All Things 2022 Minnesota High School Football Thread

short ornery norwegian

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there have been some limited cases where teams have been allowed to play 'below' their listed class during the regular season.

I know of a couple cases where a program was really struggling. they went to their district committee and petitioned to play an 'easier' schedule. in one case, a team that was AA by enrollment was allowed to play an A schedule, because the program was getting beaten so badly that kids weren't going out and the program was on the verge of folding.

But, that has to be approved by the district committee.

other schools in that position have decided to not field a varsity team and just play JV games for a year or two while they try to improve their numbers.

IMHO, that is one of the biggest issues facing HS FB in MN. it's not the teams at the top - it's the teams at the bottom that are facing a decision between consolidation or not fielding a team.
 

disco

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Brainerd is already 6a
Brainerd should probably play a schedule consisting of some NW suburb 6a schools and some 5a schools that are lower travel times.


Right now the MSHSL doesn’t let you play a mixed class schedule.
Those two are 5a schedules even though they are 6a.
So the only other 6a team they play is each other.

The fact that Brainerd can go 7-1 and end up a 7 seed tells you everything you need to know about the scheduling model.
Right now Burnsville is 2-1 but even if they go 7-1 they’re at best the 6 seed in their section due to how wonky the schedule is. I don’t think that’ll be an issue as they won’t go 7-1.
But you could have 7-1 Burnsville seeded behind a 1-7 Edina.
I didn't realize Brainerd is a 6A school, but you are right. They lost to Minnetonka in the playoffs last year. Moorhead is still a 5A school.

I agree, if the MSHSL was consistent (and we all know they never are), then Brainerd should be slotted to play schools like Anoka, Blaine Osseo etc. And realistically, that's probably not much longer a drive than to Moorhead or Bemidji or some of the other places they play.
 

disco

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there have been some limited cases where teams have been allowed to play 'below' their listed class during the regular season.

I know of a couple cases where a program was really struggling. they went to their district committee and petitioned to play an 'easier' schedule. in one case, a team that was AA by enrollment was allowed to play an A schedule, because the program was getting beaten so badly that kids weren't going out and the program was on the verge of folding.

But, that has to be approved by the district committee.

other schools in that position have decided to not field a varsity team and just play JV games for a year or two while they try to improve their numbers.

IMHO, that is one of the biggest issues facing HS FB in MN. it's not the teams at the top - it's the teams at the bottom that are facing a decision between consolidation or not fielding a team.
I can't imagine a lot of those sized schools would have enough players to field a JV team though.
 

State of Football

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I didn't realize Brainerd is a 6A school, but you are right. They lost to Minnetonka in the playoffs last year. Moorhead is still a 5A school.

I agree, if the MSHSL was consistent (and we all know they never are), then Brainerd should be slotted to play schools like Anoka, Blaine Osseo etc. And realistically, that's probably not much longer a drive than to Moorhead or Bemidji or some of the other places they play.
What if Brainerd doesn’t want to do so? The post season is one game for half the teams. For some, 8 games during the regular season is their priority. Driving to the cities every other week May. It be desirable or cost effective.
Remember that the the MSHSL is a member school organization governed by a Board of 22 members that have 4 year term. It’s not a perfect organization but is driven by its 600 plus member schools. Roughly 365 football teams. 300 plus could care less about the 32 6A teams.
 

Some guy

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there have been some limited cases where teams have been allowed to play 'below' their listed class during the regular season.

I know of a couple cases where a program was really struggling. they went to their district committee and petitioned to play an 'easier' schedule. in one case, a team that was AA by enrollment was allowed to play an A schedule, because the program was getting beaten so badly that kids weren't going out and the program was on the verge of folding.

But, that has to be approved by the district committee.

other schools in that position have decided to not field a varsity team and just play JV games for a year or two while they try to improve their numbers.

IMHO, that is one of the biggest issues facing HS FB in MN. it's not the teams at the top - it's the teams at the bottom that are facing a decision between consolidation or not fielding a team.
Yup.
What if Brainerd doesn’t want to do so? The post season is one game for half the teams. For some, 8 games during the regular season is their priority. Driving to the cities every other week May. It be desirable or cost effective.
Remember that the the MSHSL is a member school organization governed by a Board of 22 members that have 4 year term. It’s not a perfect organization but is driven by its 600 plus member schools. Roughly 365 football teams. 300 plus could care less about the 32 6A teams.
what if Hopkins doesn’t want to?
 



disco

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What if Brainerd doesn’t want to do so? The post season is one game for half the teams. For some, 8 games during the regular season is their priority. Driving to the cities every other week May. It be desirable or cost effective.
Remember that the the MSHSL is a member school organization governed by a Board of 22 members that have 4 year term. It’s not a perfect organization but is driven by its 600 plus member schools. Roughly 365 football teams. 300 plus could care less about the 32 6A teams.
I just looked at their schedule. It's kind of a moot point, because they are already playing a bunch of metro/exurban schools. Here's their schedule.

@Coon Rapids
Andover
@Moorhead
Sartell
Bemidji
Alexandria
@Rogers
Buffalo

But to answer your question. It doesn't matter if they WANT to or not. The MSHSL sets all football schedules centrally. That's what district football IS. It's because certain schools didn't WANT to play others that we ended up with the elimination of conferences, rivalries and the system we have now.

And as stated before, 6A schools aren't supposed to be playing lower classes, so I don't know why Brainerd is the exception.
 

Some guy

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I just looked at their schedule. It's kind of a moot point, because they are already playing a bunch of metro/exurban schools. Here's their schedule.

@Coon Rapids
Andover
@Moorhead
Sartell
Bemidji
Alexandria
@Rogers
Buffalo

But to answer your question. It doesn't matter if they WANT to or not. The MSHSL sets all football schedules centrally. That's what district football IS. It's because certain schools didn't WANT to play others that we ended up with the elimination of conferences, rivalries and the system we have now.

And as stated before, 6A schools aren't supposed to be playing lower classes, so I don't know why Brainerd is the exception.
I am against the 6a district

But if it exists it is absolutely stupid 2 teams that would beat Hopkins by 20 are excluded
 

disco

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I am against the 6a district

But if it exists it is absolutely stupid 2 teams that would beat Hopkins by 20 are excluded
What do you mean you're "against the district?"
And which two teams? Brainerd and ?

Not being antagonistic - I'm just trying to get what you are saying.
 



Some guy

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What do you mean you're "against the district?"
And which two teams? Brainerd and ?

Not being antagonistic - I'm just trying to get what you are saying.
Coon rapids and Brainerd


I am against 6a teams only being allowed to play other 6a teams
 

Schnauzer

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It looks like Eden Prairie will only get to enjoy one cup of coffee as the number 1 ranked team. Rosemount with the big win tonight.
 


disco

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Coon rapids and Brainerd


I am against 6a teams only being allowed to play other 6a teams
So as far as I can tell, your issue is that CR and Brainerd play an entire 5A schedule except each other, but are 6A for playoff purposes, when there are terrible programs like Hopkins, who play a full 6A schedule?

FWIW, I was opposed to creating the 6A class. And I detest that everything has an "A" It should just be class A, B, C, D, E, F, 9-man
 



Gophers_4life

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I just looked up the enrollment numbers again. These are the adjusted numbers from the MSHSL, so I assume that takes into account the whole reduced lunch thing, which is a debate in and of itself.

Far as I can tell, Coon Rapids is the only school that should be 6A by enrollment, that is playing below their level. That could change of course for 2023-24. They've been replaced at the big school level by Totino Grace, which is playing WAY above their enrollment level. They're smaller in enrollment than schools like Cloquet, Delano, Red Wing and Worthington.

The enrollment cutoff at this point, which will change next year, has Lakeville North the smallest school in 6A at 1780. The next school on the list is Brainerd at 1752. Which brings up an interesting question. Suppose an outstate school (Brainerd and Moorhead are the two most likely) leapfrogs their way into 6A based on enrollment. Will the MSHSL slot them with the Wayzatas and Eden Prairies of the world? Will a school like Park Cottage Grove have to bus 4 hours to Moorhead to play a game? Will every away game for Moorhead be an 8 hour round trip?

For discussion purposes, here's a link to the official enrollment numbers.

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default...llments-for-2021-22-and-2022-23-by-enroll.pdf
6A should only be allowed to be metro schools. Brainerd and Moorhead would stand no chance, same with Duluth unless they combined both remaining (public) high schools into a single program. Rochester another maybe, but again because they have three public high schools they keep enrollment per school down.
 

Gophers_4life

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So as far as I can tell, your issue is that CR and Brainerd play an entire 5A schedule except each other, but are 6A for playoff purposes, when there are terrible programs like Hopkins, who play a full 6A schedule?

FWIW, I was opposed to creating the 6A class. And I detest that everything has an "A" It should just be class A, B, C, D, E, F, 9-man
Wisconsin does it like the NCAA style, with DI, DII, etc. They also don't have 9man. You play "real" football (11 man), or you combine to get the numbers you need.

I frankly doubt any of the 9man programs couldn't play 11man just as well as 1A programs.
 


MNfootballfan

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Wisconsin does it like the NCAA style, with DI, DII, etc. They also don't have 9man. You play "real" football (11 man), or you combine to get the numbers you need.

I frankly doubt any of the 9man programs couldn't play 11man just as well as 1A programs.
The good 9 man teams could play just as well as 1A. Well over 50% of them struggle to find 9 players that deserve to be on a varsity football field - that is just size and age... not even considering skill.
 

MNVCGUY

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Rosemount at Lakeville South next week.
Rosemount has gone to a 3 back, wishbone set a lot this year on offense. Over under on pass attempts in that game might be somewhere around 10 combined between the two teams.
 

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there have been some limited cases where teams have been allowed to play 'below' their listed class during the regular season.

I know of a couple cases where a program was really struggling. they went to their district committee and petitioned to play an 'easier' schedule. in one case, a team that was AA by enrollment was allowed to play an A schedule, because the program was getting beaten so badly that kids weren't going out and the program was on the verge of folding.

But, that has to be approved by the district committee.

other schools in that position have decided to not field a varsity team and just play JV games for a year or two while they try to improve their numbers.

IMHO, that is one of the biggest issues facing HS FB in MN. it's not the teams at the top - it's the teams at the bottom that are facing a decision between consolidation or not fielding a team.
This is exactly what is going in with HS football. The gap between the "haves" and "have nots" is growing ever wider, but I don't think that there is a clear answer on how to solve it. Any solutions are basically the MSHSL "picking winners". Every decision they make that is a "solution" for one school is a "problem" for another.
 

Some guy

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Wisconsin does it like the NCAA style, with DI, DII, etc. They also don't have 9man. You play "real" football (11 man), or you combine to get the numbers you need.

I frankly doubt any of the 9man programs couldn't play 11man just as well as 1A programs.
Wisconsin plays regional regular season not entirely based on class though partially.

They play 9 regular season.
5-4 or better make the playoffs.
They fill in 4-5 teams to fill out the bracket.
They place teams into brackets by class after selecting the schools.

For instance if we had a system like wisconsins chaska might play 6a one season and 5a the next depending on if they were one of the 32 biggest to make the playoff.


I personally believe wisconsins system is better and gives kids more competitive games.
 

GopherPlaya

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Wisconsin plays regional regular season not entirely based on class though partially.

They play 9 regular season.
5-4 or better make the playoffs.
They fill in 4-5 teams to fill out the bracket.
They place teams into brackets by class after selecting the schools.

For instance if we had a system like wisconsins chaska might play 6a one season and 5a the next depending on if they were one of the 32 biggest to make the playoff.


I personally believe wisconsins system is better and gives kids more competitive games.
That is better than our current format imo
 

Some guy

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This is exactly what is going in with HS football. The gap between the "haves" and "have nots" is growing ever wider, but I don't think that there is a clear answer on how to solve it. Any solutions are basically the MSHSL "picking winners". Every decision they make that is a "solution" for one school is a "problem" for another.
Which is why they need to go back to giving some of the decision making to the schools.
If wayzata and Eden prairie are not able to fill out schedules they can play each other twice or can pay a school to play them (4k covers an assistant coach of a season so someone might take it)
 

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High school football: Stillwater QB Max Shikenjanski’s stellar start made P.J. Fleck take note. Will others follow suit?​

Max Shikenjanski loves playing quarterback because he loves the spotlight, the big moment, the chance to have the ball in his hands with everything on the line.

So when Stillwater trailed Centennial by 14 points with six minutes to play in a Week 1 game this fall, the Ponies’ senior signal caller was in his element. And he thrived.

Shikenjanski threw two scoring strikes in the final minutes, and capped the comeback by running in the game-winning 2-point conversion to push the Ponies over the top for a scintillating, season-opening victory.

But it wasn’t until Stillwater was on the bus ride home that players realized just how impressive the totality of their offensive performance truly was. The Ponies put up 499 yards of total offense against a stout Centennial defense, including 445 passing yards and four touchdowns from the quarterback.

“We were like ‘Jeez,’ ” Shikenjanski said. “We didn’t really know what just happened. We really didn’t have a clue.”

Those numbers, Stillwater coach Beau LaBore noted, “would suggest that somebody should be more interested” in his quarterback, “whether he says he’s playing basketball or not.”

Shikenjanski is a multi-sport standout who committed to play basketball for The Citadel in August to secure his spot with the program after enjoying his visit to the South Carolina military college.

But it’s not as though Shikenjanski ruled out a future in football at that moment. The quarterback had received interest from a number of football programs, including the Gophers. But those conversations, he noted, ended after the spring.

Until that Week 1 victory. Those numbers piqued P.J. Fleck’s interest. Conversations reignited, and Minnesota offered Shikenjanski a preferred walk-on offer.

“It’s great, it’s kind of a dream of mine,” Shikenjanski said of the Gophers’ interest. “I’ve grown up a Gophers fan, my dad played for the Gophers, so it’s something I’ve dreamed about, so it’s definitely really good.”

Shikenjanski remains committed to The Citadel, but he said the football route is “definitely an option now that Coach Fleck offered me. It’s a tough decision.”

Because while Shikenjanski reiterated that he loves basketball — the sport his father, Jim, played for the Gophers — he added “there’s nothing as good as Friday night lights.”

“Getting to step on the field every single Friday and play with all of my best friends, I mean, it definitely makes me interested more in football and makes me want to play. But I could say the same for basketball. After the season, I don’t ever want to give it up,” he said. “But definitely playing more and getting into the swing of the football and playing a few games, it definitely, yeah, brings my interest up more.”


Go Gophers!!
 

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I went to the EP at Rosemount game last night. Great high school football game. The game proves that "between the ears" is important. EP drove 7 1/2 minutes with their first possession only to be stuffed at the Rosemount 7-yard line. After EPgave up the ball, the first play from Rosemount was a long rushing gain, and the game was on. Spirited defense led the way. EP didn't defend the power T that Rosemount used the way they did versus Lakeville South and it proved costly. 6A wide open. What if the season sees a bunch of teams with one or two losses and no team goes clean??
 

disco

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Wisconsin plays regional regular season not entirely based on class though partially.

They play 9 regular season.
5-4 or better make the playoffs.
They fill in 4-5 teams to fill out the bracket.
They place teams into brackets by class after selecting the schools.

For instance if we had a system like wisconsins chaska might play 6a one season and 5a the next depending on if they were one of the 32 biggest to make the playoff.


I personally believe wisconsins system is better and gives kids more competitive games.
Yep. I had a conversation at the cabin this summer with some guys who coach in Wisconsin, and I agree, their system is better than ours in every way.
 

Schnauzer

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Gopher 461, I can imagine that was a fun game to watch. I will always love high school football and Friday night lights.

I am at our cabin up north this weekend (taking advantage of the Gophers being on the road). I was at happy hour with a friend tonight and I was lamenting I wasn’t at home to attend the local HS game. He responded “why would you do that? You don’t have a kid on the team anymore.” He sort of “got it” when I explained that I soak in multiple HS games per season, but I don’t think people that personally have not been bitten by the bug to TOTALLY understand.
 


Gophers_4life

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Wisconsin plays regional regular season not entirely based on class though partially.

They play 9 regular season.
5-4 or better make the playoffs.
They fill in 4-5 teams to fill out the bracket.
They place teams into brackets by class after selecting the schools.

For instance if we had a system like wisconsins chaska might play 6a one season and 5a the next depending on if they were one of the 32 biggest to make the playoff.


I personally believe wisconsins system is better and gives kids more competitive games.
OK. Isn't this roughly like what you were suggesting?

I'd be good giving it a shot!
 

Gophers_4life

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The good 9 man teams could play just as well as 1A. Well over 50% of them struggle to find 9 players that deserve to be on a varsity football field - that is just size and age... not even considering skill.
Right, and a similar thing could probably be said about 50% of the 1A teams.

That's where it's a thing of: OK, then you need to combine with whoever is closest to you, within reason, to try to get enough numbers to field a team.
 

Gophers_4life

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This is exactly what is going in with HS football. The gap between the "haves" and "have nots" is growing ever wider, but I don't think that there is a clear answer on how to solve it. Any solutions are basically the MSHSL "picking winners". Every decision they make that is a "solution" for one school is a "problem" for another.
First things first: separate private and public for the post-season.

They can play during the regular season, but they have separate brackets for post-season.


Some (several?) states already do this, and it makes sense. You'll never be able to compare the enrollment numbers of a public vs private high school.
 




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