All Things 2014-2015 Roster

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IMO There is NO way that Joey King can play the 3! He is not quick enough, or athletic enough. He couldn't guard other players at the 3.
 

MadtownGopher said:
So he gets less than 3 years to define his legacy here? And that legacy is totally dependent on his 2015 class? What if he were to sign nothing but 5-star recruits in 2016 and 2017? What if he signed only 3-star recruits from here on out but went to the elite 8 every year? Yes 2015 will be important since it is a big class, but it is far from a make/break situation.
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What if you weren't such a know it all dip****? Nothing but 5-star recruits? Went to the Elite 8 each year? Ya, two very believable scenarios. You really got me, super fan. Nobody said it's a make/break situation. Look at the needs after Walker/Elliason and Mathieu/Hollins are gone. If you get three classes of recruits in a row without at least one or two of the type of recruit Michigan State, Michigan, and Ohio State get, it's going to be harder and harder to make that move to the top. Doesn't mean he can't be successful here, but odds are we'll be closer to the bubble every year rather than a high seed.
 

Mulligan said:
What if you weren't such a know it all dip****? Nothing but 5-star recruits? Went to the Elite 8 each year? Ya, two very believable scenarios. You really got me, super fan. Nobody said it's a make/break situation. Look at the needs after Walker/Elliason and Mathieu/Hollins are gone. If you get three classes of recruits in a row without at least one or two of the type of recruit Michigan State, Michigan, and Ohio State get, it's going to be harder and harder to make that move to the top. Doesn't mean he can't be successful here, but odds are we'll be closer to the bubble every year rather than a high seed.
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This bro is all sorts of angry
 


jaymil said:
I think Mo will get even better this offseason. Last offseason was spent losing weight and trimming down, and this offseason should be about getting stronger, quicker, and more powerful. He also has to work on grabbing the ball and securing it, and not turning it over so much down low. To say Mo is "who he is" at this moment I have to disagree with. We haven't seen the best of Mo yet.
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My comment about "who he is" was poorly written. I did not mean he couldnt improve from where he is. I am willing to give him the chance to develop a post game this summer. I am just saying that if he isnt the biggest guy ouy there he is hampered by inferior athleticism. He has one move, a jump hook over his left shoulder. I hope he makes another big leap this year. He does do fairly well making free throws for a big guy.
 


Bad Gopher said:
I thought he'd finally do it when Andre intentionally fouled at the end of last night's game. But nope.
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That's what I thought, considering we needed a rebound and EE is our best rebounder...

King had a nice season, but did poorly on the boards. Mo improved tremendously over the course of the season; even with all that improvement, I don't trust him in the least to get a rebound or defend anyone. For a guy who has some pretty footwork on the offensive end, his defensive footwork and positioning are terrible. Then there's Elliott. If EE can develop inside moves on offense, he'd be the best center in the B1G. Not that that is easy to do, but Mo accomplished it, can't see why EE couldn't as well. On the other hand, can't see why Mo can't become a good defender and rebounder. Both have great opportunities to become elite B1G centers in their senior seasons, given development of these deficiencies.

I'd like to see them both on the floor in certain situations. Think about it, given next year's roster it would be nice to see these guys each get over 20 minutes a game. To accomplish that, both need to improve.
 

cncmin said:
That's what I thought, considering we needed a rebound and EE is our best rebounder...

King had a nice season, but did poorly on the boards. Mo improved tremendously over the course of the season; even with all that improvement, I don't trust him in the least to get a rebound or defend anyone. For a guy who has some pretty footwork on the offensive end, his defensive footwork and positioning are terrible. Then there's Elliott. If EE can develop inside moves on offense, he'd be the best center in the B1G. Not that that is easy to do, but Mo accomplished it, can't see why EE couldn't as well. On the other hand, can't see why Mo can't become a good defender and rebounder. Both have great opportunities to become elite B1G centers in their senior seasons, given development of these deficiencies.

I'd like to see them both on the floor in certain situations. Think about it, given next year's roster it would be nice to see these guys each get over 20 minutes a game. To accomplish that, both need to improve.
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Ahh, if only Mo and EE could inherit each other's skills this offseason. Mo adds EEs defense, and EE became coordinated and developed offensive moves. We'd have two above-average Big Ten starting caliber center.
-Regarding Joey King, I think if he spends this offseason adding 10-15 pounds of muscle and develops more of a confident/aggressive mentality, he could be a very reliable PF that we can be comfortable playing against all sorts of teams.
 

Mulligan said:
What if you weren't such a know it all dip****? Nothing but 5-star recruits? Went to the Elite 8 each year? Ya, two very believable scenarios. You really got me, super fan. Nobody said it's a make/break situation. Look at the needs after Walker/Elliason and Mathieu/Hollins are gone. If you get three classes of recruits in a row without at least one or two of the type of recruit Michigan State, Michigan, and Ohio State get, it's going to be harder and harder to make that move to the top. Doesn't mean he can't be successful here, but odds are we'll be closer to the bubble every year rather than a high seed.
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Dude, you need to settle down. Who is to say (other than Howieanna) Mason, Martin, and Morris can't compete with MSU, Michigan, and Ohio State recruits? You seem to be too fixated on recruiting rankings. Our best player last year was hardly ranked at all. And just because Pitino doesn't get a 4 or 5 star player by 2015 (and I think he will!), doesn't mean he won't get one ever. Rome wasn't built in a day.
 

PTalberg said:
IMO There is NO way that Joey King can play the 3! He is not quick enough, or athletic enough. He couldn't guard other players at the 3.
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I see no reason why Joey wouldn't be able to play some minutes at the 3 when we are in a 2-3 defense. The 3 and 4 literally have the same defensive responsibilities in a 2-3. On offense he won't be beating a lot of defenders off the dribble, but he can definitely stretch the floor with his shot and do enough without the ball to at least get by playing the 3. I think his ideal position is definitely the 4 though, particularly with a little more weight. His post up and midrange game really started to click at the end of the season. I'm excited to see what kind of player he becomes in the next 2 years.
 



fryguy22 said:
Not sure what your enormous beef is with Carlos Morris, but I do hope you realize that you're setting yourself up for GH ridicule every time he does anything positive next season. Just FYI.
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I personally cannot wait for this.
 


howieramone said:
From the worship the coach, but rip all the players except Mathieu crowd? Do you realize how remote this possibility is unless Pollyanna gets a job?
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I don't know when it's going to happen, but I just have a feeling you're going to get banned at some point. Probably sometime before the end of next season.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
I don't know when it's going to happen, but I just have a feeling you're going to get banned at some point. Probably sometime before the end of next season.
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I am gonna go out on a limb and say zero ****s are given on his end. however, I cannot wait for the squirrel to have a breakout game
 



With all of the Carlos Morris speculation, I was inspired to go back and read comments about Mathieu before he played his first game for us. Specifically I read the thread about him being MVP in a scrimmage. gopherhoopsguy was the first to predict he would be our best player. Quite the prediction, kudos to him. To no surprise The-Real-Truth was a hater from the start, claiming people were only optimistic because they hated Tubby and loved Richard.

I also found this gem from Howieanna while checking some preseason posts suggesting Buggs would never become a valuable player.

howieramone said:
You would be amazed at what a player can accomplish in 4 years. As a rule of thumb, I never give up on a player before he's played his first game.
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MadtownGopher said:
With all of the Carlos Morris speculation, I was inspired to go back and read comments about Mathieu before he played his first game for us. Specifically I read the thread about him being MVP in a scrimmage. gopherhoopsguy was the first to predict he would be our best player. Quite the prediction, kudos to him. To no surprise The-Real-Truth was a hater from the start, claiming people were only optimistic because they hated Tubby and loved Richard.

I also found this gem from Howieanna while checking some preseason posts suggesting Buggs would never become a valuable player.
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Pollyanna, comparing Buggs to Morris is like comparing apples to oranges. A JUCO needs to be able to play on the big stage right away. As I have stated, IMO Morris will not be a B1G average player when he walks on campus. I have never said he can't be a Malik Smith type role player. You have stated 3 or 4 times he is better than Austin.

Glad to hear you were inspired.
 

howieramone said:
Pollyanna, comparing Buggs to Morris is like comparing apples to oranges. A JUCO needs to be able to play on the big stage right away. As I have stated, IMO Morris will not be a B1G average player when he walks on campus. I have never said he can't be a Malik Smith type role player. You have stated 3 or 4 times he is better than Austin.

Glad to hear you were inspired. If you find a job the board will be able to go back to normal.
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Buggs and Morris were both in the 2012 recruiting class. Buggs even went to prep school so he is actually a year older. I don't see why you defend Buggs, but treat Morris like he shouldn't even be playing D-1 basketball. Is it simply because Buggs has an extra year of eligibility? And it's not like you've attended a bunch of Chipola games this year. Other than a couple of short youtube videos, you've never seen Morris play. Give the kid a chance.

I have not said Morris will be better than Austin. I have said I believe he will be able to start at the 3 for us and be a good fit. I think he will be able to do a lot of the things Austin did for us... solid defense, get to the rim, and decent outside shooting. I think most people share that expectation for Morris. You seem to be the only one that is utterly convinced he will be a failure.

And you are right, I don't have a job. I have a career. A great one.
 

Lakers612 said:
I'm confused about where Piper is in his decision process.
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He's announcing it when he returns from NY, which I'd presume is in the next few days since that HS tournament is over tomorrow. Gopher fans seem optimistic ... remains to be seen if that is justified. UW fans say he hasn't qualified yet.
 

I'm from Bemidji so I have a predisposition to want to see your side on issues, but, for the life on me, I have no clue as to your meaning of this:
bemidjigopher said:
I am gonna go out on a limb and say zero ****s are given on his end. however, I cannot wait for the squirrel to have a breakout game
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exactly

jaymil said:
Agreed. We're a pressing team and our offense depends on good ballhandlers. I think Pitino recruits guys like Morris and Piper to play SF in his system. Austin Hollins was a pretty ideal SF actually. In a perfect world, Joey King is a stretch 4 who plays 10-15 minutes off the bench, but if he starts at all it will be at PF.
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Agreed. Like Mo better than EE but this is a better combo. I like Mo off the bench as instant offense too.

tmvander said:
I almost like the idea of starting Elliot and King at 4 and 5 that way you get the defense and rebounding Elliot brings with the main scoring threats at the guard positions. You bring in Walker and Martin off the bench and Martin is hopefully your defensive/rebounding target while Mo is the main scoring threat on the floor for the bigs.

Just my thought.
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That's actually a good point with the foul trouble. Hadn't really thought about that. I think it's better when he comes in after like 4 minutes and surprises the starting big man that's now tired, beasting him back and drawing fouls.

MadtownGopher said:
Mo is better, he'll start over EE. I also like Mo starting because he is a force on offense which means every game there is a chance the other team's starting big man could get into quick foul trouble. EE would be better suited as a energy and hustle guy off the bench.
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This is like people complaining that Trevor didn't have enough moves. The few he had worked great. Mo's nowhere near that, but he's had only one yr in a decent body and didn't get much PT in the beginning. He's gonna be huge for us next year. I'm predicting one of the breakout players in the BT. Anyway, most of what you said is true, but the bottom line is that Mo has quite a few games where he factors in very significantly. He's one of few big men around who dominates at times. Very solid at drawing fouls and just owning the paint. He just needs more consistency. I think next yr he won't take as many plays off and will play stronger. He's had too many soft plays and there's no reason he shouldn't be able to cut those down.

Uncle Rico said:
My comment about "who he is" was poorly written. I did not mean he couldnt improve from where he is. I am willing to give him the chance to develop a post game this summer. I am just saying that if he isnt the biggest guy ouy there he is hampered by inferior athleticism. He has one move, a jump hook over his left shoulder. I hope he makes another big leap this year. He does do fairly well making free throws for a big guy.
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I want to agree but I don't think EE's ceiling is as high as Mo's. He's too offensively challenged and uncoordinated to be much of a scorer. Can do other great things on offense as we saw in the Syracuse game, however.

cncmin said:
That's what I thought, considering we needed a rebound and EE is our best rebounder...

King had a nice season, but did poorly on the boards. Mo improved tremendously over the course of the season; even with all that improvement, I don't trust him in the least to get a rebound or defend anyone. For a guy who has some pretty footwork on the offensive end, his defensive footwork and positioning are terrible. Then there's Elliott. If EE can develop inside moves on offense, he'd be the best center in the B1G. Not that that is easy to do, but Mo accomplished it, can't see why EE couldn't as well. On the other hand, can't see why Mo can't become a good defender and rebounder. Both have great opportunities to become elite B1G centers in their senior seasons, given development of these deficiencies.

I'd like to see them both on the floor in certain situations. Think about it, given next year's roster it would be nice to see these guys each get over 20 minutes a game. To accomplish that, both need to improve.
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Not that I said anything, but I predicted the same thing under the assumption that he and Andre were guarding each other. Andre clearly got dominated and that in itself was impressive. Also there were multiple games and Mathieu was so efficient. I would be happy to have a player like Mathieu at pg every year. Brings so much to the table consistently (only the turnovers can be upsetting). No way we win close games without him. His turnovers hurt, but I expect he'll cut these down and start to get more calls next year. Refs boned him all year on drives.

MadtownGopher said:
With all of the Carlos Morris speculation, I was inspired to go back and read comments about Mathieu before he played his first game for us. Specifically I read the thread about him being MVP in a scrimmage. gopherhoopsguy was the first to predict he would be our best player. Quite the prediction, kudos to him. To no surprise The-Real-Truth was a hater from the start, claiming people were only optimistic because they hated Tubby and loved Richard.

I also found this gem from Howieanna while checking some preseason posts suggesting Buggs would never become a valuable player.
Click to expand...
 

MadtownGopher said:
Dude, you need to settle down. Who is to say (other than Howieanna) Mason, Martin, and Morris can't compete with MSU, Michigan, and Ohio State recruits? You seem to be too fixated on recruiting rankings. Our best player last year was hardly ranked at all. And just because Pitino doesn't get a 4 or 5 star player by 2015 (and I think he will!), doesn't mean he won't get one ever. Rome wasn't built in a day.
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Um, first, not a dude. And I don't need to settle down either just because I'm tired of you chiming in incessantly on damn near every thread when you have no more clue than anyone else. You have no problem belittling guys working their butts off for the Gophers; yet, you pass yourself off as this devoted fan. You're one of the guys who made me decide to stop reading game threads when the game was still being played. Feel silly over-reacting to you when I should just ignore you but you're like some pesky fly just buzzing around annoying me.

Not sure if it's a reading problem, and you make a lot of assumptions, but I'll try. "Define a legacy" is like establishing a reputation since that is how Pitino will be remembered here. He's had a hell of a two good first years as a head coach, and has got me really excited about what he may do. However, he's got to keep the momentum going and that is tough in this league. Selection Sunday and others, who actually know what they're talking about, think next year's squad might not make the NCAA again. You look at who we lose next year and the gap between those players and who is left becomes pretty scary. If the Gophers aren't in next year, they're on the bubble again at best the following year. Then the buzz is starting to die off, the snipers start showing up, it's harder to recruit who you really want, the as*holes in the media start really making fun of Pitino, etc. Do I know this will happen? Unlike you, of course not. But I've been a Gopher fan since the early 60's (which is why I'm not a dude, dude) and I know how things work not only here, but in college sports in general.

There's a door the hot young coach has to step through to get to the top or else his career gets bogged down. That door is basically the 15-16 and the 16-17 seasons (even more so). That's why the next recruiting class is so critical. I'm hopeful, but anyone who thinks this years recruits with who's in the current freshman and sophomore classes are competing for a title in two years is a delusional idiot. Not hung up on ratings, but the plucky Gopher squad beating Izzo's boys and the like scenario doesn't do much for me. They may do it a couple times a year like this year, but it's not going to happen on a consistent basis.

So, first, nobody said Pitino has only 3 years. I'm looking down the road the next three years after that. Second, not hung up on ratings, but if you want the program to get to the top, better players are needed. Every year you don't get to or near the top makes it that much more probable you don't get there. You don't outcoach Izzo, Belein, Matta, Ryan, etc. game in and game out without players as good as theirs at playing your system. Just because you keep coming up with all sorts of improbable BS, doesn't mean anything. Anyone with any actual insight only has to look at Tubby's career here to see the pitfalls. That arc is repeated over and over everywhere: initial excitement, great optimism, bad luck, disappointing season or two, criticism, recruiting drops off, disillusionment, wish for a change. I really think Pitino can avoid that, but I have no assurances. Unlike someone who addresses people as "dude" and thinks he has all the answers, I know things ain't that easy.
 

MN1nAZ said:
I'm from Bemidji so I have a predisposition to want to see your side on issues, but, for the life on me, I have no clue as to your meaning of this:
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I am saying I don't think howie cares if he gets banned or not
 

Mulligan said:
Um, first, not a dude. And I don't need to settle down either just because I'm tired of you chiming in incessantly on damn near every thread when you have no more clue than anyone else. You have no problem belittling guys working their butts off for the Gophers; yet, you pass yourself off as this devoted fan. You're one of the guys who made me decide to stop reading game threads when the game was still being played. Feel silly over-reacting to you when I should just ignore you but you're like some pesky fly just buzzing around annoying me.

Not sure if it's a reading problem, and you make a lot of assumptions, but I'll try. "Define a legacy" is like establishing a reputation since that is how Pitino will be remembered here. He's had a hell of a two good first years as a head coach, and has got me really excited about what he may do. However, he's got to keep the momentum going and that is tough in this league. Selection Sunday and others, who actually know what they're talking about, think next year's squad might not make the NCAA again. You look at who we lose next year and the gap between those players and who is left becomes pretty scary. If the Gophers aren't in next year, they're on the bubble again at best the following year. Then the buzz is starting to die off, the snipers start showing up, it's harder to recruit who you really want, the as*holes in the media start really making fun of Pitino, etc. Do I know this will happen? Unlike you, of course not. But I've been a Gopher fan since the early 60's (which is why I'm not a dude, dude) and I know how things work not only here, but in college sports in general.

There's a door the hot young coach has to step through to get to the top or else his career gets bogged down. That door is basically the 15-16 and the 16-17 seasons (even more so). That's why the next recruiting class is so critical. I'm hopeful, but anyone who thinks this years recruits with who's in the current freshman and sophomore classes are competing for a title in two years is a delusional idiot. Not hung up on ratings, but the plucky Gopher squad beating Izzo's boys and the like scenario doesn't do much for me. They may do it a couple times a year like this year, but it's not going to happen on a consistent basis.

So, first, nobody said Pitino has only 3 years. I'm looking down the road the next three years after that. Second, not hung up on ratings, but if you want the program to get to the top, better players are needed. Every year you don't get to or near the top makes it that much more probable you don't get there. You don't outcoach Izzo, Belein, Matta, Ryan, etc. game in and game out without players as good as theirs at playing your system. Just because you keep coming up with all sorts of improbable BS, doesn't mean anything. Anyone with any actual insight only has to look at Tubby's career here to see the pitfalls. That arc is repeated over and over everywhere: initial excitement, great optimism, bad luck, disappointing season or two, criticism, recruiting drops off, disillusionment, wish for a change. I really think Pitino can avoid that, but I have no assurances. Unlike someone who addresses people as "dude" and thinks he has all the answers, I know things ain't that easy.
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Nobody is saying things will be easy. And it's always easy as a Minnesota fan to be pessimistic. That tends to reflect reality in this town. But why try to squelch the optimism of others? Pitino has a chance to succeed, as tubby did. Through bad luck and some shortcomings tubby missed out. I'm hoping pitino does not. And I have hope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Let's keep this on track. Roster commentary.
 

A few thoughts on various discussions in this thread:

If Joey King is playing the 3, Coach Pitino is not going to be able to run the type of offense or defense he wants to run. Joey is not a good enough ball handler to play a wing spot for Pitino and he's not athletic enough to defend other teams 3's, especially in a pressure based defense. Pitino constantly brings up wanting to get more deflections defensively, you don't do that by playing Joey King at the 3. I would guess Pitino has given no more thought to playing King at the 3 than he has to playing Elliott and Mo together.

It's way too early to project where the Gophers are going to wind up in the B1G pecking order given all the uncertainties that surround their roster AND the rosters of other teams around the conference. The Gophers are going to add somewhere between 2-4 guys who are eligible to play next year and how 1-2 of those guys perform immediately will go a long way in to determining the Gophers ceiling. As it stands now, I feel like it's safe to say the Gophers will be deeper with Big Ten level athletes next year.

This summer is huge for Coach Pitino. It might not be fair, but that's a different argument. He will have 7-8 scholarships that will turn over by the end of next season. Ideally, the Gophers get a couple 2015 commitments this Summer and fill out the 2015 class before signing day in November. He really needs to land a minimum of 2 kids (out of those 7 scholarships) that project as big time players. The next 6-7 months is crucial for the future of Gopher Basketball under Coach Pitino and not a single game will be played during that time span. Momentum is so huge in college sports where kids almost always want to play for a. the consistent winner or b. the new hot program. Pitino has to make Minnesota part of group B , before he can get his program in to group A. Fans can look at things and say, "he's only had X number of years", but most recruits look and see, for example 2 NIT berths and one year of no post-season play and it becomes a really, really tough sell.

Coach Pitino has vastly exceeded my expectations as a game day coach in his first year. He found a way to be competitive in East Lansing, beat several ranked teams at home, and remained competitive (if not successful) when Andre Hollins went down. I thought year one would be quite a learning curve for a 31 year old with one year as a head coach in a minor conference under his belt. As for recruiting, getting Mathieu late in the process and at least getting on the radar of a number high profile 2014 kids were positive steps.

I think we're in very good hands with Coach Pitino, but every coach needs players. I hope he'll find a way to get the talent he needs, but I can't assure anyone that will happen, just as nobody can assure me he won't.
 

Mulligan said:
Um, first, not a dude. And I don't need to settle down either just because I'm tired of you chiming in incessantly on damn near every thread when you have no more clue than anyone else. You have no problem belittling guys working their butts off for the Gophers; yet, you pass yourself off as this devoted fan. You're one of the guys who made me decide to stop reading game threads when the game was still being played. Feel silly over-reacting to you when I should just ignore you but you're like some pesky fly just buzzing around annoying me.

Not sure if it's a reading problem, and you make a lot of assumptions, but I'll try. "Define a legacy" is like establishing a reputation since that is how Pitino will be remembered here. He's had a hell of a two good first years as a head coach, and has got me really excited about what he may do. However, he's got to keep the momentum going and that is tough in this league. Selection Sunday and others, who actually know what they're talking about, think next year's squad might not make the NCAA again. You look at who we lose next year and the gap between those players and who is left becomes pretty scary. If the Gophers aren't in next year, they're on the bubble again at best the following year. Then the buzz is starting to die off, the snipers start showing up, it's harder to recruit who you really want, the as*holes in the media start really making fun of Pitino, etc. Do I know this will happen? Unlike you, of course not. But I've been a Gopher fan since the early 60's (which is why I'm not a dude, dude) and I know how things work not only here, but in college sports in general.

There's a door the hot young coach has to step through to get to the top or else his career gets bogged down. That door is basically the 15-16 and the 16-17 seasons (even more so). That's why the next recruiting class is so critical. I'm hopeful, but anyone who thinks this years recruits with who's in the current freshman and sophomore classes are competing for a title in two years is a delusional idiot. Not hung up on ratings, but the plucky Gopher squad beating Izzo's boys and the like scenario doesn't do much for me. They may do it a couple times a year like this year, but it's not going to happen on a consistent basis.

So, first, nobody said Pitino has only 3 years. I'm looking down the road the next three years after that. Second, not hung up on ratings, but if you want the program to get to the top, better players are needed. Every year you don't get to or near the top makes it that much more probable you don't get there. You don't outcoach Izzo, Belein, Matta, Ryan, etc. game in and game out without players as good as theirs at playing your system. Just because you keep coming up with all sorts of improbable BS, doesn't mean anything. Anyone with any actual insight only has to look at Tubby's career here to see the pitfalls. That arc is repeated over and over everywhere: initial excitement, great optimism, bad luck, disappointing season or two, criticism, recruiting drops off, disillusionment, wish for a change. I really think Pitino can avoid that, but I have no assurances. Unlike someone who addresses people as "dude" and thinks he has all the answers, I know things ain't that easy.
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Talk about making assumptions.

You are making an assumption that the players on the roster after next year won't be as good or better than those leaving. Another assumption that if the team doesn't make the NCAA Tourney next year that at best the following year the team will be on the bubble again.

Let things such as how the roster is shaped over the next couple of seasons play themselves out before worrying how scary it looks.
 

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