All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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But in general, I very much agree that the 2023 Vikings offense is going to be "run it back" of the 2022 Vikings offense.

Defense .... well, it can't get much worse.

So we'll see what happens, in terms of W-L. Draw a more difficult schedule for off-divisions, of course.


I think the 2022 Vikings got all the karma/luck/bounces that were zapped away unfairly from the 2021 team. Without that, I think the 2022 team is more like 9-11 wins. And that seems right for 2023.


Hope 23 is the last year of Kirk. And then yes, the major major overhaul begins in 24.
 

Gophers_4life said:
We have KJ already, who is just fine.

Hock and JJ did not get open because of Thielen attracting defenders ...
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KJ is not even close to a number 2 receiver.

This offense could blow the doors off with a top talent receiver on the other side.

If KJ is number 2, I will cry!
 



on the draft, I think a lot depends on how they feel about some of the players returning from injury. If there are real questions about Booth, Evans and Cine, then I could definitely see the Vikes go with a CB. But, if they think those guys are going to be OK, then probably look to shore up a different position.
 




howeda7 said:
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Wait, what?

I could have sworn the woke crowd said the owners were "colluding" (the left loves that word) together to not make a deal for Lamar Jackson? Now there are multiple teams in on the chase. Huh....

There's absolutely zero chance the Vikings make a move for LJ8. Anyone acquiring Lamar would have to

- put over $200M or whatever his guaranteed salary demand is in escrow; few if any owners have the ability and interest to do something like this

- overhaul their offense entirely to suit Lamar

- secure a backup QB that also suits that offensive system

- be prepared for a QB who has missed the final Third of the season for 2 years in a row

- and finally, be enthusiastic about a QB who has won the same amount of playoff games in the last 5 years as John Wolford, Daniel Jones, and Case Keenum.

- and the obvious part about the two #1 draft picks, which isn't insurmountable.

No thanks. I'll pass.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Wait, what?

I could have sworn the woke crowd said the owners were "colluding" (the left loves that word) together to not make a deal for Lamar Jackson? Now there are multiple teams in on the chase. Huh....

There's absolutely zero chance the Vikings make a move for LJ8. Anyone acquiring Lamar would have to

- put over $200M or whatever his guaranteed salary demand is in escrow; few if any owners have the ability and interest to do something like this

- overhaul their offense entirely to suit Lamar

- secure a backup QB that also suits that offensive system

- be prepared for a QB who has missed the final Third of the season for 2 years in a row

- and finally, be enthusiastic about a QB who has won the same amount of playoff games in the last 5 years as John Wolford, Daniel Jones, and Case Keenum.

- and the obvious part about the two #1 draft picks, which isn't insurmountable.

No thanks. I'll pass.
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The really odd thing about that horrendous take is that 4 of the top 5 highest paid QBs are black (Murray, Mahomes, Watson, Wilson) with the lone exception on that list being Rodgers who is on a much shorter contract.

Maybe there is new interest in him because Lamar's camp realizes they aren't getting the $200 million guaranteed and the Ravens might be willing to trade him for less than the two firsts.

For the Vikes, it's an especially odd fit whenever you already have a generational level WR.
 



Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Wait, what?

I could have sworn the woke crowd said the owners were "colluding" (the left loves that word) together to not make a deal for Lamar Jackson?
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Shaleeze Mandsa young from yahoo wrote about it. If you want woke, read his work. Totally worthless.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The really odd thing about that horrendous take is that 4 of the top 5 highest paid QBs are black (Murray, Mahomes, Watson, Wilson) with the lone exception on that list being Rodgers who is on a much shorter contract.

Maybe there is new interest in him because Lamar's camp realizes they aren't getting the $200 million guaranteed and the Ravens might be willing to trade him for less than the two firsts.

For the Vikes, it's an especially odd fit whenever you already have a generational level WR.
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One of the most amusing parts of this equation is that this is literally the two months of the year where EVERYONE in the NFL is lying their asses off. They don't call it the "lying season" for nothing, and yet when a handful of teams immediately said they weren't going to be in on Lamar Jackson, everyone freaked the f'k out about it, screamed collusion, racism, you name it. Just incredible...
 


Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
One of the most amusing parts of this equation is that this is literally the two months of the year where EVERYONE in the NFL is lying their asses off. They don't call it the "lying season" for nothing, and yet when a handful of teams immediately said they weren't going to be in on Lamar Jackson, everyone freaked the f'k out about it, screamed collusion, racism, you name it. Just incredible...
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I wish they even had the balls to say that, they never do. It's like the Kendrick Perkins NBA MVP nonsense, they always do the whole "I'm not saying it's racism, but explain to me how blah blah blah blah". When they are clearly saying it's racism without having the balls to say it's racism.
 




I have clicked on some of her (?) articles and it’s f-ing ridiculous. Talent has nothing to do sports, just color.
 




kg21 said:
KJ is not even close to a number 2 receiver.

This offense could blow the doors off with a top talent receiver on the other side.

If KJ is number 2, I will cry!
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Nah. You’re just fishing for someone to argue with.

KJ now is better than Thielen now.

Thielen didn’t often significantly contribute to an offense that won 13 games.


Therefore, no reason to think that anyone else of KJ/Thielen ability wouldn’t do the same.


Objectively awful if a WR is chosen with the first round pick.
 

Gophers_4life said:
So we'll see what happens, in terms of W-L. Draw a more difficult schedule for off-divisions, of course.


I think the 2022 Vikings got all the karma/luck/bounces that were zapped away unfairly from the 2021 team. Without that, I think the 2022 team is more like 9-11 wins. And that seems right for 2023.
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That's exactly why somehow being 13-4 while being giving up more points than scoring as well as being 11-0 in games being decided by 8 points was "remarkable".

It is highly unlikely to be repeatable.
 

Ope3 said:
That's exactly why somehow being 13-4 while being giving up more points than scoring as well as being 11-0 in games being decided by 8 points was "remarkable".

It is highly unlikely to be repeatable.
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Remarkable, yes.

Valid basis as a predictor, no.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Remarkable, yes.

Valid basis as a predictor, no.
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I am sure it did factor into why a 13-4 team (Vikings) was only favored by less than a FG (2.5 pts) to a team that was 9-7-1 (Giants) despite Home Field advantage.

As for the future, it's also why I tend to think that best case they will be in the 9-11 win range in 2023, just as you have laid out.
 

Ope3 said:
I am sure it did factor into why a 13-4 team (Vikings) was only favored by less than a FG (2.5 pts) to a team that was 9-7-1 (Giants) despite Home Field advantage.

As for the future, it's also why I tend to think that best case they will be in the 9-11 win range in 2023, just as you have laid out.
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My basis is that we got incredibly unlucky in 2021 and then got all that luck back in one lump sum payment in 2022.

Has nothing to do with summations of point margins over completely independent events (each week’s game).
 

Gophers_4life said:
My basis is that we got incredibly unlucky in 2021 and then got all that luck back in one lump sum payment in 2022.

Has nothing to do with summations of point margins over completely independent events (each week’s game).
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All that luck was a large reason why they went 11-0 in games decided by a TD or less. If they had gone 8-3 (still favorable in the "luck" department) they would have been 11-8 and right in the range that you are forecasting for 2023. Obviously, one would expect some regression to the mean.

Additionally it would be reflective a team that scores roughly the same amount of points that it gives up.

I don't really believe karma carries over from year to year, especially one with a coaching change from 2021 to 2022. Some was fortunate bounces, for sure, but also confidence and preparation plays an impact on making plays during winning time. That was what was remarkable. They did it week after week.

In world with Purple Colored glasses, the goal would be to increase the scoring margin and not have so many close games to begin with. That as well as hope the Lions experience some growing pains and the Packers don't have a HoF signal caller for yet a 4th decade.
 
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Gophers_4life said:
Nah. You’re just fishing for someone to argue with.

KJ now is better than Thielen now.

Thielen didn’t often significantly contribute to an offense that won 13 games.


Therefore, no reason to think that anyone else of KJ/Thielen ability wouldn’t do the same.


Objectively awful if a WR is chosen with the first round pick.
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Disagree I don't think KJ is a WR 2, would be nice to have another good WR we run a lot of 11 personnel. I could see us splitting out Hock, JJ, and KJ with Oliver on the LOS though.
 


BigGopher69 said:
Disagree I don't think KJ is a WR 2, would be nice to have another good WR we run a lot of 11 personnel. I could see us splitting out Hock, JJ, and KJ with Oliver on the LOS though.
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Again, KJ is no worse than Thielen, and they won 13 games.

Sure, grab some other decent but affordable free-agent.

Also agree with splitting out Hock in 12 pers. That could be a really nice grouping for us.
 

Ope3 said:
All that luck was a large reason why they went 11-0 in games decided by a TD or less. If they had gone 8-3 (still favorable in the "luck" department) they would have been 11-8 and right in the range that you are forecasting for 2023. Obviously, one would expect some regression to the mean.

Additionally it would be reflective a team that scores roughly the same amount of points that it gives up.

I don't really believe karma carries over from year to year, especially one with a coaching change from 2021 to 2022. Some was fortunate bounces, for sure, but also confidence and preparation plays an impact on making plays during winning time. That was what was remarkable. They did it week after week.

In world with Purple Colored glasses, the goal would be to increase the scoring margin and not have so many close games to begin with. That as well as hope the Lions experience some growing pains and the Packers don't have a HoF signal caller for yet a 4th decade.
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Agree that luck doesn’t carry over. Just amazing to lose so many close ones and then win so many close ones.

All that means is your defense sucks. No matter how many points you score, your defense can’t stop the other team’s urgency when they hit on plays (and don’t stop themselves).

Cannot be used as a valid basis for a predictor of W-L. As 2021 then 2022 proves. Can go either way. Which is my point.


Obviously more margin is better for the same number of wins, but I’d rather have more wins than more margin in general.

It can’t be used as anything other than a “that’s remarkable!” thing.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Again, KJ is no worse than Thielen, and they won 13 games.

Sure, grab some other decent but affordable free-agent.

Also agree with splitting out Hock in 12 pers. That could be a really nice grouping for us.
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I didn't think Thielen was a good #2 last year, two high caliber guys like Chase and Higgins would be nice
 


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