All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

Gophers_4life

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In addition to the defense that’s already been discussed, I’ve seen enough of Jalen Reagor to cut him. Dude’s a bum.
I had hopes for this guy, and I feel like he wasn't really given a chance. He had that one bad muff that nearly was a turnover ... but it wasn't. And I think that was just really bad timing to have his only(?) one?

If we get rid of Thiel, I think Reagor should be given a chance to compete for Theil's spot. Nailor had those two TD's in garbage time against GB, so maybe he gets it instead. Nothing wrong with competition and he (Reagor) is cheap.
 

Gophers_4life

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They’ll take a $12.5mil dead cap hit in 2024 if they don’t extend him. Which means if they don’t want to extend him again, they’ll have to draft a QB on a rookie deal in 23 or 24 (or find a cheap retread and hope they overperform, ala Genius Smith) to make up for the cap hit.
If Brock Purdy can be a Super Bowl QB, then I feel like we can roll with Nick Mullens for a year.
 

Gophers_4life

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Also, Irv Smith Jr finished his rookie four years and is now an UFA? Should we try to sign him cheap? Had the unfortunate drop that would've been a first down, but then had the TD.
 


Gopherwatcher

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They’ll take a $12.5mil dead cap hit in 2024 if they don’t extend him. Which means if they don’t want to extend him again, they’ll have to draft a QB on a rookie deal in 23 or 24 (or find a cheap retread and hope they overperform, ala Genius Smith) to make up for the cap hit.
Yeah, his contract is definitely an albatross on this team. He is a good QB, no doubt, but with all of the guaranteed money that he was given, at some point the Vikings are going to have to bite the bullet and take the dead cap hit. Extending him just kicks the can down the road.

The Vikings are a team that just refuses to ever go into full-rebuild mode. That's a problem because they are stuck in mediocrity for what seems like a decade. The last couple of drafts and contract extensions under Spielman really screwed this team for the next 3-5 years, and Kwesi's draft last year was not great in Year 1. Maybe his picks will pan out, but they didn't offer much help this season. Ed Ingram was serviceable as a guard. Hopefully he continues to improve. Asamoah shined at times and seems to have the speed and knack for making plays. Cine and Booth really offered nothing this year. That's tough when your first and second round picks don't make an impact. We will see if they can come back from injury and actually help the team. If they can, then it will be like getting two bonus picks for next season.... And I think Cine will have to because I believe that Harrison will be a cap casualty unless he restructures his deal.
 


jamiche

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Oh, and Bynum sucks balls.
In the last week or so you pronounced D'Angelo Russell a "turd" on another thread. Now Bynum "sucks balls." Yesterday you thought you were shedding new light on the Mauer contract on a Twins thread. You come across as a frustrated 17 year old working on a second or third Grain Belt that you snuck out of your parents' fridge.

If you act like, maybe, a 23 year old people might take you more seriously.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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The Vikings strategy should be to draft as many players from the Georgia and Alabama defenses as possible.
 

howeda7

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i think if we paid all of our money to one player, say the 10th best QB in the league, and have no money left for other decent players, that we have the best chance of winning. The game of football is always and always has been a 1-person sport.
They're stuck between a rock and hard place at QB. I was in favor of trading Cousins and getting someone like Mariota as a bridge as Atlanta tried to do. But he still cost $20 million and wasn't very good. You're better off with Cousins at $35 million. Drafting a QB outside the top 10 is a crap shoot, but guys like Shanahan can turn 7th round picks into play-off winners. Hopefully O'Connell can too. We certainly need to draft one next year and start the process.
 

howeda7

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Here's a great website to see the cap numbers for the roster.


Peterson - Free Agent - Only was a $3.5 million cap hit this past season.
Kendricks - Will cost you $1.5 million in dead cap and save you $9.5 million. GUARANTEED CUT
Smith - Cut after June 1 will cost about $3.9 million in dead cap and save $15 million in cap, but still cost $7.8 million in 2024.
Hunter - Will cost you $7 million and save you $5, BUT would then cost $11 million in cap in 2024. CANNOT AFFORD TO CUT.
Thielen - Would cost you $6.5 in dead cap this year and save you $13 million. and another $7 million in dead cap in 2024.

At least that's how I interpret those numbers.

I hate to say it but Spielman REALLY mortgaged the future the last two years. We will be in cap purgatory for a couple of seasons unfortunately AND Jefferson becomes eligible for an extension this off-season. OUCH.

I EDITED AND UPDATED THE ABOVE INFORMATION AFTER LOOKING A LITTLE LONGER AT THE SITE.
Thielen, Kendricks and Cook should be gone. Hunter is either back or traded if we're sticking with 3-4 (I hope we ditch it.) Harrison Smith is a tougher call because the savings are that great. Maybe keep him one more year.
 



JimmyJamesMD

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Thielen, Kendricks and Cook should be gone. Hunter is either back or traded if we're sticking with 3-4 (I hope we ditch it.) Harrison Smith is a tougher call because the savings are that great. Maybe keep him one more year.
Smith is a smart player. If they want to be competitive, id keep him.

I don't care about the dead cap of Kendricks, cook, or theilen. You can get guys to fill their positions at a vets minimum. They are nothing but replacement level players at this point. Cook might still be a little dynamic, but running back is easy to fill.

In summary, vikes shouldn't be concerned about the dead cap space of those 3
 

kg21

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In the last week or so you pronounced D'Angelo Russell a "turd" on another thread. Now Bynum "sucks balls." Yesterday you thought you were shedding new light on the Mauer contract on a Twins thread. You come across as a frustrated 17 year old working on a second or third Grain Belt that you snuck out of your parents' fridge.

If you act like, maybe, a 23 year old people might take you more seriously.
DLO, Mauer, and Bynum all suck and or sucked on their contracts.

Stealing money should be an offense.

Also, I am going to pay way more attention to your posts, because I can't for the life think of one thing you've ever posted. I'm taking this as a badge of honor from you that you remember mine. Maybe you remember them because all three are correct.

If I were a far left democrat, you wouldn't have said shit. Meet me on the politics board.
 
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short ornery norwegian

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Ultimately, the real issue here is that the Wilfs handcuffed the new HC and GM by telling them "no rebuild - we expect a contending team."

we saw the result - a roster with a number of talented players, but also with some glaring weaknesses.

and now, the Vikes go into the off-season with:
--only 4 picks in the '23 draft
--serious salary cap issues
--and lots of holes to fill

unless the Wilfs change their mind and allow a total rebuild, I expect a few of the veterans to get cut/released, and replaced with cheap free-agents or undrafted college free-agents.

If I was running the show, I'd do what the Bears did. gut the roster, try to get one of the top draft picks, and go after the best QB available in the draft.
 

forever a gopher

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I had hopes for this guy, and I feel like he wasn't really given a chance. He had that one bad muff that nearly was a turnover ... but it wasn't. And I think that was just really bad timing to have his only(?) one?

If we get rid of Thiel, I think Reagor should be given a chance to compete for Theil's spot. Nailor had those two TD's in garbage time against GB, so maybe he gets it instead. Nothing wrong with competition and he (Reagor) is cheap.
Reagor had those two deep balls he completely gave up on against Indy, one ending up being an interception. He is a backup, and should be fighting and hustling to see the field. When he does get the chance to play, he’s taking plays off and leading to turnovers. That alone tells me what kind of dude he is. The muffed punt is icing on the cake. Philly gave up on their first round pick really early for not much compensation. That should be a red flag right off the bat.

The Vikes held on to Treadwell longer for goodness sakes, and he was worthless.
 



Iceland12

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Yeah, his contract is definitely an albatross on this team. He is a good QB, no doubt, but with all of the guaranteed money that he was given, at some point the Vikings are going to have to bite the bullet and take the dead cap hit. Extending him just kicks the can down the road.

The Vikings are a team that just refuses to ever go into full-rebuild mode. That's a problem because they are stuck in mediocrity for what seems like a decade.
Looking at it from a fan's perspective sure that's a problem.

Looking at it as a business? That doesn't seem to be a problem for the Wilfs. The TV contract generates most of their revenue and even with all the complaining about their performance on the field, they sellout every game.

Local radio and TV money is probably a small % of their revenue. Doubtful that is affected by how they play either.

The only worry they have is people not showing-up at US Bank which so far, even in a down year, hasn't been a problem.
 
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forever a gopher

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Looking at it from a fan's perspective sure that's a problem.

Looking at it as a business? That doesn't seem to be a problem for the Wilfs. The TV contract generates most of their revenue and even with all the complaining about their performance on the field, they sellout every game.

Local radio and TV money is probably a small % of their revenue. Doubtful that is affected by how they play either.

The only worry they have is people not showing-up at US Bank which so far, even in a down year, hasn't been a problem.
I would argue the opposite. They want the team to be competitive every year. Be in the news, be talked about. Keep people interested. A Super Bowl brings prestige, but long term probably not a bunch of increased value. I would venture a guess if they were given an option where the Vikes either A. Win 9-10 games every year, but don’t advance out of the second round of the playoffs, or B. Win 4-6 games each year for 5 years, come out of nowhere and win the Super Bowl in year 6, then go back to winning 4-6 games. They’d take option A every time. The team is an investment first, a hobby/job second.
 

Iceland12

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I would argue the opposite. They want the team to be competitive every year. Be in the news, be talked about. Keep people interested. A Super Bowl brings prestige, but long term probably not a bunch of increased value. I would venture a guess if they were given an option where the Vikes either A. Win 9-10 games every year, but don’t advance out of the second round of the playoffs, or B. Win 4-6 games each year for 5 years, come out of nowhere and win the Super Bowl in year 6, then go back to winning 4-6 games. They’d take option A every time. The team is an investment first, a hobby/job second.

You're arguing a different premise. One where you create an automatc Super Bowl win. A premise that is a little too fanciful for me. Probably not for the Wilfs either.

Unless someone is willing to give a Herscel Walker like trade for Kirk Cousins.😇

What I was talking about was what matters most to them now and in the immediate future. That's keeping the business and money they're making rolling along.
 
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howeda7

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Ultimately, the real issue here is that the Wilfs handcuffed the new HC and GM by telling them "no rebuild - we expect a contending team."

we saw the result - a roster with a number of talented players, but also with some glaring weaknesses.

and now, the Vikes go into the off-season with:
--only 4 picks in the '23 draft
--serious salary cap issues
--and lots of holes to fill

unless the Wilfs change their mind and allow a total rebuild, I expect a few of the veterans to get cut/released, and replaced with cheap free-agents or undrafted college free-agents.

If I was running the show, I'd do what the Bears did. gut the roster, try to get one of the top draft picks, and go after the best QB available in the draft.
I don't think "full rebuild" is necessary in the NFL. The Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, Chiefs etc. have never really tanked in the last 20 years. Heck the Steelers have never even finished below .500 under Mike Tomlin. Smart drafting and free agent $ allocation is required whether your picking 2nd or 20th.
 

kg21

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I don't think "full rebuild" is necessary in the NFL. The Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, Chiefs etc. have never really tanked in the last 20 years. Heck the Steelers have never even finished below .500 under Mike Tomlin. Smart drafting and free agent $ allocation is required whether your picking 2nd or 20th.
This is correct.

We simply haven't drafted anyone on the defensive side of the ball. It's really that simple.

Since Danielle Hunter was drafted 8 years ago, Trae Waynes has been our best defensive pick.
 
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#2Gopher

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I mean, well, Cousins and JJ & friends did do exactly that in 2022. 13 wins ... they did bail us out .... except when it really mattered. :(

13 wins is 13 wins. I somehow fear that will just make the Wilfs feel vindicated.
Wilfs want to win. I disagree with that statement.
 


Ogee Ogilthorpe

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Wilfs want to win. I disagree with that statement.

It's not so much that the Wilfs want to win, they just don't want to lose. No owner does.

The notion that any team should/would "tank" is just stupid and laughable, and really idiotic. Players and coaches are playing for their jobs, their careers. The owners? They're running a business, and a huge part of that business is predicated on being relevant.

For the Wilfs, this season was a huge success; 13-4 record, a packed house for home games, a HOME playoff game, an NFC North title. What more could they want?

People have short memories apparently. This franchise fired their GM and their HC, both longtime Vikings staff members. You don't do that when things are going awesome. KAM and KOC come in, deliver a season like this? What more could any reasonable fan possibly want in Year 1?
 

Gopherwatcher

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It's not so much that the Wilfs want to win, they just don't want to lose. No owner does.

The notion that any team should/would "tank" is just stupid and laughable, and really idiotic. Players and coaches are playing for their jobs, their careers. The owners? They're running a business, and a huge part of that business is predicated on being relevant.

For the Wilfs, this season was a huge success; 13-4 record, a packed house for home games, a HOME playoff game, an NFC North title. What more could they want?

People have short memories apparently. This franchise fired their GM and their HC, both longtime Vikings staff members. You don't do that when things are going awesome. KAM and KOC come in, deliver a season like this? What more could any reasonable fan possibly want in Year 1?
Oh, no short memory. Just looking forward from a cap perspective. Going into the off-season with their current contracts. The Vikings are $8 million over the cap for next year with only 41 players under contract for next year. I'm saying that they will need to make some major moves this off-season that will completely gut this roster let alone add defensive pieces.

As for just doing what the Ravens, Steelers, Patriots, Chiefs, I wish it was that easy. The Ravens had Ozzie Newsome running the draft for 22 years who is one of the best drafting GMs of the past 20 years. Steelers had Roethlisberger for how many of those years who was the perfect QB to run Tomlin's offenses. The Patriots? Brady and Belichek? The Chiefs finished 2-14 in 2012 and had the #1 pick in the draft, so they did tank.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher

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With only 4 picks, the Vikings should trade down. If trading down 2 or 3 spots can get them into the 2nd round, it would be worth it.
 

forever a gopher

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It's not so much that the Wilfs want to win, they just don't want to lose. No owner does.

The notion that any team should/would "tank" is just stupid and laughable, and really idiotic. Players and coaches are playing for their jobs, their careers. The owners? They're running a business, and a huge part of that business is predicated on being relevant.

For the Wilfs, this season was a huge success; 13-4 record, a packed house for home games, a HOME playoff game, an NFC North title. What more could they want?

People have short memories apparently. This franchise fired their GM and their HC, both longtime Vikings staff members. You don't do that when things are going awesome. KAM and KOC come in, deliver a season like this? What more could any reasonable fan possibly want in Year 1?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think anybody is suggesting that a team “tanks” in the purest sense. We all know with incentives and future contracts, no player or coach will intentionally lose. Rather, at least when I refer to “tanking”, it’s figuring out you’re in a crap situation, and righting it, even if that means taking your lumps from a W/L perspective one year. The Vikes are in a crap situation with the least salary cap space in the NFL this season, and turned all that money into a 31st overall and 29th ranked scoring defense.

The contracts they have are way too expensive for what you’re getting. Cut/trade anybody you need to, take a big dead cap hit in 2023, knowing it won’t be as good as 2022 from a W/L perspective. The byproduct is higher picks in 2024, but that’s not really the intent, just a happy byproduct. Instead of stringing along these crap contracts, get rid of them all at once and let your new GM go to town. With Cousins and Jefferson, they’re not getting the no.1 pick in 2024 with this strategy. Get rid of contracts, get a top-12ish pick and set yourself up for a brighter future. You can only do this when you’re telling your GM they have time and you’re not going to fire them. Spielman didn’t have this, and that’s why we’re here.
 

GophersInIowa

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This is correct.

We simply haven't drafted anyone on the defensive side of the ball. It's really that simple.

Since Danielle Hunter was drafted 8 years ago, Trae Waynes has been our best defensive pick.
I looked it up knowing it was bad but yikes it is really bad. Got Kendricks and Hunter in 2015 and then very little on defense since. Some nice role players but that’s it.

The franchise will feel the effects of Zimmer for awhile.
 

kg21

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I looked it up knowing it was bad but yikes it is really bad. Got Kendricks and Hunter in 2015 and then very little on defense since. Some nice role players but that’s it.

The franchise will feel the effects of Zimmer for awhile.
This was with Zimmer as a defensive guru being in on the drafting.

You can't cover for that with free agent signings.

Not many people realize how bad the defensive drafting has been.
 

Gopherguy0723

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Cut:
Kendricks
Hicks
H. Smith
Z. Smith
Cook
Thielen
Ham

You lose almost no production, save some money, and start addressing the cap now.

The offense can still be dynamic with what's left. Cook is easy to replace. Thielen isn't hard to replace either, especially if they draft a WR in Round 1.

So, in 2023 you can have a good offense, a horrible defense (so remain even with 2022), and then have a chance to set the defense straight for 2024.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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i think if we paid all of our money to one player, say the 10th best QB in the league, and have no money left for other decent players, that we have the best chance of winning. The game of football is always and always has been a 1-person sport.
Kirk Cousins will be the 10th highest paid QB in the league. This narrative was true a few years ago, it's not true anymore.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Cut:
Kendricks
Hicks
H. Smith
Z. Smith
Cook
Thielen
Ham

You lose almost no production, save some money, and start addressing the cap now.

The offense can still be dynamic with what's left. Cook is easy to replace. Thielen isn't hard to replace either, especially if they draft a WR in Round 1.

So, in 2023 you can have a good offense, a horrible defense (so remain even with 2022), and then have a chance to set the defense straight for 2024.
Troy Williamson?
 

kg21

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Cut:
Kendricks
Hicks
H. Smith
Z. Smith
Cook
Thielen
Ham

You lose almost no production, save some money, and start addressing the cap now.

The offense can still be dynamic with what's left. Cook is easy to replace. Thielen isn't hard to replace either, especially if they draft a WR in Round 1.

So, in 2023 you can have a good offense, a horrible defense (so remain even with 2022), and then have a chance to set the defense straight for 2024.
They want to sign Jefferson this offseason. Most of that money saved will go to him.

We are in no mans land
 




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