All things 2017 Minnesota boys high school tourney

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Tre just dominated two really good players in back-to-back games. Seriously impressive preformances by him.
 

lakesgopher said:
I appreciate the gamesmanship--u don't, u want the NBA/college game at the high school level. We will never agree


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Fair enough. Agree to disagree. And if there is a way other than a shot clock to prevent things like that then I'm all for it. Doesn't have to be a shot clock, but I don't have a better idea.
 


bizzle22 said:
And just to add to the debate over class assignment/choice...schools like St. Thomas Academy should have their enrollments multiplied by 2 when determining which class they belong in. It is an all boys school. Comparing their enrollment to that of a school with boys and girls is not apples to apples. (STA is my former high school's rival...so take that for what it's worth, but it seems like common sense to me)

I don't really have as problem with DLS or MA playing at whichever class they are assigned. But just from a competitive aspect I would want to move up if I were them so that when I won state I could say that I beat the big boys. They can stay down, but they should expect the whole "scared to play the big boys" haters to continue.
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That already do
 

After going to the 3A and 4 A games I really liked Gabe I and Terry for Details. Mar will be good at George Mason just think he's too small for the big ten and he doesn't have the handles to play in the back court. Really impressed with how Delasalle defends
 


mnsportsgeek said:
That'll happen when you go up against Tre. He played like a 5* tonight.
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Not just the game but losing his coach as well really feel bad for the kid. Losing two undefeated season the last game must be an awful feeling.
 

I think the kid with the biggest upside in the entire tournament is the FR Suggs from Minnehaha Academy. Very mature for his age and already has a fairly refined game. Gabe K from DeLa Salle also has a lot of upside. Obviously, Tre Jones is a heck of a talent. (when Dave Lee isn't calling him Tyus, but that's a story for another thread....)

Theo John is great against HS opponents - but I wonder if he is going to be a bit of a tweener at college. He doesn't have the offensive game to play forward, and he will be an undersized Center in college. That was the one think I noted from this year's tournament - no real big men (6'10" or so).
 


Theo John is great against HS opponents - but I wonder if he is going to be a bit of a tweener at college. He doesn't have the offensive game to play forward, and he will be an undersized Center in college. That was the one think I noted from this year's tournament - no real big men (6'10" or so).[/QUOTE]

I don't know what you're referring to. Oturu, John, Ruevers-all DI, all at 6'9...Or so. All legit big men. What's the other inch mean? Both Oturu and John can seat balls from one side of the gym to the other.

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principalguy;I don't know what you're referring to. Oturu said:
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What I'm referring to is the difference between Reggie Lynch at 6'10" and Eric Curry at 6'9". Lynch is a true center. Curry is a power forward. The difference is in physicality and body type. Theo John blocks a lot of shots against HS opponents, but can he do the same thing at a higher level? Don't misunderstand me - I think John can be a solid PF type in college - but I just don't see him as a post player in D1. Ruevers is also a forward at college - maybe even a small forward with his body type. He's not a banger, and needs to put on a lot of weight to be an inside player. Oturu I haven't seen as much of. He looks like he might have the frame to bulk up a bit. I still see him as more of a PF type.

Look, I understand the game has changed. Teams go smaller a lot more and there aren't as many true centers or traditional back-to-the-basket post players. But I would much rather have a Reggie Lynch type at Center as opposed to a Eric Curry type in terms of size, strength and physical presence. And, FWIW, I think Theo John is more like 6'8" - maybe he'll grow a little bit, but can you seriously see him playing Center in college against the big guys from Purdue, or Reggie Lynch? That's why I see him as a tweener or a PF.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
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What I'm referring to is the difference between Reggie Lynch at 6'10" and Eric Curry at 6'9". Lynch is a true center. Curry is a power forward. The difference is in physicality and body type. Theo John blocks a lot of shots against HS opponents, but can he do the same thing at a higher level? Don't misunderstand me - I think John can be a solid PF type in college - but I just don't see him as a post player in D1. Ruevers is also a forward at college - maybe even a small forward with his body type. He's not a banger, and needs to put on a lot of weight to be an inside player. Oturu I haven't seen as much of. He looks like he might have the frame to bulk up a bit. I still see him as more of a PF type.

Look, I understand the game has changed. Teams go smaller a lot more and there aren't as many true centers or traditional back-to-the-basket post players. But I would much rather have a Reggie Lynch type at Center as opposed to a Eric Curry type in terms of size, strength and physical presence. And, FWIW, I think Theo John is more like 6'8" - maybe he'll grow a little bit, but can you seriously see him playing Center in college against the big guys from Purdue, or Reggie Lynch? That's why I see him as a tweener or a PF.[/QUOTE]

John is a power forward. There's nothing wrong with that. He reminds me a lot of John Thomas in high school, who had a great college career and played in the NBA for a few years.
 

DeathClutch said:
Tre just dominated two really good players in back-to-back games. Seriously impressive preformances by him.
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Tre absolutely destroyed McKinley. Really glad he didn't land here after watching the two play head-to-head last night.
 

John Galt said:
Tre absolutely destroyed McKinley. Really glad he didn't land here after watching the two play head-to-head last night.
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I thought Wright held his own a lot better than Davison did, he played a decent game, he's just not a great shooter, you are comparing him to a top high school guard in the country, not many that would hold up. Jones is a game changer, he would start day one if he chose the Gophers.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
What I'm referring to is the difference between Reggie Lynch at 6'10" and Eric Curry at 6'9". Lynch is a true center. Curry is a power forward. The difference is in physicality and body type. Theo John blocks a lot of shots against HS opponents, but can he do the same thing at a higher level? Don't misunderstand me - I think John can be a solid PF type in college - but I just don't see him as a post player in D1. Ruevers is also a forward at college - maybe even a small forward with his body type. He's not a banger, and needs to put on a lot of weight to be an inside player. Oturu I haven't seen as much of. He looks like he might have the frame to bulk up a bit. I still see him as more of a PF type.

Look, I understand the game has changed. Teams go smaller a lot more and there aren't as many true centers or traditional back-to-the-basket post players. But I would much rather have a Reggie Lynch type at Center as opposed to a Eric Curry type in terms of size, strength and physical presence. And, FWIW, I think Theo John is more like 6'8" - maybe he'll grow a little bit, but can you seriously see him playing Center in college against the big guys from Purdue, or Reggie Lynch? That's why I see him as a tweener or a PF.
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Reggie Lynch was way worse than Theo at Edina and look how he turned out. Theo isn't a center. He won't play center at Marquette and he wouldn't have played it if he landed here. He's already a Big 10 defender and I have little doubt that he will develop an offensive game.
 

John Galt said:
Tre absolutely destroyed McKinley. Really glad he didn't land here after watching the two play head-to-head last night.
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Ya, that happens when you go up against junior olympians. There aren't many Tre Jones's in the Big 10.

Wright was not that bad last night. He's just not one of the best point guards in the nation. I still would happily take him if we hadn't landed Washington.
 

lakesgopher said:
I appreciate the gamesmanship--u don't, u want the NBA/college game at the high school level. We will never agree


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You consider players literally crouching at half court with 15 minutes to play gamesmanship?
 

mnsportsgeek said:
Reggie Lynch was way worse than Theo at Edina and look how he turned out. Theo isn't a center. He won't play center at Marquette and he wouldn't have played it if he landed here. He's already a Big 10 defender and I have little doubt that he will develop an offensive game.
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I agree, comparing Lynch to John at this stage, John wins hands down, Lynch was also John's height in high school, hard to tell how he will develop but the guys wing span is incredible. He has potential at this stage, that is it.
 

Theo John is 6-9 probably 220 and solid. Looks like prototype PF size. After 4 years he will probably be 245. Not getting any of the posts about undersized.
 

march madness said:
Theo John is 6-9 probably 220 and solid. Looks like prototype PF size. After 4 years he will probably be 245. Not getting any of the posts about undersized.
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People still think you have to be 7 feet to play center in college in the modern era
 

RatherBeGolfing said:
You consider players literally crouching at half court with 15 minutes to play gamesmanship?
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In cases like tech vs Hopkins yes...hell, i would have tried to hold it vs north or delasalle this year. I have no problem with adding strategy-watch the NBA if you don't like it.

Outside of, "the game is boring" why do people think we need a shot clock? How is the game better if there is a shot clock? Maybe we should be more concerned with better basketball over speeding things up


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lakesgopher said:
In cases like tech vs Hopkins yes...hell, i would have tried to hold it vs north or delasalle this year. I have no problem with adding strategy-watch the NBA if you don't like it.

Outside of, "the game is boring" why do people think we need a shot clock? How is the game better if there is a shot clock? Maybe we should be more concerned with better basketball over speeding things up


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The addition of the three point line must've been really hard for you back in the day.
 

Also, no one who was at the Target Center Saturday night was worrying about our advocating for a shot clock. There was plenty of action and strategy, but both teams shot less than 40%.
 


lakesgopher said:
In cases like tech vs Hopkins yes...hell, i would have tried to hold it vs north or delasalle this year. I have no problem with adding strategy-watch the NBA if you don't like it.

Outside of, "the game is boring" why do people think we need a shot clock? How is the game better if there is a shot clock? Maybe we should be more concerned with better basketball over speeding things up


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I talked to the Tech coaches before that game and they told me the strategy. They thought they had 1 (Wolters) or 2 (Hanks, went to Mankato) kids who could play for Hopkins so they tried the only strategy they thought could keep them close. Boring? Sure. But so are 50 point wins/losses.

I agree that a shot clock adds nothing to 99% of games. Would lead to more forced shots and turnovers. That is not fun.

Not to mention the cost of installing and maintaining shot clocks in every gym, referees being put under further scrutiny, etc.
 

lakesgopher said:
Nice rebuttal without answering the question...




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I don't think guys crouching down and playing keep away is basketball. People watch basketball to see the creativity, the flow, the excitement, the teamwork, etc. not hold the ball for minutes on end. Make the shot clock 45 seconds, that's more than enough time.

Like you said, we're never going to agree on this, you're voicing your opinion, I'm voicing mine
 

I would be fine with a 40 second shot clock.
I still remember Khalid El Amin standing for 2 minutes while the opponent refused to come out and guard him. It was terribly boring, but legal, basketball.
 

Wait people don't think a shot clock would add anything to the game? It might not at the Class AAA and AAAA levels but when teams at the A and AA levels get a lead, if they've got good guards, it's nearly impossible to come back because they won't let you get the ball back.

That's not against the rules but at some point it does get to be a little anti-competitive.

The rebuttal of course is "don't get in a hole or fall behind" and it's valid but there is part of me that feels a little cheated when a team has no shot of mounting a comeback in a game because the opponent will just hold the basketball.

I don't care about the entertainment aspect - of course watching kids hold the ball does get boring - but it also doesn't feel very basketbally to me. Doubt it ever happens because so few small schools can afford to have shot clocks installed let alone an extra body to operate them.
 

And the whole convo on John - there's no way he's a college PF. PFs nowadays have to be skilled. Very few teams play with PFs that play like Cs now. I guess the Gophers kind of do with Murphy but he's a lot more skilled than John in terms of handles and ability to create his own shot.

John doesn't impress me. I think he's just a guy at the D1 level...decent rotation big who can defend and finish inside on occasion but I'd be surprised if he turns into anything more. He's been raw for years and hasn't developed much in terms of skills. He's big and strong, but he should've dominated that game Saturday.
 

Biggsohnasty said:
And the whole convo on John - there's no way he's a college PF. PFs nowadays have to be skilled. Very few teams play with PFs that play like Cs now. I guess the Gophers kind of do with Murphy but he's a lot more skilled than John in terms of handles and ability to create his own shot.

John doesn't impress me. I think he's just a guy at the D1 level...decent rotation big who can defend and finish inside on occasion but I'd be surprised if he turns into anything more. He's been raw for years and hasn't developed much in terms of skills. He's big and strong, but he should've dominated that game Saturday.
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DI teams have two types of big guys, the Stretch 4, like Ruevers, and the enforcer, like John. For those types, offense is not a requirement usually. There are a few guys that are two-way centers, but they are very scarce.

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RatherBeGolfing said:
I don't think guys crouching down and playing keep away is basketball. People watch basketball to see the creativity, the flow, the excitement, the teamwork, etc. not hold the ball for minutes on end. Make the shot clock 45 seconds, that's more than enough time.

Like you said, we're never going to agree on this, you're voicing your opinion, I'm voicing mine
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I don't really care about a shot clock or not, just playing devil's advocate.

If a team is stalling, maybe just get out there and guard them. Try and do something about it if you are the better team...Is there still a five second rule in high school basketball?
 

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