All Things Chet Holmgren Recruitment Thread (Class of 2021, Gophers Have Offered)

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laazrakit said:
Yeah... I had to look them up on Wikipedia. I guess I remember Maya because of the way she left the Lynx... and I read an article about how she married some guy she helped get out of prison. Anyway, I'm sure Paige will be perfectly happy being "Paige who?" With any luck it'll happen next season, when the next flavor of the week shows up. I'll give her one thing... she didn't cry when her championship dream was derailed, unlike Suggs.
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I mean, if that's true that you had to look them up, then you're clearly not a women's basketball fan or even somebody that has paid any attention to women's basketball in roughly the past 20 years. That's perfectly fine, but who exactly would you be comparing Paige Bueckers to favorably in this scenario (besides Lindsay Whalen, perhaps??) I can assure you she will not be a "flavor of the week" for anybody who pays even an iota of attention to women's basketball.

Finally...I guess I'm not surprised that you are downplaying women's basketball entirely with the mindset that it is so "pathetic" that an 18-19 year old cried following a loss in a national championship game.
 

alchemy2u said:
You do realize that many of those stats are directly related to being a big fish in a little pond. It is the fallacy of playing in a very weak conference.

We have had these discussion many times in the past so I looked up some of the old discussions.

I posted a thread back in Nov of 2018 where I admitted that Gonzaga finally has became a good team

https://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/threads/ok-i-have-to-admit-that-zags-are-a-good-team.85430/

But before that in a thread about Geno Crandell, myself and other pointed out how the Zags reputation was inflated and over hyped.

https://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/threads/geno-crandall.82514/post-1565664

Here is the one post:

Gonzaga qualified 14 out of the last 18 years as an automatic bid!. Also, Gonzaga schedules some good non-conference opponents because they typically do not play many in their conference. Going back through the years, their non-conference games are not much more difficult than a typical B1G conference schedule and they consitently do not win a majority of them.

Let's just go with the last 11 years and their record versus top twenty five teams: underlined teams are in the Tourney
2007-08: 1-5 beat StM, lost to Wash St, Tenn, Memphis, StM, Davidson
2008-09: 3-3 beat Tenn (twice), StM, lost to uConn, Memphis, NC
2009-10: 0-3 beat nobody, lost to MSU, Duke, Syracuse
2010-11: 2-5 beat StJohns, Baylor, lost to SDSU, Kstate, Ill, ND, Baylor, BYU
2011-12: 1-1 beat StM, Lost to OhioSt
2012-13: 1-2 beat OKst, lost to Ill, Butler
2013-14: 0-2 beat nobody, lost to Memphis, Arizona
2014-15: 1-2 beat SMU, lost to Arizona, Duke
2015-16: 3-3 beat uConn, Setonhall, Utah, lost to Texas A&M, Arizona, SMU
2016-17: 6-1 beat IowaSt, Arizona, StM (three time), WVirg, lost to NC
2017-18: 2-2 beat StM, OhioSt, lost to FL, Nova

Like I said before, Gonzaga has been a good team, but a lot of it has to do with the conference that they are in and the ease they have in getting into the Tourney. Their non-conference record is nowhere near among the best in the country.

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It sure makes your record look good when you have a free ride to the tourney by being in a weak conference. There is more, you can go back and read the discussion if you would like.
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Yeah, this is another perspective that further paints the picture and is definitely telling in some respects. That said, your comment to which I replied specifically cited P6 (actually you said P5, but isn't that football?). I found these stats over a decade compelling in response:

58-25 which is a 69.8% Win Pct.

Where would winning 70% of your games rank in a P6 conference? I'd guess high. I bet you'd make most NCAA tournamets. Caveat - for all I know, they were playing the rags of the P6.
 

So where are the Ricky Training-Wheels apologists now? Oh, yeah, gearing up on the Lobos message boards. I wonder how many five-star recruits he is going to let slide off his recruiting plate down there?
 

WadeHokenson said:
Finally...I guess I'm not surprised that you are downplaying women's basketball entirely with the mindset that it is so "pathetic" that an 18-19 year old cried following a loss in a national championship game.
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Actually, she didn't cry... She's pretty fierce.
 



alchemy2u said:
If he does it should come with an asterisk*

*75% of team wins were against the equivalent of DII or DII schools. *Never played in a real conference.
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It will not come with an asterisk. A fantastic coach. Does great against power 6 schools.
 

builtbadgers said:
It will not come with an asterisk. A fantastic coach. Does great against power 6 schools.
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Yes, I was just joking. But his win rate is greatly inflated versus a typical P5/6 coach who do not have that type of schedule every year. Even Pitino would have had a winning conference record at Gonzaga. Lol.
 


Last season I watched about as many Gonzaga games as Gophers games because they had Suggs and they were fun to watch. The Gophs had glimmers of excellence but consistently disapointed.
With a new coach and a Lifetime fitness pickup game roster, I'm thinking this coming season will be similar. Its a shame Chet left the state for greener pastures but I cant blame him. It would have been similar to the Humphries era with him here. One star player and a bunch a scrubs force feeding him the ball. Its truly a NBA farm system for these high talent players and they need to showcase their abilities to cash in at the next level. So I guess I am going to watch more Zags basketball, even though I'd rather not pay attention to Jesuit private schools sports teams.
 



alchemy2u said:
The Zag used a very specific formula in order to rise up the ladder and gain the overrated status that they enjoy today. Of course it is based upon adequately good coaching, but it all starts with the players. Gonzaga was able to build a successful pipeline to Europe and get much better players than they could attract in the US. With the best players in their conference, they dominated and continued to win the automatic bid for that conference. They continued at that stage and piled up a string of NCAA tournament appearances and a few wins here and there in the tourney. This inflated record attracted some better US players and that helped them become an even better team. Suggs was a breakthrough for them in actually getting a top tier recruit. This year they have expanded upon that and look to be a top level team. But let us all not forget that it all began by having a decent coach, getting hidden gems of players that were overlooked by most everybody else (European) and playing in a weak conference that and inflated their record. The current Zags would be a top end P5 conference team, they would not be one of the best teams in the country.
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They are 19-8 vs Top 25 in the last five years. Their run in the last six years is almost unmatched.
 

TurfGopher said:
Last season I watched about as many Gonzaga games as Gophers games because they had Suggs and they were fun to watch. The Gophs had glimmers of excellence but consistently disapointed.
With a new coach and a Lifetime fitness pickup game roster, I'm thinking this coming season will be similar. Its a shame Chet left the state for greener pastures but I cant blame him. It would have been similar to the Humphries era with him here. One star player and a bunch a scrubs force feeding him the ball. Its truly a NBA farm system for these high talent players and they need to showcase their abilities to cash in at the next level. So I guess I am going to watch more Zags basketball, even though I'd rather not pay attention to Jesuit private schools sports teams.
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The Lifetime pick up game is spot on.
 


Very good team. Few very good coach. Will he ever win it? Defense got exposed this year. A bunch of pro players and they couldn’t stop anyone. Some of that is on Few.
 




GopherWeatherGuy said:
As high school prospects, Chet is taller, a better ball handler, and a better shot blocker than Durant was in high school.
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Zion Williamson was the best HS prospect since LeBron, still not even in the same hemisphere as Durant as a pro.

Being an elite highschool player has some correlation (especially when you are top 5 in your class, but excuse me for calling someone that weighs 175 lbs and is taller than KG a potential miss
 


GopherND725 said:
l understand the frustration with losing top rated players to other programs but I just don’t understand the belittling of Gonzaga’s program & think it is a really bad look for our fan base. It doesn’t make sense for us as Gopher fans to make fun of a program that has made 2 of the last 5 National Championship games and continues to trend upwards as a program. I’d be thrilled to have the level of success that the Zags have had. Despite not playing in a P5 conference they are legitimately a top national program. I think many Gopher fans view the program as stronger than it is because we are a Big 10 school when our on court performance doesn’t merit that type of arrogance.
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I'm with you. I'm bummed that we've now had two top tier guys choose to play there....but there's no reason to rip on their program. Based on their recruiting rankings from the past several years....they are bound to be very good for a while if this continues.

With that said....just like this year....I'll be rooting for them to fall short of the championship.
 

Roland Brooks said:
Very good team. Few very good coach. Will he ever win it? Defense got exposed this year. A bunch of pro players and they couldn’t stop anyone. Some of that is on Few.
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I would bet that they win one the way that Few is pulling in top talent from around the country. They looked like the best team in the nation for the majority of the year. Baylor just had a gear that even the Zags couldn't match. But Baylor was also playing a damn near perfect game. Gonzaga will continue to dominate the WCC and pull top seeds....giving them a nice path to the final four. At that point they'll need to prove on the court that they either have the best talent....or that they are able to play a flawless game against another very good to great team.

There's an argument to be made that playing a soft schedule for 2/3rds of the year is a downside to playing at Gonzaga. Does that same team playing in a power conference better prepare themselves? Because they basically didn't have to do anything other than sleepwalk for two and a half straight months.
 

kix4kix said:
Zion Williamson was the best HS prospect since LeBron, still not even in the same hemisphere as Durant as a pro.

Being an elite highschool player has some correlation (especially when you are top 5 in your class, but excuse me for calling someone that weighs 175 lbs and is taller than KG a potential miss
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Zion was the 3rd highest ranked prospect in Duke's 2018 class, and was ranked 5th nationally. He wasn't the best HS prospect since LeBron. Durant was the 2nd highest ranked prospect in his class, behind Greg Oden. Chet is ranked higher than both coming out of high school.

Very few high school prospects have been ranked as high as Chet. He is a freak of nature and is unlike most other prospects. He could end up being a bust, but it's highly unlikely. He has dominated other top ranked prospects on the AAU trail. He will do things at Gonzaga that will make your jaw drop next season.
 

Roland Brooks said:
Very good team. Few very good coach. Will he ever win it? Defense got exposed this year. A bunch of pro players and they couldn’t stop anyone. Some of that is on Few.
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Both Gonzaga and Baylor had good basketball players. Baylor's were better athletes and brought the fight defensively. Gonzaga didn't have the guys that could do the same. It seems like they had to rely on their offense to compensate for the fact that they had some shortcomings due to their lack of athleticism. It caught up with them in the Final 4 when they faced two really good offensive teams. UCLA just didn't have the defensive tenacity to throw the knockout punch.
 

kix4kix said:
Zion Williamson was the best HS prospect since LeBron, still not even in the same hemisphere as Durant as a pro.

Being an elite highschool player has some correlation (especially when you are top 5 in your class, but excuse me for calling someone that weighs 175 lbs and is taller than KG a potential miss
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Feels like there are two very different conversations going on about Chet. I think it is pretty safe to assume he is going to be a very good college basketball player. You don't get rated that highly on accident. It is highly unlikely that he will not be a star player for Gonzaga next year.

That said, it is also foolish for some to be comparing Chet to some of the greatest to play the game like KG and Durant at this point. He certainly has a chance to end up in that league but he has a long way to go and a lot to prove.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I think it is pretty safe to assume he is going to be a very good college basketball player. You don't get rated that highly on accident. It is highly unlikely that he will not be a star player for Gonzaga next year.
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Would be curious to know the % of 5* rated recruits that did not go on to become star college players, taking out the ones who didn't make it because of off-court issues (injury, grades, trouble, whatever).

IE, the ones who just plain didn't live up to it on the court, even though clearly given the chance.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
I guess he's not a fan of "gritty" basketball. So there should be a lot of happy posters who only want gritty basketball players to play for the gophers.

Per Star Tribune:

Holmgren said Gonzaga's style of play was a big factor in the decision and also fits his long-term goal of eventually playing in the NBA.

"It's a perfect fit, the way they play in space and play with pace," he said. "I don't want to end up getting bogged down and stuck in the half-court stuff. I want to get out and run, get out and play fast. It's more of an NBA-type style of play, which I want to learn and excel at."
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If anything people should clamor for a style that resembles the NBA.
 

kix4kix said:
Zion Williamson was the best HS prospect since LeBron, still not even in the same hemisphere as Durant as a pro.

Being an elite highschool player has some correlation (especially when you are top 5 in your class, but excuse me for calling someone that weighs 175 lbs and is taller than KG a potential miss
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ZIon is having a better second year then Durant...
 

builtbadgers said:
Plus they were at least 12-1 against ranked teams and the 12 wins were all by double digits. The Gonzaga program is a great story.
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I would think the wear and tear of playing in the B1G would bring their record down a bit.
 


Roland Brooks said:
Very good team. Few very good coach. Will he ever win it? Defense got exposed this year. A bunch of pro players and they couldn’t stop anyone. Some of that is on Few.
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No doubt about it . You better be really good defensively if your going to run those 6 games.
 


TurfGopher said:
Last season I watched about as many Gonzaga games as Gophers games because they had Suggs and they were fun to watch. The Gophs had glimmers of excellence but consistently disapointed.
With a new coach and a Lifetime fitness pickup game roster, I'm thinking this coming season will be similar. Its a shame Chet left the state for greener pastures but I cant blame him. It would have been similar to the Humphries era with him here. One star player and a bunch a scrubs force feeding him the ball. Its truly a NBA farm system for these high talent players and they need to showcase their abilities to cash in at the next level. So I guess I am going to watch more Zags basketball, even though I'd rather not pay attention to Jesuit private schools sports teams.
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Yeah I watched quite a bit of Dawson Garcia, Kerwin Walton, and Suggs last year.
 

stocker08 said:
I'm with you. I'm bummed that we've now had two top tier guys choose to play there....but there's no reason to rip on their program. Based on their recruiting rankings from the past several years....they are bound to be very good for a while if this continues.

With that said....just like this year....I'll be rooting for them to fall short of the championship.
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Haha I'm the same way. Good for Suggs to play himself into a top 5 pick, but it was so sweet to watch Baylor destroy them. Very good chance Zags could be runner ups again next year
 

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