All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

Donate To GopherHole
Bob_Loblaw said:
You need to slow down a bit before you type.
Click to expand...
Not my style. I just blurt out a lot of stuff. Meh

Bob_Loblaw said:
#1 - Thielen was our clear #2 last year. He was second on the team in receptions, yards, and TDs.
#2 - Gladney wasn't kicked out of the league for beating up his Gf, he signed with the Cardinals after we cut him and he continued to suck there. He then passed away in an auto accident.
#3 - Gladney had character issues before we drafted him.
Click to expand...
Hockenson would've been #2 if here the whole season. Will be this year. Which is just fine.

KJ can and should slide into the role Theilen had last year, and get the next most targets.

We'll see what the kid can do.


Gladney went downhill because of the turmoil. Would've been a great player here and wasn't "sucking" here, thus you using "continued" is wrong.

Character issues is meaningless. Doesn't predict this sort of thing. Jalen Carter had character issues, he got a poor team manager and teammate killed by drag racing her.
 

Gophers_4life said:
"Control of the entire draft" is not being honest, and is no where near what I was implying.

Agree that Kwesi is the GM and the head of personnel decision making and thus the draft. KOC does not and should not have much of an opinion on defensive players ... he's strictly an offensive guy. He's just an OC who also has upjumped responsibilities of being the head coach. Thus, our DC would have the equivalent opinions on defense.


So it would simply go like this:

- if drafting an offensive player with the current pick: "Kevin, who do you want?"
- if drafting a defensive player with the current pick: "Brian, who do you want?"

And they should have drafted defense at 23.


And sure, I grant you fully that Kwesi will have an opinion at all positions and perhaps may have veto power on which direction to go at a spot and on the particular player at a spot. Sure
Click to expand...
It's nowhere near what you were implying? LOL. This is your quote: I simply would’ve said “Brian, who do you want? Done.” You not only implied it, you clearly stated it. It's a good decision to walk that one back too.

KOC should have an opinion on the entire roster construction and that opinion should be higher than Brian Flores' opinion, who reports into him.

Kwesi is the GM, he has more than just a veto position, it's his entire job to bring in talent. He should listen to KOC and Flores, but his career is on the line with each personnel decision.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It's nowhere near what you were implying? LOL. This is your quote: I simply would’ve said “Brian, who do you want? Done.” You not only implied it, you clearly stated it. It's a good decision to walk that one back too.
Click to expand...
Because it exactly fits with what I said above: when selecting a defensive player with that pick .....

I can't believe you honestly thought I was implying that literally Brian Flores would be running the entire draft and doing every pick.

That's just not honest. You're way too intelligent for me to buy that.

Bob_Loblaw said:
KOC should have an opinion on the entire roster construction and that opinion should be higher than Brian Flores' opinion, who reports into him.
Click to expand...
Disagree 100% when he's really nothing more than an upjumped offensive coordinator.

Bob_Loblaw said:
Kwesi is the GM, he has more than just a veto position, it's his entire job to bring in talent. He should listen to KOC and Flores, but his career is on the line with each personnel decision.
Click to expand...
Fair enough
 

Gophers_4life said:
Not my style. I just blurt out a lot of stuff. Meh


Hockenson would've been #2 if here the whole season. Will be this year. Which is just fine.

KJ can and should slide into the role Theilen had last year, and get the next most targets.

We'll see what the kid can do.


Gladney went downhill because of the turmoil. Would've been a great player here and wasn't "sucking" here, thus you using "continued" is wrong.

Character issues is meaningless. Doesn't predict this sort of thing. Jalen Carter had character issues, he got a poor team manager and teammate killed by drag racing her.
Click to expand...
Clearly, but you were wrong on every single point.

How do you know if Gladney went downhill after beating his GF? He had never shown any ability to play in the NFL. There are certainly guys who have beaten their GFs and then still were able to be good football players. Was it Zimmer's track record of drafting CBs that has you so confident that Gladney would have turned out even though he was awful?

As to saying character issues are meaningless for a guy you're saying didn't turn out because of character issues is just more of your blurting I guess. I'd take a minute and give that one a think.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Because it exactly fits with what I said above: when selecting a defensive player with that pick .....

I can't believe you honestly thought I was implying that literally Brian Flores would be running the entire draft and doing every pick.

That's just not honest. You're way too intelligent for me to buy that.


Disagree 100% when he's really nothing more than an upjumped offensive coordinator.


Fair enough
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's a terrible take that you've been saying over and over again here. Do you think people read that and thought "no way Gophers_4life could believe something that dumb?". You literally just typed that character issues wouldn't be indicative of future character issues.

KOC isn't an "upjumped offensive coordinator", he is our head coach. That's just something you made up.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, it's a terrible take that you've been saying over and over again here.
Click to expand...
I never said that, though.
Bob_Loblaw said:
You literally just typed that character issues wouldn't be indicative of future character issues.
Click to expand...
Never said that either.

I said that "character issues" can't predict that a guy is going to assault his gf. Which is obviously true.

Bob_Loblaw said:
KOC isn't an "upjumped offensive coordinator", he is our head coach.
Click to expand...
Both are correct.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Clearly, but you were wrong on every single point.
Click to expand...
I'm wrong a lot. Doesn't cost me a thing. If it provokes interesting conversation with people who are smarter than me and know more than me (most people, in most things), then I was entertained by Gopherhole and learned a thing or two.

Bob_Loblaw said:
How do you know if Gladney went downhill after beating his GF? He had never shown any ability to play in the NFL. There are certainly guys who have beaten their GFs and then still were able to be good football players. Was it Zimmer's track record of drafting CBs that has you so confident that Gladney would have turned out even though he was awful?
Click to expand...
I actually have no idea if Gladney would've been great, but there wasn't enough opportunity for him to prove otherwise. One rookie year is tough to judge how a guy would've gone.

I reject the year after because of the turmoil he went through. Can't prove it, just my guess.

Bob_Loblaw said:
As to saying character issues are meaningless for a guy you're saying didn't turn out because of character issues is just more of your blurting I guess. I'd take a minute and give that one a think.
Click to expand...
"Character issues" is like a 1 or 2. Assaulting your gf is 11. (Well OK, maybe murdering a guy is 11)

Not binary.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I would have been cool with Nolan Smith too, I just think OLB/DE is a much smaller need.

We currently have Hunter, Z. Smith, Davenport, and Wonnom. Even if they aren't ideal fits, all of them can play (even though I assume we dump Z. Smith).

I think the only point we disagree is that I don't think we absolutely needed to shoe-horn a defensive player into that pick. I don't think there was a CB I would have picked at that spot, and I don't think there was a DT worth the pick.

I think the best player at the biggest position of need was probably Addison.
Click to expand...
Fair enough

My simple, basic thing is: the defense was so awful, while the offense so good, that it had to be a defensive player. Didn't care which defensive player. Whomever Kewsi, KOC, and Flores wanted.

IE, I'll take the L and walk back my position to: I wish Wilf would've come on down from high and dictated that it had to be defense at 23, but take whomever they thought was best. That's what I would've forced to happen.

Others like "take best player available" approach, etc. Fine
 

Gophers_4life said:
Jefferson was drafted to replace clear #1, star receiver Stefan Diggs. That scenario certainly rises up to using a first rounder. Replacing a "decoy" receiver does not.

Gladney was going to be an All-Pro. Until he assaulted his girlfriend and got kicked out of the league for it. There was zero possible way to predict he was going to do that. Prove me wrong
Click to expand...
Why would you need another receiver when you had a receiver putting up close to 1000 yards and having 14 tds?

His name was Adam Theilen.

You know what, I'll be done with you. You talk out of both sides of your ass. Using your logic, all they needed was theilen, not two top flight receivers. So we needed to replace Diggs so we could have two top flight receivers. Do you ever listen to yourself?
 



kg21 said:
Why would you need another receiver when you had a receiver putting up close to 1000 yards and having 14 tds?

His name was Adam Theilen.
Click to expand...
You're not being honest.

Diggs was the star and the #1. Valid to use a first rounder to replace him.

kg21 said:
So we needed to replace Diggs so we could have two top flight receivers.
Click to expand...
Nope. We needed a #1 receiver, replacing the departing Diggs.

Using a first rounder for a #1 receiver is valid, in my book.
 

Gophers_4life said:
You're not being honest.

Diggs was the star and the #1. Valid to use a first rounder to replace him.


Nope. We needed a #1 receiver, replacing the departing Diggs.

Using a first rounder for a #1 receiver is valid, in my book.
Click to expand...
You now have 2 star receivers.

Just punt!
 





kg21 said:
You now have 2 star receivers.

Just punt!
Click to expand...
When I said you now have two star receivers, I was talking Theilen and drafting one in the first named JJ.

And yes, I'm being honest.
 



What did Meatsauce say about the draft. P.A. Remarks on the radio the mearsauce id the best nfl draft mind in the Midwest. Tho, when I hear Meatsauce mispronounce a name or mix up a school… I do wonder.
 


kg21 said:
It's never too early.

www.yahoo.com

2024 NFL mock draft: Early first-round projections

Is it ever too early to start talking about next year's draft?
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
Click to expand...
Love how the Arizona Cardinals picked up some serious draft capital for next year's draft as they navigated their way out and back into the top 10 this year. Houston's 1st and 3rd (the 1st could be very high) and Tennessee's 3rd. They could have 2 picks in the top 5 of the draft and who knows what happens with Kyler Murray this year.

Arizona could be epic bad this year, which sucks for former Gopher Nick Rallis, who steps in as the Cardinals' DC this year
 


Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Love how the Arizona Cardinals picked up some serious draft capital for next year's draft as they navigated their way out and back into the top 10 this year. Houston's 1st and 3rd (the 1st could be very high) and Tennessee's 3rd. They could have 2 picks in the top 5 of the draft and who knows what happens with Kyler Murray this year.

Arizona could be epic bad this year, which sucks for former Gopher Nick Rallis, who steps in as the Cardinals' DC this year
Click to expand...
If they get the top pick to draft Caleb Williams would Arizona be able to do it with Murray's contract?

If you're Williams, and you see Arizona has the 1st pick, would you even enter the draft?
 



Gopherguy0723 said:
Are Cook and Z. Smith on the team to start training camp?
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I think this has something to do with NFL salary cap rules. If players are released after June 1st, the cap hit is pro-rated over two years. If they're released before June 1st, the entire cap hit falls on the next season.

not quite sure how things work in the event of a trade. I do know that if a player is released after June 1st, they receive their full salary for the next season, so any team trading for Cook or Smith would have to (I believe) assume the full salary or work out some kind of a restructuring or extension.

again, I may be wrong. I did not major in "Salary Cap rules" in college.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I could be wrong, but I think this has something to do with NFL salary cap rules. If players are released after June 1st, the cap hit is pro-rated over two years. If they're released before June 1st, the entire cap hit falls on the next season.

again, I may be wrong. I did not major in "Salary Cap rules" in college.
Click to expand...
For Cook anyway, this is correct; cutting him now would be $6M hit. Cutting him post-June 1 would be $3M this year and $3M next year.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
If they get the top pick to draft Caleb Williams would Arizona be able to do it with Murray's contract?

If you're Williams, and you see Arizona has the 1st pick, would you even enter the draft?
Click to expand...
I don't think AZ is THAT much of a shitshow and even if the Cardinals hold the #1 pick, you don't know if they are going to keep it or trade it or whatever. I don't think that would remotely impact Williams' decision.

It all depends on how "generational" you think Williams is, if you're Arizona. This year for example, if Bryce Young were 6'-3, I would bet a month's salary that the Chicago Bears never trade that pick, and they would have moved off Fields in a minute.

We'll see how good Williams and the other draft QBs turn out 10-11 months from now. These things have a way of working themselves out.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I don't think AZ is THAT much of a shitshow and even if the Cardinals hold the #1 pick, you don't know if they are going to keep it or trade it or whatever. I don't think that would remotely impact Williams' decision.

It all depends on how "generational" you think Williams is, if you're Arizona. This year for example, if Bryce Young were 6'-3, I would bet a month's salary that the Chicago Bears never trade that pick, and they would have moved off Fields in a minute.

We'll see how good Williams and the other draft QBs turn out 10-11 months from now. These things have a way of working themselves out.
Click to expand...
No doubt about the Bears. Their QB stinks. Honestly, it's smart what they did. They're building the team up around their QB.

If they're bad, which is likely, then they can go after Williams next year, but Williams will have a better line to protect him.

If I'm Bidwell, then I'm tanking the season and drafting Williams. Murray isn't the answer, and he's a stranded asset. Move if you can, but you might be stuck with him. Plus, Arizona is going to be terrible this year. On paper, they're one of the 5 worst teams in the league. You might as well get the big time QB as a silver lining.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
No doubt about the Bears. Their QB stinks. Honestly, it's smart what they did. They're building the team up around their QB.

If they're bad, which is likely, then they can go after Williams next year, but Williams will have a better line to protect him.

If I'm Bidwell, then I'm tanking the season and drafting Williams. Murray isn't the answer, and he's a stranded asset. Move if you can, but you might be stuck with him. Plus, Arizona is going to be terrible this year. On paper, they're one of the 5 worst teams in the league. You might as well get the big time QB as a silver lining.
Click to expand...
Tanking may not even be an option, they don't even know how long Murray will be out this season. I've seen estimates he could miss at least half the season.

Gotta love the confidence in the kid they drafted in the 5th round. Who knows, Clayton Thune may have a firm grip on the starting position by the time Murray is ready. The Cardinals' only other QB I think is Jeff Driskell

Cardinals' Clayton Thune: "I think I'm the best QB in this class"

EDIT: The Cardinals do have David Blough and Colt McCoy on the roster as well apparently, but it's not like either of them are unbeatable at the position
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
No doubt about the Bears. Their QB stinks. Honestly, it's smart what they did. They're building the team up around their QB.

If they're bad, which is likely, then they can go after Williams next year, but Williams will have a better line to protect him.

If I'm Bidwell, then I'm tanking the season and drafting Williams. Murray isn't the answer, and he's a stranded asset. Move if you can, but you might be stuck with him. Plus, Arizona is going to be terrible this year. On paper, they're one of the 5 worst teams in the league. You might as well get the big time QB as a silver lining.
Click to expand...
If this were to transpire, the Cards would be dumb to not draft Williams. However, they seem like a highly incompetent organization, so not banking on them doing the smart thing. QB is such a starved position that somebody is taking Murray off their hands. Looking at an organization like Seattle, New England, etc. that pride themselves on taking guys that have some character/motivation issues and getting something out of them. The Cards may need to pay some of his salary, or include some picks, but somebody will take him off their hands.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom