All Things 2022-2023 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

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Gopherguy0723 said:
He wasn't good enough for long enough. He needed 2 more all-star caliber years at catcher to get in. He didn't do it. He doesn't deserve it.
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10 years as the primary catcher. 3 batting titles, 3 gold gloves, 6 All-Star games. The "good enough" part isn't in question. And 10 years at that position is pretty good. He had injuries, yes, but he still played in 120 games or more in 7 of those years at catcher and 11 of 15 years overall. An iron man by modern day Doc Roc standards.
 

howeda7 said:
10 years as the primary catcher. 3 batting titles, 3 gold gloves, 6 All-Star games. The "good enough" part isn't in question. And 10 years at that position is pretty good. He had injuries, yes, but he still played in 120 games or more in 7 of those years at catcher and 11 of 15 years overall. An iron man by modern day Doc Roc standards.
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A 10 year period where he was one of the best catchers of all-time is easily enough. There's all kinds of Hall of Famers that were 'only' great in 10 years or less. Sandy Kofax, Pedro Martinez, Craig Biggio, Bruce Sutter to just name a few.
 


GophersInIowa said:
A 10 year period where he was one of the best catchers of all-time is easily enough. There's all kinds of Hall of Famers that were 'only' great in 10 years or less. Sandy Kofax, Pedro Martinez, Craig Biggio, Bruce Sutter to just name a few.
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This site lists Mauer as the 5th Best Catcher AllTime in terms of WAR. I think he's getting in even sooner than I originally thought (by 2030).

baseballegg.com

Catcher WAR Leaders - Baseball Egg

All-Time Catcher WAR Rankings List of CATCHERS ranked by Wins Above Replacement. Which Catcher had the most Career WAR? Which Catcher had the most WAR in his seven best seasons, or three best seasons? We list Catchers by WAR in their best five consecutive seasons. Also find JAWS rankings. Sort...
baseballegg.com baseballegg.com
 

Ope3 said:
This site lists Mauer as the 5th Best Catcher AllTime in terms of WAR. I think he's getting in even sooner than I originally thought (by 2030).

baseballegg.com

Catcher WAR Leaders - Baseball Egg

All-Time Catcher WAR Rankings List of CATCHERS ranked by Wins Above Replacement. Which Catcher had the most Career WAR? Which Catcher had the most WAR in his seven best seasons, or three best seasons? We list Catchers by WAR in their best five consecutive seasons. Also find JAWS rankings. Sort...
baseballegg.com baseballegg.com
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He's actually 11th, that's career WAR and not at Catcher, and his WAR is below average for all catchers in the HOF.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
He's actually 11th, that's career WAR and not at Catcher, and his WAR is below average for all catchers in the HOF.
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My bad, I had it sorted on Top 7 years, where he was 5th amongst MLB players (does not include Josh Gibson).

Pretty everyone in the Top 15 is in the HoF. Only exceptions are Buster Posey, not eligible but could make it and Thurman Munson.
 
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howeda7 said:
What's the argument against bringing back Fulmer? He'll cost something like 1 year $5 million. We can always use bullpen depth.
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interesting article about that on Twins Daily. they break down Fullmer's numbers. He was really strong against right-handed batters but his numbers are very poor against left-handed batters.

But their big point was that - during last season - Fullmer's velocity was down on the fast ball and on his best pitch, the slider. he also lost some movement on the slider. So the analytics people seem to think Fullmer may be on a downward slide.

Strib also had an article about the bullpen. Falvey said they think the bullpen is in good shape.

(WARNING - WARNING) Falvey also said they think they can get more out of Pagan. included this quote:

"We saw the ability to get swings-and-misses, to go two innings at a time," Falvey said earlier this winter. "I recognize some of the batted-ball outcomes and home runs and big moments were challenging. We're to the drawing board on that."

some of the batted-ball outcomes were challenging.......yah, sure.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
interesting article about that on Twins Daily. they break down Fullmer's numbers. He was really strong against right-handed batters but his numbers are very poor against left-handed batters.

But their big point was that - during last season - Fullmer's velocity was down on the fast ball and on his best pitch, the slider. he also lost some movement on the slider. So the analytics people seem to think Fullmer may be on a downward slide.

Strib also had an article about the bullpen. Falvey said they think the bullpen is in good shape.

(WARNING - WARNING) Falvey also said they think they can get more out of Pagan. included this quote:

"We saw the ability to get swings-and-misses, to go two innings at a time," Falvey said earlier this winter. "I recognize some of the batted-ball outcomes and home runs and big moments were challenging. We're to the drawing board on that."

some of the batted-ball outcomes were challenging.......yah, sure.
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"Pagan doesn't suck. He just has unfortunate batted ball outcomes."

Thanks Derek. That's why you make the big $$.
 

howeda7 said:
10 years as the primary catcher. 3 batting titles, 3 gold gloves, 6 All-Star games. The "good enough" part isn't in question. And 10 years at that position is pretty good. He had injuries, yes, but he still played in 120 games or more in 7 of those years at catcher and 11 of 15 years overall. An iron man by modern day Doc Roc standards.
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The whole, "he isn't getting in" or "he doesn't deserve to" is ridiculous.
 


From the Parkinglot said:
Once Harold Baines made it into the hall of fame the bar was been lowered. Joe Mauer will make it on the second ballot.
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I watched this guy hit around 11 homers per year, and drive in around 60 runs per year forever. couldn't have cared less that this guy was in the batters box for most of his career

Hall of fame makes me chuckle.

But yes, he will get in.
 



Ope3 said:
My bad, I had it sorted on Top 7 years, where he was 5th amongst MLB players (does not include Josh Gibson).

Pretty everyone in the Top 15 is in the HoF. Only exceptions are Buster Posey, no eligible but could make it and Thurman Munson.
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Buster Posey is pretty much a lock also I think.
 



Pitchers and Catchers 1st workout 2 weeks from Today!

23 days until the 1st Spring Training games. Split-squad on Sat, Feb 25 - at Home vs the Rays and at the Orioles.

I'm so excited for Baseball to be back that I'm even looking forward to hearing Dan Gladden do play-by-play on the radio..........which will last about one inning, and then I'll be back to normal.
 

kg21 said:
I watched this guy hit around 11 homers per year, and drive in around 60 runs per year forever. couldn't have cared less that this guy was in the batters box for most of his career

Hall of fame makes me chuckle.

But yes, he will get in.
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You're remembering the last few years instead of his prime years. He had a 5 year stretch as a catcher where he averaged 80 RBI, had an OBS well over .400 and OPS around .900.
 

I thought as a society we have evolved from using RBI as a measure for evaluating players? If not we need to ASAP.
 

GophersInIowa said:
You're remembering the last few years instead of his prime years. He had a 5 year stretch as a catcher where he averaged 80 RBI, had an OBS well over .400 and OPS around .900.
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Joe Mauer should be a no-brainer because he fits every category. His prime years were unmatched and his non-prime years were still decent for a catcher. He should be a first ballot HOFer but he will certainly get in.

Any argument that the HOF is somehow watered down for catchers is crazy. for There are only 19 catchers in the Hall of Fame. In the history of baseball, there have not been 25 people who have done it better than Joe Mauer.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Pitchers and Catchers 1st workout 2 weeks from Today!

23 days until the 1st Spring Training games. Split-squad on Sat, Feb 25 - at Home vs the Rays and at the Orioles.

I'm so excited for Baseball to be back that I'm even looking forward to hearing Dan Gladden do play-by-play on the radio..........which will last about one inning, and then I'll be back to normal.
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You don't like him? Many people really do as he is to the point on many incidences that take place in baseball.
 

#2Gopher said:
You don't like him? Many people really do as he is to the point on many incidences that take place in baseball.
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He's OK on color analyst. The innings he does play-by-play are brutal though. I don't understand why they do that.
 



tikited said:
It's still pretty important seeing how runs determine who wins.
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That doesn't mean RBI is a good stat to evaluate players. Wins and losses are important for teams but a terrible way to evaluate pitchers.
 

Gophers1992 said:
That doesn't mean RBI is a good stat to evaluate players. Wins and losses are important for teams but a terrible way to evaluate pitchers.
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I like it when my teams' pitchers win games.
 


For the sake of off-season talk, can you please explain why RBI should not be a measure in evaluating a hitter? Not The measure, but A measure. I think in the age of shifting, especially, how a hitter does with runners on, RBI do matter. I know it's not a new argument, but it has always puzzled me.
 

GopherPoke said:
For the sake of off-season talk, can you please explain why RBI should not be a measure in evaluating a hitter? Not The measure, but A measure. I think in the age of shifting, especially, how a hitter does with runners on, RBI do matter. I know it's not a new argument, but it has always puzzled me.
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On a tangent, I have always thought "runs scored" has been undervalued by fans/media when it comes to evaluating hitters, or more precise "offense production".
 

GopherPoke said:
For the sake of off-season talk, can you please explain why RBI should not be a measure in evaluating a hitter? Not The measure, but A measure. I think in the age of shifting, especially, how a hitter does with runners on, RBI do matter. I know it's not a new argument, but it has always puzzled me.
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Scoring runs and driving in runs obviously are helpful in winning games (duh), but evaluating a player's ability by looking at his RBI total is highly flawed, because it is determined by so many external factors like how often guys are on base in front of you, where you hit in the order, etc.

If a guy over the course of a season has 300 guys on base in his at bats, and drives in 100 runs, and another guy only has 200 on base but drives in 85, it would be unfair to give player #1 more credit.

Long story short, runs matter, but RBI is a bad comparative statistic.
 

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