Adding a team

[denguegopher]

Every year people talk about adding one more team to the Big 10. So I thought I would get this board's reaction to the idea. I have listed all the school that meet 2 requirements(1 offical & 1 unoffical) The first, and offically, being the school must be located within a state that already touches a state that has a Big 10 school. For example UCLA could not join the Big 10. Secondly, and unoffically, the school must me a member of the AAU or Association of American Universities. The AAU is the highest group a school could join.

Note that Notre Dame is not included but could get in the AAU if they applied, I would guess. And, yes I know there are a few IVY League schools in the list but they meet the guidelines I set forth.

So make your case for the school that is the best fit.

Iowa State
Missouri
Nebraska
Rutgers
Maryland
Pitt
Carnegie Mellon
Columbia
Cornell
Princeton
Syracuse
Penn

The AAU is clearly an outstanding group of universities http://www.aau.edu/about/article.aspx?id=5476 . I believe that most of the criteria to become an AAU is related to research and graduate education. Very few graduate students are D1 athletes and relatively few undergraduate students are involved in research. I know that conferences about about more than athletics, and that prestige (usually measured by research productivity) is key for universities, and therefore being associated with other prestigious schools is desirable. But athletics is also about $ and adding good athletic teams to the conference. I think that limiting Big Ten expansion to AAU schools limiting. I think that Louisville or Cincinnati would be nice additions athletically, but I know it will never happen.

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

Another "unofficial" rule that I've always heard was that states that once permitted slavery or seceded from the union would not be candidates for inclusion in the Big Ten. I don't know if that's true or not. If so, that would disqualify teams from Kansas and Kentucky as they were both slave states.

1. Kansas was a free state.
2. New Jersey had approx 125 slaves when the southern states seceeded. Slavery was legal in New Jersey until the early 1800's. When it was banned it did not apply to slaves already residing in the state. As such, in 1861 there were still a little over 100 elderly slaves who had not been granted their freedom. So if this 'slavery rule' were real (which I highly doubt) then Rutgers wouldn't be an option.

 

[tjgopher]

Nebraska would never leave the Big 12 in a million years. They are one of the old Big 8 members and they would never leave those rivalries.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Nebraska would not walk away from the old Big 8.

First of all, with the addition of the Texas schools, Nebraska doesn't even play its biggest rival from the old Big 8 on an annual basis (Oklahoma). In fact, joining the Big Ten could open the door for that to become an annual game again (only in the non-conference). Nebraska does have rivalries with existing Big 12 North teams Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State, Colorado and K-State, but the Huskers are not the biggest rivals to any of those five.

Secondly, the revenue stream that the Big Ten can offer is better than the revenue stream that the Big 12 can offer. And, that actually factors in that the Big 12 doesn't do a revenue share like the Big Ten. The Big Ten's TV deals are so much better and the BTN adds enough extra revenue and extra exposure that a school like Nebraska could make more money and get more publicity belonging to the Big Ten.

And, also don't discount the academic part of the Nebraska administration FULLY embracing the Big Ten prestige and recognition that comes from being part of the CIC. It is a big reason why Penn State joined the league. And, it would be very enticing for the Nebraska chancellor to consider. Nebraska already has a fairly good academic reputation, particularly on the athletics side of it (post graduate scholar numbers are impressive). Joining the Big Ten and the CIC would only magnify that reputation.

Now, I'm not saying Nebraska would definitely walk away, but they would consider it strongly, IMO. The bigger question to me - does the Big Ten think the addition of Nebraska and its football prestige, but its lack of TV sets outweigh the addition of Rutgers and its big number of TV sets, but its lack of athletic prestige.

 

[GopherGod]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Nebraska would not walk away from the old Big 8.

First of all, with the addition of the Texas schools, Nebraska doesn't even play its biggest rival from the old Big 8 on an annual basis (Oklahoma). In fact, joining the Big Ten could open the door for that to become an annual game again (only in the non-conference). Nebraska does have rivalries with existing Big 12 North teams Kansas, Missouri, Iowa State, Colorado and K-State, but the Huskers are not the biggest rivals to any of those five.

Secondly, the revenue stream that the Big Ten can offer is better than the revenue stream that the Big 12 can offer. And, that actually factors in that the Big 12 doesn't do a revenue share like the Big Ten. The Big Ten's TV deals are so much better and the BTN adds enough extra revenue and extra exposure that a school like Nebraska could make more money and get more publicity belonging to the Big Ten.

And, also don't discount the academic part of the Nebraska administration FULLY embracing the Big Ten prestige and recognition that comes from being part of the CIC. It is a big reason why Penn State joined the league. And, it would be very enticing for the Nebraska chancellor to consider. Nebraska already has a fairly good academic reputation, particularly on the athletics side of it (post graduate scholar numbers are impressive). Joining the Big Ten and the CIC would only magnify that reputation.

Now, I'm not saying Nebraska would definitely walk away, but they would consider it strongly, IMO. The bigger question to me - does the Big Ten think the addition of Nebraska and its football prestige, but its lack of TV sets outweigh the addition of Rutgers and its big number of TV sets, but its lack of athletic prestige.

It would never happen in a million years. And yes the Big Ten Network brings in some solid revenue, don't you think the other conferences are looking into that as well and will eventually have their own networks once the BTN proves it is a viable model. Nebraska's biggest rival for the last 10-15 years has been Colorado.

 

[Son of a Badger]

Interesting thread. Unless a team comes from the Big East i.e Pitt or Rutgers, I don't see a team leaving one of the power conferences. Plus, any team could win the Big East in any given year as evidenced by Cincinnati this year. I think Pitt or Rutgers would be marginal teams in the Big 10 while either teams could easily win BCS berth next year in the Big East.

Is there any way that the Big 10 looks at mid-major conferences such as the MWC or C-USA? I think a team like Utah would be a great addition (although I don't believe the Big 10 would let them in because of their Native American nickname). Would a team like TCU be a viable option? That way the Big 10 can get some games in Texas and possibly start pulling more recruits out of the hotbed that Texas is.

Regardless, I'd like to see the Big 10 add another team.

 

[tjgopher]

And yes the Big Ten Network brings in some solid revenue, don't you think the other conferences are looking into that as well and will eventually have their own networks once the BTN proves it is a viable model.

Maybe, maybe not. The SEC chose NOT to start its own network. And, one big advantage that the BTN has that the Big 12 will never get is the big number of big markets. The Big 12 is dotted with Ames, Stillwater, Norman, College State, etc. Sure, they have the big cities in Texas, Denver, KC, STL, etc. But, they do not have Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Philadelphia, etc. That is why the Big Ten has the most lucrative TV deals out there. Nebraska could jump at the extra money.

Nebraska's biggest rival for the last 10-15 years has been Colorado.

If true, that further proves my point. You really think Nebraska would shy away from joining the Big Ten to keep a rivalry with Colorado? There are other reasons that Nebraska might stay, but Colorado certainly isn't one of them. OU had been their biggest rival until the TX schools were added. Now, Nebraska is not the biggest rival to any Big 12 member. On top of which, there are those rumors out there that Colorado someday will join the Pac Ten anyway, so Nebraska will give NO consideration to the Colorado portion of the equation. Kansas, Missouri, K-State might enough to keep them, but Colorado will be a non-factor in their thinking.

 

[dpodoll68]

I think Pitt or Rutgers would be marginal teams in the Big 10 while either teams could easily win BCS berth next year in the Big East.

This is true. However, they would stand to gain greatly, both monetarily and in terms of academic prestige, from a move to the Big Ten. And we all know that money rules the world.

I think a team like Utah would be a great addition (although I don't believe the Big 10 would let them in because of their Native American nickname)

Is the Big Ten planning on kicking Illinois out? Do you have a link?

Would a team like TCU be a viable option? That way the Big 10 can get some games in Texas and possibly start pulling more recruits out of the hotbed that Texas is.

No. Neither TCU nor Utah makes any geographic sense whatsoever. If we're going to go the non-BCS route, why wouldn't we add Ball St? Or Miami (OH)? Hell, why not even Boise St?

I think your WI roots may be affecting your judgment on this one.

 

[Son of a Badger]

This is true. However, they would stand to gain greatly, both monetarily and in terms of academic prestige, from a move to the Big Ten. And we all know that money rules the world.



Is the Big Ten planning on kicking Illinois out? Do you have a link?



No. Neither TCU nor Utah makes any geographic sense whatsoever. If we're going to go the non-BCS route, why wouldn't we add Ball St? Or Miami (OH)? Hell, why not even Boise St?

I think your WI roots may be affecting your judgment on this one.

I agree that the Big East would stand to gain from joining the Big 10 I just wonder what is more important, BCS berths (which gives a school 12 million an appearance and prestige in recruiting) or money sharing and being a mediocre team.

In response to the Native American thing, there is a reason why the Gophers will never play the University of North Dakota in anything but hockey and it is because they are already in the WCHA. I'm not sure how teams are added to the league do all teams vote? If so according to the policy the University of Minnesota has made, they will not add any offensive names (which means they shouldn't add Notre Dame as I am offended by the Fighting Irish name seeing as I'm Irish Catholic....jk)

Did Penn State make sense when they were added? If Texas had joined as mentioned previously, would that have made any sense?

 

[mnboiler]

Personally I think that academic part is more important than most posters are letting to be. Meaning schools like Cincy or Louisville won't get in simply because threr rep isn't good enough. If we are making solely about money Rutgers is the team to add because you tap into the largest TV market in the nation but then again Rutgers is out on the east coast and the Big Ten does to go that far. Plus it would be an extreme strain on athletic budgets around the conference. Basic every school in every sport would have to fly there and that would cost $$$. Same with 'Cuse. So that eliminates Louisville, Cincy, Rutgers, 'Cuse. Maryland has no reason to leave the ACC and it's rivals there. The Ivy leagues falicities are to far behind to get in-although Cornell could be able to get there it would take crazy dollars. I also think the drama that Notre Dame brings is not worth the hassle, also they will try to screw with us just like the Big East in basketball and Wazzou and UConn in football.

That brings it down to Mizzou, Nebraska, and Pitt. Personally the school that brings the entire package together the best it Pitt. Sure Nebraska brings a great football tradition but I have heard there academics are alittle suspect. Mizzou brings in STL and KC but on argue's that Illinios bring in STL. Also Mizzou HATES Kansas and I mean HATE. The only reason I would think they would leave is if they can play Kansas every year. That leaves Pitt. Top notch academics, great basketball team, fringe top 25 football(which is where about 3-4 other Big 10 are traditionally or hope to get to). Doesn't expand travel budgets by an insane amount. They really don't have bunch traditional rivals in the Big East-barring West Virginia, also it would bring back the Penn State Pitt game that used to be a huge game.

 

[WAGopher]

Bring in, let’s say, Missouri, and the split is so:

West
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Missouri
Northwestern
Wisconsin

East
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue

With a split like that, Indiana might as well stop playing football.

 

[Bo Darville]

Buffalo is in the AAU and has 19,000 undergrads. That's more than Nebraska, Pitt, or Syracuse. I think Notre Dame is the only one that makes sense but my gut tells me Rutgers or something weird that breaks the rules like Virginia.

 

[ChemEGopher]

There are only two options that I wouldn't get PO'ed about:
1. Add Notre Dame
2. Kick out Penn St.

 

[ChestHair]

Another "unofficial" rule that I've always heard was that states that once permitted slavery or seceded from the union would not be candidates for inclusion in the Big Ten. I don't know if that's true or not. If so, that would disqualify teams from Kansas and Kentucky as they were both slave states.

Absolutely False. This type of statement would get you kicked in the nuts in Kansas. The entire rivalry between Kansas and Missouri has its roots from the pre-civil war era and the history of Kansas being a free state. Kansas and Missouri were at war over this issue years before the Civil War began. The term Jayhawker comes from a band of abolitionists who gave their lives for Kansas to remain a free state. They also killed a boatload of Missourians. There is a reason Mizzou trash is still referred to as Slavers.

Sorry for the history lesson. I'm sure most/all of you don't care but I read that post and spit up my drink.

Anyway, while Missouri and Nebraska would be fine additions to the Big Ten, I don't see any teams from the Big 8 leaving the Big XII.