
Howl Wolves!!
No matter. I'm sticking with this piping hot take: Everything being equal other than age, Ainge wouldn't take Gobert even for Kessler.
And there's a little more than one-for-one for the Jazz:
They get the Timberwolves' first-rounders in 2023, 2025, 2027 and 2029 (that one's top-five protected). They also have the right to swap picks in 2026, by when the Wolves should have a strong mathematical chance in the lottery.
Charles Barkley was in the TNT studio Monday and apparently watched enough Kessler moments to offer this opinion: "The Timberwolves made the worst trade in NBA history ... That was so stupid, that trade.''
This could be a slight exaggeration, considering it might be only the second stupidest trade the Wolves have made with Ainge.
And I hope Mr. Ainge can sleep at night, knowing as he does that the Book of Mormon is very clear on thievery, stating:
"He that stealeth and will not repent shall be cast out.''
How could Ainge possibly claim repentance when he did it to us again?
As Rudy Gobert deal tumbles into 'worst Timberwolves trade' territory, a reminder: Danny Ainge did this — again
We all watched Walker Kessler own Monday afternoon at Target Center and, well, maybe Charles Barkley isn't far off in calling the Timberwolves' dealing for Rudy Gobert "the worst trade."
www.startribune.com
Howl Wolves!!
My post was somewhat contrarian.
I love watching Ant play. He's by far my favorite player and he's by far the favorite player of the fan base. I also hope he doesn't get traded because it means the Gobert deal is not salvageable.
Ant has the highest standing of players on this around the league. From a contrarian perspective, that's why they have to look at moving him. Management dug such a deep, long term hole from the foolish Gobert trade that it has to look at radical moves to recoup assets. As I said earlier, trading KAT is only a partial answer and it's probably not enough to pull the franchise out of this highly consequential mess.
If players are considered "assets," Ant is easily the best asset this franchise had had since KG. Considering their royal screw up and the value of their other players, the team has to decide how to best maximize Ant's value.
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It is amazing all the draft mess ups they have made since becoming the wolves. Then you finally get what might be another good one and you trade him away for a 30 year old center making $40million a year. This in the day and age when people are shooting 30-40 threes a night. What an absolute bleep show.
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Charles is correct.
God, I was praying you we’re gonna turn out wrong when the Gobert trade when down. Even if my heart of hearts skipped two beats after hearing the price.
However, the idea we have to “recoup” assets belongs as a sunk cost. We can’t recoup them, they’re gone. They are now just known constraints.
GopherWeatherGuy
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How'd the KG trade work out? I agree that Ant is our best asset, but there's more to rebuilding than that. You don't trade away a 21 year old budding superstar who has improved every year. You do trade away 27 year olds who have superstar talent, but never became one.
The hole they've dug themselves in doesn't get any shallower if they move Ant. It gets a lot shallower if they can move Towns, even if they can't get as much for him. Just dumping his contract and recouping 1 or 2 first round picks would be a massive improvement long term.
BleedGopher
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Our trade is up there as one of the worst ever, but hard to imagine any trade being worse than Kobe for Vlade.
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True. Although Kobe's "team" pretty much forced it from what I remember.
Bob_Loblaw
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You can get first round picks pretty easily in the NBA for cash considerations and 2nd rounders.
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Wolves(22-23) are out in Denver(31-13) tonight. It will be on ESPN at 9:00 locally.
Denver Nuggets
Minnesota Timberwolves
Denver Nuggets
| NAME | POS | DATE | STATUS | COMMENT |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Collin Gillespie | G | Jan 16 | Out | Gillespie (lower leg) is listed as out for Tuesday's game against the Trail Blazers. |
| Peyton Watson | F | Jan 5 | Out | Watson will be sidelined for a "couple of weeks" due to a left adductor strain, Harrison Wind of TheDNVR.com reports. |
| Jeff Green | PF | Jan 4 | Out | Green (hand) is out for Wednesday's game Thursday's game the Clippers. |
Minnesota Timberwolves
| NAME | POS | DATE | STATUS | COMMENT |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Taurean Prince | PF | Jan 17 | Day-To-Day | Prince is questionable for Wednesday's game against the Nuggets due to a left ankle sprain. |
| Anthony Edwards | SG | Jan 17 | Day-To-Day | Edwards is questionable for Wednesday's game at Denver due to left hip soreness. |
| Rudy Gobert | C | Jan 17 | Out | Gobert (groin) is questionable for Wednesday's game versus Denver. |
| Jordan McLaughlin | PG | Jan 16 | Out | Timberwolves head coach Chris Finch said Monday that he doesn't expect McLaughlin (calf) to return to game action anytime soon, Dane Moore of 'The Dane Moore NBA Podcast' reports. |
| Karl-Anthony Towns | C | Jan 7 | Out | Towns is considered weeks away from returning to the lineup while he continues to recover from the right calf strain he sustained Nov. 28, Jon Krawczynski of The Athletic reported Wednesday. |
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GopherWeatherGuy
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How does it take KAT 2+ months to recover from a calf strain?
Iceland12
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Towns went with his calf injury the end of November. McLaughlin went down with his a week later. Bad medical staff or just lying? If somebody knows the truth they aren't talking.
Always wondered about NBA injury reports and the Wolves reports in particular. Often it's about tanking. Which doesn't apply here.
Strike that. Looking at how that franchise has been run, they may think tanking would help.
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I've read that frequently. Any data on how often it actually happens?
I was curious, so I did a little research. FWIW, Ant is currently a consensus top 30-35 player. The knock on him is defense and passing. He's probably top 5 in charisma and likability, which does matter.
In the hypothetical, would you take a top 50 and four 1st's for Ant or a top 100, a role player and 2 1st's for KAT? In that scenario, my head would say to trade Ant. My heart would say to trade KAT. Both mean starting over.
It sucks to play these mind games. ARod/Lore/Connelly messed up.
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They can't trade Ant... Total F-U to the fan base (insert joke here) if they do. I'd almost be willing to trade Rudy for a vet player and one number one.
GopherWeatherGuy
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I would take that trade for KAT in a heartbeat just to get rid of his contract. KAT already can't stay healthy. He's not a leader, he doesn't play defense. Are you really interested in paying him this per year in 2024 -2028?
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With Gobert busy playing for France in the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, Conley arranged summer workouts with his old Ohio State teammate Greg Oden so he could reacclimate himself to playing with a vertical threat. After years of slipping pocket bounce passes or flairs to the top of the key, floating lobs to Gobert to leverage his wing span and his preference for catching the ball above his head proved to be more difficult than he anticipated.
Conley and Oden were a devastating lob combo in college, but teaming up with Gobert over a decade later was not exactly like riding a bike. Muscle memory had to be restored, his eye level coming off the screen had to change. So he turned to Oden.
“I had to change my game a lot to dictate how to get him the ball and use him the best we can,” Conley said. “It worked, and we got it to work, and it just takes time and everybody’s got to be patient.”..
It is a challenge that Mitchell warned his friends Anthony Edwards and D’Angelo Russell about this summer after the trade was made.
“I told them, ‘It’s not just going to happen,’” Mitchell said. “‘You’ve gotta stay building that bond and chemistry. It’s going to take time to see it continuously build gradually.’”
Mitchell has proven prophetic. The fit with Gobert and Karl-Anthony Towns was clunky at the start, and the Wolves were just 10-11 in the 21 games before Towns went out with a strained right calf that could keep him out of the Wolves lineup until February.
Russell had success with a lob big in Jarrett Allen when the two played in Brooklyn, but he had not played with another one in his stints with the Golden State Warriors and Timberwolves over the last four years. Towns is a pick-and-pop big who prefers to drop back to the 3-point line after setting screens. Naz Reid likes to roll to the basket, but he does his best work catching pocket passes and not lobs.
For Edwards, the adjustment was even greater. He has never been a lob thrower. Not in his first two seasons in Minnesota; not in his lone college season at Georgia; not in high school in Atlanta.
“We didn’t have a rolling big, a vertical target. It’s not something that you look for initially when you’ve been playing three years without one,” coach Chris Finch said earlier this season..
theathletic.com
Conley and Oden were a devastating lob combo in college, but teaming up with Gobert over a decade later was not exactly like riding a bike. Muscle memory had to be restored, his eye level coming off the screen had to change. So he turned to Oden.
“I had to change my game a lot to dictate how to get him the ball and use him the best we can,” Conley said. “It worked, and we got it to work, and it just takes time and everybody’s got to be patient.”..
It is a challenge that Mitchell warned his friends Anthony Edwards and D’Angelo Russell about this summer after the trade was made.
“I told them, ‘It’s not just going to happen,’” Mitchell said. “‘You’ve gotta stay building that bond and chemistry. It’s going to take time to see it continuously build gradually.’”
Mitchell has proven prophetic. The fit with Gobert and Karl-Anthony Towns was clunky at the start, and the Wolves were just 10-11 in the 21 games before Towns went out with a strained right calf that could keep him out of the Wolves lineup until February.
Russell had success with a lob big in Jarrett Allen when the two played in Brooklyn, but he had not played with another one in his stints with the Golden State Warriors and Timberwolves over the last four years. Towns is a pick-and-pop big who prefers to drop back to the 3-point line after setting screens. Naz Reid likes to roll to the basket, but he does his best work catching pocket passes and not lobs.
For Edwards, the adjustment was even greater. He has never been a lob thrower. Not in his first two seasons in Minnesota; not in his lone college season at Georgia; not in high school in Atlanta.
“We didn’t have a rolling big, a vertical target. It’s not something that you look for initially when you’ve been playing three years without one,” coach Chris Finch said earlier this season..
Rudy Gobert's former Jazz teammates preach patience for the Timberwolves
Rudy Gobert's start in Minnesota wasn't what anyone had hoped but his former teammates say all he needs is time and some good chemistry.
theathletic.com