All Things 2021 Minnesota Twins In-Season Thread

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
So Target Field is a ghost town when he doesn't play 2/3 of the season every season?

Guys who are always injured rarely stay healthy long term. The Twins should trade him and get as much as they can for him.
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For a season that will almost assuredly be abbreviated and might not happen at all, I don't think there is any trade market at all. Heck, part of the Labor agreement could mean Buxton winds up a Free Agent.

From what I gather, they have a window until Dec 1 to resign him. After that, they need to see what shakes out between the Owners & MLBPA.

www.sportico.com

Major League Baseball Collective Bargaining Will Come Down to the Wire

Service time and competitive balance are the big issues players are attempting to address in these negotiations, but so far to no avail.
www.sportico.com www.sportico.com
 

Ope3 said:
For a season that will almost assuredly be abbreviated and might not happen at all, I don't think there is any trade market at all. Heck, part of the Labor agreement could mean Buxton winds up a Free Agent.

From what I gather, they have a window until Dec 1 to resign him. After that, they need to see what shakes out between the Owners & MLBPA.

www.sportico.com

Major League Baseball Collective Bargaining Will Come Down to the Wire

Service time and competitive balance are the big issues players are attempting to address in these negotiations, but so far to no avail.
www.sportico.com www.sportico.com
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That is the unknown and why I was adamant they should have traded him at the deadline in July.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So Target Field is a ghost town when he doesn't play 2/3 of the season every season?

Guys who are always injured rarely stay healthy long term. The Twins should trade him and get as much as they can for him.
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The prospects they get in a trade will almost certainly never contribute as many wins as he will, even if he doesn't play 150 games every season. The prospects they got for Johan Santana amounted to nothing. The prospects they got when they traded both Span and Revere? Nothing. When they traded Aaron Hicks? Nothing.

There is certainly risk, but saying he misses 2/3 of every season is an exaggeration. Buxton has played in 447 out of 870 games since 2016 and some of those games missed were when he was in the minors for non-injury reasons. Paul Molitor was injured a lot in his 20's and then had a great run in his 30's/40's. It can certainly happen, especially when half Buxton's injuries are bad luck (broken foot on foul ball, broken hand on HBP etc.)
 

howeda7 said:
The prospects they get in a trade will almost certainly never contribute as many wins as he will, even if he doesn't play 150 games every season. The prospects they got for Johan Santana amounted to nothing. The prospects they got when they traded both Span and Revere? Nothing. When they traded Aaron Hicks? Nothing.
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Not true about Revere. They got Trevor May, solid reliever through 2020. Probably still not as productive as Revere, but he was out of baseball by 2017.

Span trade. Yeah, bust.
 

Ope3 said:
Not true about Revere. They got Trevor May, solid reliever through 2020. Probably still not as productive as Revere, but he was out of baseball by 2017.

Span trade. Yeah, bust.
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True. But wasn't Vance Worley the centerpiece of that trade? Woof.
 


howeda7 said:
The prospects they get in a trade will almost certainly never contribute as many wins as he will, even if he doesn't play 150 games every season. The prospects they got for Johan Santana amounted to nothing. The prospects they got when they traded both Span and Revere? Nothing. When they traded Aaron Hicks? Nothing.

There is certainly risk, but saying he misses 2/3 of every season is an exaggeration. Buxton has played in 447 out of 870 games since 2016 and some of those games missed were when he was in the minors for non-injury reasons. Paul Molitor was injured a lot in his 20's and then had a great run in his 30's/40's. It can certainly happen, especially when half Buxton's injuries are bad luck (broken foot on foul ball, broken hand on HBP etc.)
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How many playoff games have they won with him?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
How many playoff games have they won with him?
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How many did they win with Mauer? Mourneau? Hunter? That issue is much deeper than one person. Do you think trading Buxton will lead to play-off wins?

Franky, the only reason they can afford him is because of his injuries. If he was fully healthy last year and this year, he'd probably be looking at $30 million + per year instead of the $20 that we can sign him for now.
 

I don't think they can afford (not money-wise) trading Buxton. He is one of few actual players that can win games for us. As mentioned above, we most likely won't get anywhere near the production he can bring. I think it is worth it to give him another contract. He's just too good to not hope he can stay healthy.
 

tikited said:
I don't think they can afford (not money-wise) trading Buxton. He is one of few actual players that can win games for us. As mentioned above, we most likely won't get anywhere near the production he can bring. I think it is worth it to give him another contract. He's just too good to not hope he can stay healthy.
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The backlash they will face from the public if they trade him will be immense. It's not quite the leverage Mauer had in 2010, but it's close.
 



howeda7 said:
How many did they win with Mauer? Mourneau? Hunter? That issue is much deeper than one person. Do you think trading Buxton will lead to play-off wins?

Franky, the only reason they can afford him is because of his injuries. If he was fully healthy last year and this year, he'd probably be looking at $30 million + per year instead of the $20 that we can sign him for now.
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Mauer should have been traded too.
 

tikited said:
I don't think they can afford (not money-wise) trading Buxton. He is one of few actual players that can win games for us. As mentioned above, we most likely won't get anywhere near the production he can bring. I think it is worth it to give him another contract. He's just too good to not hope he can stay healthy.
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If only this, if only that, shoulda, coulda, woulda, is the history of MN sports.

No team, including the Twins should spend 100+ million on a guy who can’t stay healthy. Buxton will laugh his way to the bank while on the 60 day DL, and the Twins will wallow in mediocrity.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
If only this, if only that, shoulda, coulda, woulda, is the history of MN sports.

No team, including the Twins should spend 100+ million on a guy who can’t stay healthy. Buxton will laugh his way to the bank while on the 60 day DL, and the Twins will wallow in mediocrity.
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Maybe so. Or maybe he plays 140 games and continues to play like an all-star. I get both sides. I'd roll the dice.
 




howeda7 said:
The backlash they will face from the public if they trade him will be immense. It's not quite the leverage Mauer had in 2010, but it's close.
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They are screwed either way. Trade him and he’s healthy they get criticism sign him and he’s hurt they get criticism .
The best part of all the people that comment and rip the twins in public don’t go to the games or watch the games as evident by the attendance figures and ratings. They just wanna complain and the twins are the whipping boy. The fact the Vikings don’t face face criticism for their failings like the twins do is remarkable. It’s much easier to win in the nfl than in baseball as there is a salary cap and your drafted players come in and play right away. Best case a drafted player in mlb is ready in 3 years and most cases it’s 4 years.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
If only this, if only that, shoulda, coulda, woulda, is the history of MN sports.

No team, including the Twins should spend 100+ million on a guy who can’t stay healthy. Buxton will laugh his way to the bank while on the 60 day DL, and the Twins will wallow in mediocrity.
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5/$110 million is not a franchise crippling contract. We're not the Tampa Rays.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
They are screwed either way. Trade him and he’s healthy they get criticism sign him and he’s hurt they get criticism .
The best part of all the people that comment and rip the twins in public don’t go to the games or watch the games as evident by the attendance figures and ratings. They just wanna complain and the twins are the whipping boy. The fact the Vikings don’t face face criticism for their failings like the twins do is remarkable. It’s much easier to win in the nfl than in baseball as there is a salary cap and your drafted players come in and play right away. Best case a drafted player in mlb is ready in 3 years and most cases it’s 4 years.
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How is it easier to win in the NFL? There are 6 or 7 great qbs in the NFL and if you don't have one, you are boned. Brady has owned this league for two decades. You have a great qb or why bother.

I'd say it's easier in MLB.
 



kg21 said:
How is it easier to win in the NFL? There are 6 or 7 great qbs in the NFL and if you don't have one, you are boned. Brady has owned this league for two decades. You have a great qb or why bother.

I'd say it's easier in MLB.
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Salary floor and minimum

contracts have some guaranteed money but not all so you can screw over players at will in the nfl

rookies contribute to the team right away as opposed to 3-4 years after the draft

much easier to evolve in football as it is at baseball as you need to be offensive and defensive in baseball

it is possible to win without a quarterback, Cleveland won Sunday at Minnesota in-spite of their quarterback and coach making terrible calls

you only have to win 8-9 games out of 16 or 17 to make the playoffs vs The grind that is a baseball season that is 162 games

You only play 1 game a week so you can devote all your effort to that on game as opposed to traveling from Minnesota to Cleveland to New York all during a week

the biggest thing is still the money to me and how easy it is to cut players you don’t want. Look at the bad contracts on teams like David Price and Eric Hosmer those contracts don’t exist in the nfl and guys are simply cut or told to renegotiate their contract if they want the honor of playing against
 


From the Parkinglot said:
Salary floor and minimum

contracts have some guaranteed money but not all so you can screw over players at will in the nfl

rookies contribute to the team right away as opposed to 3-4 years after the draft

much easier to evolve in football as it is at baseball as you need to be offensive and defensive in baseball

it is possible to win without a quarterback, Cleveland won Sunday at Minnesota in-spite of their quarterback and coach making terrible calls

you only have to win 8-9 games out of 16 or 17 to make the playoffs vs The grind that is a baseball season that is 162 games

You only play 1 game a week so you can devote all your effort to that on game as opposed to traveling from Minnesota to Cleveland to New York all during a week

the biggest thing is still the money to me and how easy it is to cut players you don’t want. Look at the bad contracts on teams like David Price and Eric Hosmer those contracts don’t exist in the nfl and guys are simply cut or told to renegotiate their contract if they want the honor of playing against
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I'm talking about winning it all. You either have a great qb, or you don't win it.

In baseball, you can get by with two great starters out of your 5. You get to the playoffs, starters 4 and 5 don't even pitch. Pitching depth no longer matters. To top it off, they have one game playoffs after 162 games. What a flipping joke.

You have Houston, Chicago, and Tampa Bay as 3 of the 4 teams left in the AL. Not exactly big markets. Hell, the cheap ass Twins were in last year and the year before with just ok pitching.

It's much easier in baseball to win it all. Milwaukee, Atlanta, and San Fran are coming out of the NL. Again, not exactly big markets.
 
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Speaking of the playoffs: Go Dodgers! Hopefully, they can overcome losing Muncy in this ridiculous play-in game tonight.
 

tikited said:
Speaking of the playoffs: Go Dodgers! Hopefully, they can overcome losing Muncy in this ridiculous play-in game tonight.
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I don't think the "play-in game tonight" is ridiculous. They LOST the NL West Division race. That's the penalty.

Now, should they win I do think it's dumb that they then get the Giants in the NL Division Round. That hurts the Giants, they should get to play the NL Team remaining with the worst record. The 2 teams with the best MLB records should not be playing in the Division Round.

Having said that, the Dodgers will have their hands full with the Cards.
 

Ope3 said:
I don't think the "play-in game tonight" is ridiculous. They LOST the NL West Division race. That's the penalty.

Now, should they win I do think it's dumb that they then get the Giants in the NL Division Round. That hurts the Giants, they should get to play the NL Team remaining with the worst record. The 2 teams with the best MLB records should not be playing in the Division Round.

Having said that, the Dodgers will have their hands full with the Cards.
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I hate how MLB handles the playoffs. I'd hate it even if it helped the Dodgers. So...I agree with most of your post.😎

Getting the Cardinals and possibly the Giants is crazy tough.
 

tikited said:
I hate how MLB handles the playoffs. I'd hate it even if it helped the Dodgers. So...I agree with most of your post.😎

Getting the Cardinals and possibly the Giants is crazy tough.
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Correct. Play-in playoff games are incredibly stupid. There should only be 4 playoff teams. Get rid of the 5th.
 

TruthSeeker said:
Guys who are injury prone typically don't get less injury prone. They get more injury prone.
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At the same time in his situation it isn't one specific injury that keeps affecting him. Part of it could just be bad luck.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
If only this, if only that, shoulda, coulda, woulda, is the history of MN sports.

No team, including the Twins should spend 100+ million on a guy who can’t stay healthy. Buxton will laugh his way to the bank while on the 60 day DL, and the Twins will wallow in mediocrity.
Click to expand...
Trading him would almost certainly result in mediocrity. And there's a good chance that the money saved wouldn't be spent on another top player. The potential is still way too great to trade him at this point IMO.
 

kg21 said:
I'm talking about winning it all. You either have a great qb, or you don't win it.

In baseball, you can get by with two great starters out of your 5. You get to the playoffs, starters 4 and 5 don't even pitch. Pitching depth no longer matters. To top it off, they have one game playoffs after 162 games. What a flipping joke.

You have Houston, Chicago, and Tampa Bay as 3 of the 4 teams left in the AL. Not exactly big markets. Hell, the cheap ass Twins were in last year and the year before with just ok pitching.

It's much easier in baseball to win it all. Milwaukee, Atlanta, and San Fran are coming out of the NL. Again, not exactly big markets.
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If your only goal is to win a championship then a lot of people will be disappointed every year.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
If your only goal is to win a championship then a lot of people will be disappointed every year.
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Detroit, chicago, Kansas City, Cleveland, and the Twins have all won the AL central recently. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 

TruthSeeker said:
Correct. Play-in playoff games are incredibly stupid. There should only be 4 playoff teams. Get rid of the 5th.
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The NBA and NHL, play 82 game seasons and all of their playoffs are best of 5 or best of 7. Mostly best of 7.

Here comes MLB with a one game playoff after playing 162. It's the joke of the century.
 
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