Adam Beck Transfering to Texas Tech

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oleboy41 said:
The 'closer' to home thing always trips me out. TTU is 8 hours from his home town which is right outside of Houston. Houston, UTSA, Rice, SMU and North Texas are all far closer and one would assume he's good enough to play at any of those schools. That said I'm sure he has legit reasons, just I've never considered 8 hours close
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Haha I thought the same thing. It's likely easier, cheaper, and quicker to get from HOU -> MSP than from HOU -> Lubbock.
 


John Galt said:
The Beck transfer has been known for a while. The only new information is his landing spot. Should we start foaming at the mouth because a Texas kid who redshirted wanted to move back home after a year?

For those wanting outrage and claiming that Claeys or Kill would have been held to a different standard, let's review their first recruiting class in 2011 and see how many guys transferred out:
https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2011-Football/Commits

Drayquan Crawford
Quinn Bauducco
Quentin Gardener (I'm not sure he ever ended up qualifying)
Max Shortell
Ge'Shun Harris (I think he was the guy caught with a firearm at the airport)
Devin Crawford Tufts (I'm not sure if he transferred or just quit to run track)
Steven Montgomery

That's 7 players that quit or transferred out. I don't remember outrage. It's probably a pretty average number looking back on a class after 5+ years.
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Yeah, nothing new about transferring.

It's just not a good thing when a player who is likely going to be near the top of the depth chart as a FR transfers out.

None of these examples fit.
 

mnsports1 said:
Yes, player retention certainly is a new issue to the U. Keep up the butt hurt Bob.
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How are my feelings hurt? LOL.

Player retention was a huge issue under Brewster. It got considerably better under Kill. It hasn't been great so far under Fleck.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, nothing new about transferring.

It's just not a good thing when a player who is likely going to be near the top of the depth chart as a FR transfers out.

None of these examples fit.
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To follow-up, it's not really about comparing the two staffs.

For the positions where Kill/Claeys had poor player retention (from injury, transferring, not being good enough, etc.) - those turned out to be huge problem areas:
QB (DRM, Streveler, Shortell, Nelson)
OL (Rasmussen, Gjere, Bak)
DL at the end (Hinojosa, Sazwadel, Hall).

Unless the program is top-notch, it's really difficult to overcome a lack of player retention - - especially at positions of need from FR/SO. It's a completely different scenario for Steven Montgomery to leave than it is for Handy-Holley to leave.

A lack of player retention is problematic. I hope this isn't a trend. As of right now, two of his top 4 recruits have left prior to their second year on campus. That is concerning.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It's just not a good thing when a player who is likely going to be near the top of the depth chart as a FR transfers out.
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This is a really good point. Here are the players who appeared on a depth chart at some point last season (meaning they played or were very close to playing), had remaining eligibility for the 2018 season, and are no longer on the team due to transfer/injury/etc.:

Nick Connelly
Demry Croft
Rashad Still
Melvin Holland, Jr.
Zo Craighton
Jaylen Waters
Ken Handy-Holly
Mark Williams
Drew Hmielewski
Will Reger

And this doesn't even include guys like Viramontes, Beck, and Schirck who transferred before they even saw the field. I'm certain that some will say some version of "they suck," "we didn't need them," "they're being replaced by better players," etc., but that's disingenuous at best. There's a lot of missing depth (at minimum) from the above list and it's going to hit us particularly hard in areas like the secondary. As already discussed in this thread, we currently have 3 viable safeties with any major collegiate playing experience. Handy-Holly would've likely started and I assume based on pedigree that Beck would've been playing quite a bit.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This is a really good point. Here are the players who appeared on a depth chart at some point last season (meaning they played or were very close to playing), had remaining eligibility for the 2018 season, and are no longer on the team due to transfer/injury/etc.:

Nick Connelly
Demry Croft
Rashad Still
Melvin Holland, Jr.
Zo Craighton
Jaylen Waters
Ken Handy-Holly
Mark Williams
Drew Hmielewski
Will Reger

And this doesn't even include guys like Viramontes, Beck, and Schirck who transferred before they even saw the field. I'm certain that some will say some version of "they suck," "we didn't need them," "they're being replaced by better players," etc., but that's disingenuous at best. There's a lot of missing depth (at minimum) from the above list and it's going to hit us particularly hard in areas like the secondary. As already discussed in this thread, we currently have 3 viable safeties with any major collegiate playing experience. Handy-Holly would've likely started and I assume based on pedigree that Beck would've been playing quite a bit.
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The loss of Handy-Holly and Beck hurts. And Craighton. Connelly left football due to concussions and we signed Dickson as his replacement. I'm not sure what Fleck could have done differently there. It would also be nice to still have Croft for depth purposes even if he was going to get beat out by Morgan.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, nothing new about transferring.

It's just not a good thing when a player who is likely going to be near the top of the depth chart as a FR transfers out.

None of these examples fit.
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Of course it's not.

A lot of my examples absolutely fit. Shortell started a few games and was in the mix at QB. He could have provided some depth at a minimum. Crawford-Tufts was viewed as the speed WR that we so desperately needed. He started a few games and had a few big catches that helped us beat Iowa. I'd say both of those guys fit in the Handy-Holly/Beck category.
 



John Galt said:
The loss of Handy-Holly and Beck hurts. And Craighton. Connelly left football due to concussions and we signed Dickson as his replacement. I'm not sure what Fleck could have done differently there. It would also be nice to still have Croft for depth purposes even if he was going to get beat out by Morgan.
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I think there will always be a percentage of people you lose that are completely outside of your control. They have nothing to do with poor scouting, poor development, etc. It's just difficult circumstances. With that being the case, it is really important for programs like the U to minimize the amount of preventable/foreseeable departures. From the outside, it might be impossible to always know which is preventable and which isn't, you sort of have to read the tea leaves.

The transfers of Beck, VV, and Handy-Holly were bad losses.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This is a really good point. Here are the players who appeared on a depth chart at some point last season (meaning they played or were very close to playing), had remaining eligibility for the 2018 season, and are no longer on the team due to transfer/injury/etc.:

Nick Connelly
Demry Croft
Rashad Still
Melvin Holland, Jr.
Zo Craighton
Jaylen Waters
Ken Handy-Holly
Mark Williams
Drew Hmielewski
Will Reger

And this doesn't even include guys like Viramontes, Beck, and Schirck who transferred before they even saw the field. I'm certain that some will say some version of "they suck," "we didn't need them," "they're being replaced by better players," etc., but that's disingenuous at best. There's a lot of missing depth (at minimum) from the above list and it's going to hit us particularly hard in areas like the secondary. As already discussed in this thread, we currently have 3 viable safeties with any major collegiate playing experience. Handy-Holly would've likely started and I assume based on pedigree that Beck would've been playing quite a bit.
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Ok...Connelly, Zo, and Handy-Holly are the only players from that list that would likely make a difference on this years team. We can add Beck too. The rest are non-factors. And of those Connelly's was health related, and so was Zo's to an extent. We don't know how well he'll bounce back from his ACL.
 

hungan1 said:
As opposed to the counseling available to the general student population.
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Why? There are plenty of students who fall in this same category...and they don't have anywhere near the built in support that student athletes have from the athletic department.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ok...Connelly, Zo, and Handy-Holly are the only players from that list that would likely make a difference on this years team. We can add Beck too. The rest are non-factors. And of those Connelly's was health related, and so was Zo's to an extent. We don't know how well he'll bounce back from his ACL.
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Wasn't the question about depth?
 



PMWinSTP said:
Wasn't the question about depth?
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Our new world is that depth doesn't matter, but we also should have low expectations, partly because of a lack of depth.

Kind of weird, I know.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Our new world is that depth doesn't matter, but we also should have low expectations, partly because of a lack of depth.

Kind of weird, I know.
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Half that list are WRs who can’t catch. We saw how much that WR depth helped us the last 2 games of the season.
 

If this the direction that all college sports are heading, it's going to mean ever-changing rosters.

Whether kids are leaving because of homesickness, lack of playing time, don't like the school, don't like the coaches, broke up with girlfriend, etc, it means that coaches will truly be recruiting year-round. You'll have to have options and back-up plans if and when kids leave.

And how will this impact roster limits, available scholarships, etc?

The thing to watch is whether certain programs are hit harder by this than others. There may be a few kids who transfer from the helmet schools in search of playing time, but in general, I would expect more transfers from teams that are struggling, as they seek a better or more stable situation.

Every team may have to have a coach or staffer whose full-time job is "keeping the players happy so they don't leave."
 

So I've been a fairly open supporter of P. J. Fleck. I really think he is going to do good things here. But one thing about Beck's quote that I find a little troubling is when he says:

As for anyone wondering why, I'm going to leave it at family and need to be closer to home.
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Maybe he's just young and doesn't understand innuendo but that makes it sound like:

I didn't like my situation at Minnesota, but I've been advised not to bash them, so I'm not telling anyone the real reason and I'll just throw out the old "family/home" excuse.
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I still support PJF. I still think he's going to do something great here. But my confidence level drops a little bit each time something like Beck, VV, assistants leaving, etc. happens.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
So I've been a fairly open supporter of P. J. Fleck. I really think he is going to do good things here. But one thing about Beck's quote that I find a little troubling is when he says:



Maybe he's just young and doesn't understand innuendo but that makes it sound like:



I still support PJF. I still think he's going to do something great here. But my confidence level drops a little bit each time something like Beck, VV, assistants leaving, etc. happens.
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Or maybe it means he's not going to get into the details simply because family situations are personal?
 

PMWinSTP said:
Why? There are plenty of students who fall in this same category...and they don't have anywhere near the built in support that student athletes have from the athletic department.
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Facetiously, to protect their multi-million dollar investment in athletics.

That said, there is increasing demand for counseling in the student population including poverty as was reported in the news recently. More so than what is available is needed. Is college education is increasingly becoming out of reach to future generations?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
If this the direction that all college sports are heading, it's going to mean ever-changing rosters.

Whether kids are leaving because of homesickness, lack of playing time, don't like the school, don't like the coaches, broke up with girlfriend, etc, it means that coaches will truly be recruiting year-round. You'll have to have options and back-up plans if and when kids leave.

And how will this impact roster limits, available scholarships, etc?

The thing to watch is whether certain programs are hit harder by this than others. There may be a few kids who transfer from the helmet schools in search of playing time, but in general, I would expect more transfers from teams that are struggling, as they seek a better or more stable situation.

Every team may have to have a coach or staffer whose full-time job is "keeping the players happy so they don't leave."
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I know Alabama has a lot of transfers. They get a lot of highly rated kids out of high school but not everyone can start so a lot transfer away to go somewhere where they can play more.
 

hungan1 said:
Facetiously, to protect their multi-million dollar investment in athletics.

That said, there is increasing demand for counseling in the student population including poverty as was reported in the news recently. More so than what is available is needed. Is college education is increasingly becoming out of reach to future generations?
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*Tangent and Hot Take Warning*

About 3/4 of major mental illness presents by the mid 20s. Given the expanded college population, the explosion of depression in young people second to social media, less independence/extended adolescence due to fewer responsibilities/jobs and helicopter parenting in their teens, and yeah the need for counselors is probably at an all time high. In a nutshell, adolescent kids and young adults have always been psychologically fragile and immature but that is getting worse. That said, I’m not sure athletes should have a bulkhead vs the general student population. They have some major advantages (built in social networks, etc) and some disadvantages during season (travel, training hours).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
To follow-up, it's not really about comparing the two staffs.

For the positions where Kill/Claeys had poor player retention (from injury, transferring, not being good enough, etc.) - those turned out to be huge problem areas:
QB (DRM, Streveler, Shortell, Nelson)
OL (Rasmussen, Gjere, Bak)
DL at the end (Hinojosa, Sazwadel, Hall).

Unless the program is top-notch, it's really difficult to overcome a lack of player retention - - especially at positions of need from FR/SO. It's a completely different scenario for Steven Montgomery to leave than it is for Handy-Holley to leave.

A lack of player retention is problematic. I hope this isn't a trend. As of right now, two of his top 4 recruits have left prior to their second year on campus. That is concerning.
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I don't think any of the QBs that left started a game at a P5 school. They had a chance here and walked away to play FCS ball....good for them
 

If starters were regularly transferring I'd be concerned, but this is normal and people get so worked up by it. We have Alabama and Florida transfers on the roster. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the coach or the team or the program. Things just don't work out sometimes.
 

Huff is an experienced fourth year guy who Fleck has praised.

Winfield is an experienced returning starter third year guy who Fleck has praised.

Calvin Swenson got some experience last year looked very good in spring game. I am guessing he is scholarshipped for his third year on team.

Fourth year senior returning starter Shenault could move to safety if Florida transfer/fourth year Williamson is as good as advertised.

That is a good two deep.

Sapp was a best in the nation type talent before injuries and gets very nice reviews by Mike Grant. He will compete to be in the two deep.

CJ Smith has size, speed to play safety.

Huff, Winfield, Swenson, Shenault, Sapp, Smith, (Aune?) is a good 6-7 deep.

If Estes, Durr, Harris or T Smith pick up their games, they could play corner opposite Kiondre, freeing up Williamson to go to safety.

Winfield was solid as a true frosh in 9-4 2016. Ced Thompson, Derek Wells, Antonio Johnson, Damarius Travis all played as frosh.

That's 8u options for safety.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I know Alabama has a lot of transfers. They get a lot of highly rated kids out of high school but not everyone can start so a lot transfer away to go somewhere where they can plan more.
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We need an Alabama rejects pipeline....
 


swingman said:
Huff is an experienced fourth year guy who Fleck has praised.

Winfield is an experienced returning starter third year guy who Fleck has praised.

Calvin Swenson got some experience last year looked very good in spring game. I am guessing he is scholarshipped for his third year on team.

Fourth year senior returning starter Shenault could move to safety if Florida transfer/fourth year Williamson is as good as advertised.

That is a good two deep.

Sapp was a best in the nation type talent before injuries and gets very nice reviews by Mike Grant. He will compete to be in the two deep.

CJ Smith has size, speed to play safety.

Huff, Winfield, Swenson, Shenault, Sapp, Smith, (Aune?) is a good 6-7 deep.

If Estes, Durr, Harris or T Smith pick up their games, they could play corner opposite Kiondre, freeing up Williamson to go to safety.

Winfield was solid as a true frosh in 9-4 2016. Ced Thompson, Derek Wells, Antonio Johnson, Damarius Travis all played as frosh.

That's 8u options for safety.
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Respectfully, many of those guys you mentioned aren't even close to big enough to play safety. Yes, technically they could play safety, much in the same way that technically Michael Jordan could play baseball.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Respectfully, many of those guys you mentioned aren't even close to big enough to play safety. Yes, technically they could play safety, much in the same way that technically Michael Jordan could play baseball.
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247 has movein weights for Sapp at 193, T Smith at 190, CJ Smith at 185, Aune at 200. Three months in Gophers nutrition and strength program can put 5-10 on all of them.

Roster has Shenault at 192, Williamsom at 191. Fleck has mentioned Shenault at safety. Williamson played safety at Florida.

aWho are the many of those guys you are concerned about not being big enough?
 


dpodoll68 said:
Respectfully, many of those guys you mentioned aren't even close to big enough to play safety. Yes, technically they could play safety, much in the same way that technically Michael Jordan could play baseball.
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AVG size of S in D1 is 6'/200 lbs.
 

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