Alex Kaliakmanis: Trying very hard not to comment on a program that our family decided to cut ties with.

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@Pompous Elitist Squish.

So now it seems you’re saying the opposite of what you said?

It was OK to have promised starting job to AK because now we can just go out and bring in some fully-developed hired gun from the FCS.

Otherwise I have no idea what your actual argument is.
 

60's Guy said:
No argument Athan played poorly. Disagree why he's leaving though...I agree with dad....it has nothing to do with competition. Athan and dad feel he is a much better QB than how he performed.
He/they did not like how he was coached. His performance wasn't going to improve if the same people were still coaching him.
So he is hoping to resurrect his career and have fun playing again some place else. It wasn't fun playing for PJ and Harbaugh, so he's leaving.
That's how I see it.
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I've said it before: if you play poorly, just blame someone else. Much, much easier than standing up, and taking some personal responsibility.
 

MplsGopher said:
@Pompous Elitist Squish.

So now it seems you’re saying the opposite of what you said?

It was OK to have promised starting job to AK because now we can just go out and bring in some fully-developed hired gun from the FCS.

Otherwise I have no idea what your actual argument is.
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I genuinely don’t know what we’re arguing about.
 

MG:
  1. Fleck recruits Athan with, “We’re not taking another QB this year or next, the keys to the kingdom are yours, we’ll let Tanner ride it out next year then it’s yours — little competition, etc.”. Clark and Annexstad are told this and bolt.
@Pompous Elitist :
Number 1 is strong evidence of a quid pro quo; not recruiting many other desirable QBs except Knuth. Unfortunately, in hindsight a miscalculation

Implying strongly that it was a negative and should not have been done.


Me:
What else do we actually have to offer, to get a decent guy in here??? How would you do it?
 

MplsGopher said:
MG:
  1. Fleck recruits Athan with, “We’re not taking another QB this year or next, the keys to the kingdom are yours, we’ll let Tanner ride it out next year then it’s yours — little competition, etc.”. Clark and Annexstad are told this and bolt.
@Pompous Elitist :
Number 1 is strong evidence of a quid pro quo; not recruiting many other desirable QBs except Knuth. Unfortunately, in hindsight a miscalculation

Implying strongly that it was a negative and should not have been done.


Me:
What else do we actually have to offer, to get a decent guy in here??? How would you do it?
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Hire a coach, pay him a seven figure salary, and trust him to figure out the hard parts of his job that I don't know how to do.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I think his stats would clearly be better but I would be really worried about his ability to go through his reads and his accuracy issues. If you're in a wide open system, you absolutely cannot miss the easy throws.


One thing that does happen when you're a run/run/pass team is that your QBs are facing a ton of 3rd and 8s, 3rd and 7s, etc. Those are really difficult situations for any QB, much less someone as a first year starter. So AK will likely get more early down passing attempts.
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I'm not disagreeing with the broader point, but Morgan in his final full season (2021) threw 78 times on first down for a rating of 149.4 and Kaliakmanis threw 119 times on first down this season for a rating of 133.1. AK was given more opportunities in a favorable down and distance and did less with them. Obviously there are additional factors (the number of times we were behind, etc.) but Morgan on second down in 2021 (132.8 rating) was roughly equal to Kaliakmanis on first down in 2023.
 

Scottsdale Gopher said:
I'm not disagreeing with the broader point, but Morgan in his final full season (2021) threw 78 times on first down for a rating of 149.4 and Kaliakmanis threw 119 times on first down this season for a rating of 133.1. AK was given more opportunities in a favorable down and distance and did less with them. Obviously there are additional factors (the number of times we were behind, etc.) but Morgan on second down in 2021 (132.8 rating) was roughly equal to Kaliakmanis on first down in 2023.
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Where did you get those stats?
 






Scottsdale Gopher said:
I'm not disagreeing with the broader point, but Morgan in his final full season (2021) threw 78 times on first down for a rating of 149.4 and Kaliakmanis threw 119 times on first down this season for a rating of 133.1. AK was given more opportunities in a favorable down and distance and did less with them. Obviously there are additional factors (the number of times we were behind, etc.) but Morgan on second down in 2021 (132.8 rating) was roughly equal to Kaliakmanis on first down in 2023.
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But all of the coaches around here swear we run/run/pass only. Then again they don't know how an RPO works so... ;)

(not you Bob!)
 

There will be dozens and dozens of QBs in the portal after Dec. 4th. There are only so many starting spots to be "promised." There is a concentration of NIL money at a few schools, but many more QBs wanting new homes than there schools with fat NIL wallets. We're not going to be in the running for the top dog transfer QBs, whom are auctioning off their services. So what? There will be plenty of good QBs left for PJ to speak with and recruit--many of whom can be expected from day one to perform better under pressure than AK8. And playing time in the Big Ten, on TV all the time, is a big deal. It is a significant non-monetary benefit.

I think our ultimate problem, as others have mentioned, is our system and QB coaches (over the years). Our offensive system, which asks QBs to be game managers and "not lose the game" has got to be a negative for confident QBs who want to be a key player and be instrumental in winning the game. Handing the ball off on 70% of offensive plays has got to be a negative for a QB who fancies himself an excellent passer. Our system also asks a QB to suddenly turn on the downfield passing game, because we're so far behind now, after being a hand-off machine earlier in the game (when he could have been getting in rhythm with his receivers). And I have no idea if our QB coaches have helped our QBs progress during the year, but results on the field would suggest a failure at this function. So, apart from the NIL background noise, PJ's got to sell his conservative, QB-minimizing style of offense, and his lackluster QB coaching history, to a QB transfer candidate.

I think the fix--or movement toward a fix--is pretty easy. But not sure PJ sees it this way. I admit that the situation probably appears much more nuanced to insiders in our program. But QB transfer candidates aren't insiders. Not even close. They have seen much less of our program than even the ignorami (of which I am one) on GH have seen. The stuff I've said in the paragraph above is what is being whispered into transfer candidates' ears. And PJ has to overcome that, I think.
 

I'd like to see what this offense looks like with a QB who can make the routine plays consistently, doesn't panic when pressured, understands our offense as well as the opponents' defense, is decisive and gets the ball out on time.

None of those things require a superstar.
 



RememberMurray said:
I'd like to see what this offense looks like with a QB who can make the routine plays consistently, doesn't panic when pressured, understands our offense as well as the opponents' defense, is decisive and gets the ball out on time.

None of those things require a superstar.
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Tell us how it worked when Woody had a good QB at tOSU back in the 60’s and you were watching from the stands. In todays world we have no chance if we keep running that nonsense.
 

Gopherchase said:
Tell us how it worked when Woody had a good QB at tOSU back in the 60’s and you were watching from the stands. In todays world we have no chance if we keep running that nonsense.
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Woody? 1960s?

How about Minnesota, 2019?

Oh, wait... is that me, going too far back in history?
 
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RememberMurray said:
I'd like to see what this offense looks like with a QB who can make the routine plays consistently, doesn't panic when pressured, understands our offense as well as the opponents' defense, is decisive and gets the ball out on time.

None of those things require a superstar.
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That's a pretty rare QB combination of skills.
1. Just Consistently efficient is likely all conference. Not many people at any position can do that.
2. Doesn't panic...how many NFL QB's panic when pressured? Again not many guys have all these things you are labeling as basic. They may have one or two but the missing parts mess things up.
3. Understands our offense.... all our QBs appear to be going to play for somebody else. Evidently it is hard to do what they they are asking.
4. Decisive and gets the ball out on time...again, not a basic thing. Hard to find just this.
You forgot a couple things at the top of the list:
1. He has to be fearless in the pocket. The pass rush wants to kill him. Standing in the pocket and delivering strikes is rare. I believe this is different than panicking....both required....both hard to find. Panicking comes after the ability to fearlessly stand in the pocket. Both are not easy attributes to find.
2. IF the QB somehow has #1 ... now, The QB has to be accurate and understand where he can and cannot throw the ball.
3. All those things and more but the most important thing (if he is fearless and accurate) is his ability to process what he sees in fractions of a second. This is why NFL first round picks bomb...they can't make the correct decision quickly enough.
Now, all those routine things in your mind may exist but then you have a coach who messes you up, doesn't make it fun, doesn't inspire and increase your confidence ....then you have no chance to be a good QB even if you have all the qualities we both would like to see exist. The coach is sabotaging the pupil....certainly not intentionally but again lots of guys leaving...not just one now and then.
The QB guys who can do all these things make $40-50 million a year and still get criticized.
It's not simple.
 

60's Guy said:
The QB guys who can do all these things make $40-50 million a year and still get criticized.
It's not simple.
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I'm afraid you and I will have to agree to disagree on this.

For the attributes I listed, a player like Tanner Morgan or Zach Terrell fits the bill pretty well.
 

RememberMurray said:
Woody? 1960s?

How about Minnesota, 2019?

Oh, wait... is that me, going too far back in history?
Click to expand...
Methinks two NFL wide receivers and an NFL running back made it a little irrelevant relative to what offense we ran that year. You see that same skill set on the horizon anywhere within our skill players? Morgan had it all going on that year as well. He was great but a lot of tools at his disposal.
 

Gopherchase said:
Methinks two NFL wide receivers and an NFL running back made it a little irrelevant relative to what offense we ran that year. You see that same skill set on the horizon anywhere within our skill players? Morgan had it all going on that year as well. He was great but a lot of tools at his disposal.
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In 2021, both Bateman and Tyler Johnson were gone. Mo Ibrahim missed the entire season (except for 3 quarters of the first game).
Morgan led the team to 9 wins.

In 2022, no Bateman, no Johnson. Morgan completed 66.9% of his passes. 8.6 yards per attempt.
Chalk up yet another 9-win season.

A smart QB who understands the game, doesn't panic and makes routine throws is all that's required in this offense. Unfortunately, the Gophers didn't have that last season.
 

I wanna bring up offensive line. I thought, the beauty of a good O line was that you built it over years, always had a good mix of underclassmen and upper classmen and had a "system" for recruiting and coaching them up. I thought we were there with our O line, or was it more of Mo Ibrahim making it look good? Some have said our O Line under-performed this year - and I scratched my head, because I thought we had that part of our offense solved. And O Line is an area you don't necessarily need to recruit 4-5 star blue chippers. You get the big, smart, coachable guys and plug them into your system. It's a part of the team that even Minnesota can recruit to, right?

Thoughts or comments on this?
 

I'll just offer here at page 10 of the thread that while yes there's reason to be focused on the QB position, the reality is the D's performance had a much more significant dropoff this year than what can be attributed to our former QB and associated offense.

We all know this.

Fact is that even if we bring in the 2024 edition of Broadway Joe, we will not be well positioned to boat race the expanded B1G field without Rossi's D's of 2019, 2021, and 2022 coming back from the veil.

Assuming Coach still wants to give Fleckball one more run with a competent QB, the philosophy requires a D that can stop the run, tackle in space, and not give up big downfield passing plays. We are back to 2018 pre-Purdue in that regard.

Meanwhile, back to this thread, as best can tell Dad AK8 has not tweeted any more which is good. It will be interesting to see where Athan lands (assuming there will be a taker) and who might don the Maroon and Goldat the QB position for 2024.
 
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GopherJack said:
I wanna bring up offensive line. I thought, the beauty of a good O line was that you built it over years, always had a good mix of underclassmen and upper classmen and had a "system" for recruiting and coaching them up. I thought we were there with our O line, or was it more of Mo Ibrahim making it look good? Some have said our O Line under-performed this year - and I scratched my head, because I thought we had that part of our offense solved. And O Line is an area you don't necessarily need to recruit 4-5 star blue chippers. You get the big, smart, coachable guys and plug them into your system. It's a part of the team that even Minnesota can recruit to, right?

Thoughts or comments on this?
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I feel like our o line was fine. Some people have complained that they weren't giving our qb enough time to get the ball out but I saw numerous times per game where there was the typical three seconds or so where the qb had enough time to get the ball out to an open receiver but the qb was just bad. Additionally, it's hard to determine when your rb depth was gutted and everyone knows your qb is a 50% passer with no vision.

I think one on one we had an acceptable offensive line performance. Hard to honestly assess when there are usually more rushers than blockers because the qb isn't a threat and your fifth string rb is your primary for half the season because of injuries or fumble concerns. They'd have looked a lot better if we had a 60% passer as one would expect for a power 5 team.
 


MplsGopher said:
@RememberMurray you're attributing the entire 2022 season to Morgan? That's just plain dishonest
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I am not attributing the entire 2022 season to Morgan.

But it is absolutely true that Morgan, who was clearly no superstar, merely competent, had success — and the team had successful seasons — while playing Fleck's much-maligned system. As I pointed out, they even had good seasons when NFL-caliber WRs and RBs were not available to them.

The system does require competence at QB, though.

We don't necessarily need a Heisman candidate. Morgan and Zach Terrell are proof of that.
 
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GopherJack said:
I wanna bring up offensive line. I thought, the beauty of a good O line was that you built it over years, always had a good mix of underclassmen and upper classmen and had a "system" for recruiting and coaching them up. I thought we were there with our O line, or was it more of Mo Ibrahim making it look good? Some have said our O Line under-performed this year - and I scratched my head, because I thought we had that part of our offense solved. And O Line is an area you don't necessarily need to recruit 4-5 star blue chippers. You get the big, smart, coachable guys and plug them into your system. It's a part of the team that even Minnesota can recruit to, right?

Thoughts or comments on this?
Click to expand...
I think it was a down year for the OL but I do think we have some young kids coming up that will eventually right the ship. 77 is soft, 66 is a borderline D1 player and both guards were getting their first taste of starting this year.
 

Scottsdale Gopher said:
I'm not disagreeing with the broader point, but Morgan in his final full season (2021) threw 78 times on first down for a rating of 149.4 and Kaliakmanis threw 119 times on first down this season for a rating of 133.1. AK was given more opportunities in a favorable down and distance and did less with them. Obviously there are additional factors (the number of times we were behind, etc.) but Morgan on second down in 2021 (132.8 rating) was roughly equal to Kaliakmanis on first down in 2023.
Click to expand...

First of all, those first down stats alone don't equate to AK getting more favorable chances.

Secondly, the biggest factor was Tanner was handing the ball off to Mo, who almost always put them in a favorable 2nd or 3rd down situation and converted more 3rd-and-mid range plays than anyone in school history. The philosophy of handing off on 2nd and 3rd down continued with AK at the helm despite not having Mo. In fact, it got worse as the season went on with a fifth-string walk-on at RB. Athan was behind the sticks the entire month of November.
 

tjgopher said:
First of all, those first down stats alone don't equate to AK getting more favorable chances.

Secondly, the biggest factor was Tanner was handing the ball off to Mo, who almost always put them in a favorable 2nd or 3rd down situation and converted more 3rd-and-mid range plays than anyone in school history. The philosophy of handing off on 2nd and 3rd down continued with AK at the helm despite not having Mo. In fact, it got worse as the season went on with a fifth-string walk-on at RB. Athan was behind the sticks the entire month of November.
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That's the most important part of what went wrong with the offense this year. An offense built around running the ball was depending on a walk, way down the depth chart to keep it afloat.

How many of the teams getting in the Championship Round, all are gonna be passing based, would have got there with their 4th of 5th string QB running the show? Depth is on the recruiting of the coaching staff. The disappearing running game could well be on injuries.
 

Nubin obviously had an incredible, record-setting day against MSU’s defense.

But after that it just didn’t stick
 

RememberMurray said:
In 2021, both Bateman and Tyler Johnson were gone. Mo Ibrahim missed the entire season (except for 3 quarters of the first game).
Morgan led the team to 9 wins.

In 2022, no Bateman, no Johnson. Morgan completed 66.9% of his passes. 8.6 yards per attempt.
Chalk up yet another 9-win season.

A smart QB who understands the game, doesn't panic and makes routine throws is all that's required in this offense. Unfortunately, the Gophers didn't have that last season.
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We were ranked 119 in passing yards, 119! We were even lower in passing yards percentage. In 2021 we were 115. Also, while in 2021 and 2022 we had nine wins, but without a win against a good team and losses against teams we could have beat with any kind of passing game. The schedule was awful in 2021 and 22. The offense, and Morgan, played poorly in games against any good teams and in losses. Moving forward we will never get a schedule like those again, so we need much better play from the offense.
 

Yeah the first four games of 22 including a putrid Colorado team and a terrible MSU team, made his stats look nice. He also had a good day coming back to play against Rutgers, forgot about that.

But he was 18-33 0TD 3int against Purdue in homecoming, without Mo. And then 4-12 against Illinois NFL defense before getting helmet punched.

www.sports-reference.com

Tanner Morgan College Gamelog | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out Tanner Morgan's College Gamelog and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
 

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