Active Shooter at Michigan State University

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atsgopher said:
Well, if it helps this is just availability bias. Mass shootings are hard to take, and school shootings are emotionally worse.

However, there are 14,500 homicides by firearm in the US per year. About 100 will be killed during mass shootings.

The probability of dying in a school shooting is almost zero. They just stick with us so much.

The media is really the culprit. In the 1990s the FBI notes 13 mass shootings. From 2000-2020 the FBI noted 13 mass school shootings.

When one considers that some of these events are the results of them being contagious (literally), one of the best things to do is refrain from consuming any news involving a mass shooter.
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Blame the media - IMO incredibly disrespectful to the victims and their families and friends.

In Very poor taste, if you are trying to make some political point based on supposition and no facts, like you’re an expert Alex.
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
Blame the media - IMO incredibly disrespectful to the victims and their families and friends.

In Very poor taste, if you are trying to make some political point based on supposition and no facts, like you’re an expert Alex.
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How come you think I’m talking politics?

I’m talking psychology. See Robert Cialdini’s the psycholy of influence. Specifically focus on social contagions.

There is a some logical Inference required, As I’m extrapolating for the affects proven for suicide. That ones been replicated multiple times.
 

atsgopher said:
How come you think I’m talking politics?

I’m talking psychology. See Robert Cialdini’s the psycholy of influence. Specifically focus on social contagions.

There is a some logical Inference required, As I’m extrapolating for the affects proven for suicide. That ones been replicated multiple times.
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Blaming the media is a political trope nowadays and much more well known than your psychological reference; additionally, I said “if you were doing so,” i.e. the opposite of a declarative statement - if it doesn’t apply bro, let it fly.
 



formerlybis said:
I think your numbers are off. They've been reporting that this is the 67th mass shooting in 2023, and it's Feb. 15. Minimizing the problem is really perverted.
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No, my post was on mass shootings that occurred in schools. Obviously, that’s a sub set. My apologies as that was not clear, due to my lead in phrase.

I was answering the question, how much should I worry about my kid dying in a school shooting.

I’m not married to that data. Its Suppossed to be from FBI. I do believe they omit College and universities.

The 67 (71 by the time you posted) concerns all shootings where 4 or more were shot irrrespective of result.

As far as the perversion: had I deliberately misstated, either direction because I want data to somehow support my political leanings, that would be preverse.
 


Athletics resuming. Still don’t think this gets played. Though MSU has incentive to play it as it’s a home game against one of the worst power 5 teams in the country. Maybe they’d push for a back to back on Feb 27

msuspartans.com

Feb. 18 Update on MSU Athletics Events - Michigan State University Athletics

After discussions with mental health professionals and university leadership, and in consultation with Spartan student-athletes and staff, Michigan State athletics
msuspartans.com msuspartans.com
 



mnsportsgeek said:
Athletics resuming. Still don’t think this gets played. Though MSU has incentive to play it as it’s a home game against one of the worst power 5 teams in the country. Maybe they’d push for a back to back on Feb 27

msuspartans.com

Feb. 18 Update on MSU Athletics Events - Michigan State University Athletics

After discussions with mental health professionals and university leadership, and in consultation with Spartan student-athletes and staff, Michigan State athletics
msuspartans.com msuspartans.com
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I think they’ll shuffle the deck & change the dates of a couple other games to fit it in without either team having to play back to back.

Just a hunch, but with MSU-Michigan playing as scheduled I have to believe part of the deal was the Big Ten assured MSU the MSU-Gophers game would be made up.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I think they’ll shuffle the deck & change the dates of a couple other games to fit it in without either team having to play back to back.

Just a hunch, but with MSU-Michigan playing as scheduled I have to believe part of the deal was the Big Ten assured MSU the MSU-Gophers game would be made up.
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I don't think I've ever seen a situation where something like this went unresolved for this length of time. This is total speculation, but I'm guessing there's been some internal conflict within MSU, with some wanting to cancel and others, perhaps including the coach/program, wanting to play the game, not wanting to sacrifice the almost certain win. Or maybe I'm way off and this is totally in the hands of the league, and they've been slow to resolve it because a solution is elusive.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I don't think I've ever seen a situation where something like this went unresolved for this length of time. This is total speculation, but I'm guessing there's been some internal conflict within MSU, with some wanting to cancel and others, perhaps including the coach/program, wanting to play the game, not wanting to sacrifice the almost certain win. Or maybe I'm way off and this is totally in the hands of the league, and they've been slow to resolve it because a solution is elusive.
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They weren't even sure they were going to play the Michigan game until yesterday, so to me it makes sense they haven't worked out making up the Minnesota game yet.

Just from viewing Izzo's comments, both at the Campus gathering in #39 and from a press conference yesterday (on SportsCenter, excerpt below), I don't think he is pushing one way or another.

Basketball is still pretty secondary at this point. At face value, he mentions that part of the decision to play was in some part to assist with the healing process.

www.espn.com

Izzo: Playing again is way to honor MSU victims

Michigan State men's basketball coach Tom Izzo said it was clear his team wanted to "get back on the floor" this week in the wake of a fatal campus shooting.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

As for rescheduling the Gopher game, I won't be surprised whether it get's played or not. It's unchartered territory, and the calendar is working against everyone. A Quad 4 win isn't going to move the needle for the Spartans, can only hurt them in terms of NCAA seeding. It would help in the Big 10 standings and gate, but maybe rest is more "valuable".
 

I think MSU will regret if they don't get the game in and lose a double bye. I assume 13-7 would get a higher seed over 12-7 right? That's really the only reason I can see them pushing to play it. If they don't care about the double bye then I wouldn't go through the headache of forcing the game to be played.
 



mnsportsgeek said:
I think MSU will regret if they don't get the game in and lose a double bye. I assume 13-7 would get a higher seed over 12-7 right? That's really the only reason I can see them pushing to play it. If they don't care about the double bye then I wouldn't go through the headache of forcing the game to be played.
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A double bye in the BTT (while nice to have) seems really minor in the grand scheme of things in East Lansing, from my perspective.

Like the Bengals-Bills NFL game not being made up, the Spartans-Gophers not playing seems totally reasonable. If they do play, that's fine too.
 

Ope3 said:
A double bye in the BTT (while nice to have) seems really minor in the grand scheme of things in East Lansing, from my perspective.

Like the Bengals-Bills NFL game not being made up, the Spartans-Gophers not playing seems totally reasonable. If they do play, that's fine too.
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If MSU feels that way I don't have an issue. I'd prefer to be embarrassed one less time than needed to be honest.

Get the sense that they're in the drivers seat on decision making here and we are just along for the ride. Wouldn't even fault Ben for forfeiting if the B1G makes us play.
 
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If they're going to re-schedule, I would think we hear something in the next 24 hours. It will necessitate moving the MSU-Nebraska game on 2/28 to Wednesday or Thursday.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Blame the media - IMO incredibly disrespectful to the victims and their families and friends.

In Very poor taste, if you are trying to make some political point based on supposition and no facts, like you’re an expert Alex.
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I could be wrong too, but I don't think you were understanding his point. I don't think atsgopher was trying to imply that the media was responsible for this particular act. I think what he was trying to convey is that when there is a shooting, and it gets days and days of attention all over the place, it makes it more enticing for someone who was/is considering a similar action.

Kinda like if you are baby sitting a bunch of kids and you keep paying attention to the one who acts out. Pretty soon the other kids start acting out too. But if you ignore the kid that acts out, it's much less likely that another kid will act out.

So, mention it in a headline, and move on. Don't keep it front and center for any length of time.

And my apologies if I was completely off from what atsgopher meant!
 

atsgopher said:
No, my post was on mass shootings that occurred in schools. Obviously, that’s a sub set. My apologies as that was not clear, due to my lead in phrase.

I was answering the question, how much should I worry about my kid dying in a school shooting.

I’m not married to that data. Its Suppossed to be from FBI. I do believe they omit College and universities.

The 67 (71 by the time you posted) concerns all shootings where 4 or more were shot irrrespective of result.

As far as the perversion: had I deliberately misstated, either direction because I want data to somehow support my political leanings, that would be preverse.
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The post in question read like "one shouldn't be concerned about mass shootings because only 100 people die in those compared to the 14.5k others who die by gun violence". Whether the data are accurate or not, that word I bolded (which you never used, but seemed implied) is what makes this perverse, whether intentional or not, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I mean, only 3,000 people died on 9/11 out of the 100s of thousands of other people who died that year - accurate data, right? But, perverse to minimize the event.
 

formerlybis said:
The post in question read like "one shouldn't be concerned about mass shootings because only 100 people die in those compared to the 14.5k others who die by gun violence". Whether the data are accurate or not, that word I bolded (which you never used, but seemed implied) is what makes this perverse, whether intentional or not, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I mean, only 3,000 people died on 9/11 out of the 100s of thousands of other people who died that year - accurate data, right? But, perverse to minimize the event.
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Yes, I was thinking of 100 in it’s position in A numerator vs it as acceptable loss. Especially, when considering its position in a probability calc.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
I could be wrong too, but I don't think you were understanding his point. I don't think atsgopher was trying to imply that the media was responsible for this particular act. I think what he was trying to convey is that when there is a shooting, and it gets days and days of attention all over the place, it makes it more enticing for someone who was/is considering a similar action.

Kinda like if you are baby sitting a bunch of kids and you keep paying attention to the one who acts out. Pretty soon the other kids start acting out too. But if you ignore the kid that acts out, it's much less likely that another kid will act out.

So, mention it in a headline, and move on. Don't keep it front and center for any length of time.

And my apologies if I was completely off from what atsgopher meant!
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Yes, something to this affect. There’s a social contagion element - I think.
 

mnsportsgeek said:
If MSU feels that way I don't have an issue. I'd prefer to be embarrassed one less time than needed to be honest.

Get the sense that they're in the drivers seat on decision making here and we are just along for the ride. Wouldn't even fault Ben for forfeiting if the B1G makes us play.
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Michigan State would probably be the one pushing to not play. A no contest would suck but not be the end of the world. A loss to us would be pretty detrimental to them.
 

Izzo said the best option he’s heard would involve Michigan State playing Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday to end the season. The Spartans have a game scheduled at Nebraska next Tuesday and a regular-season finale against Ohio State on Saturday, March 4. That makes Thursday, March 2 the potential make-up date against Minnesota.

Minnesota has a game scheduled against Rutgers that day but Izzo mentioned that the Scarlet Knights have been involved in rescheduling discussions. Both teams’ schedules would allow Rutgers-Minnesota to potentially move to Tuesday, Feb 28 to make room for Minnesota-Michigan State two days later.

Izzo mentioned that any potential scenario being discussed is “not etched in stone.”

www.mlive.com

Michigan State hopes to make up game vs. Minnesota but schedule could get crowded

Michigan State is hoping to still play a game against Minnesota that was postponed in the aftermath of an on-campus shooting
www.mlive.com www.mlive.com
 

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