AAU vs. Highschool recruiting

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UpAndUnder43 said:
I saw Tyus Jones sleep walk to 35ish against Rosemount. Tyus could have scored 50ppg in high school. He chose not to. EYBL he was great but had to try to be great. Couldn’t just walk into the gym knowing the other team had no one who could possibly defend him.
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I also saw Tyus and Joey King go point for point with each other and saw JP Macura 100% outplay him. By all accounts, Tyus is a better player than both King and Macura.
 

MNfootballfan said:
I also saw Tyus and Joey King go point for point with each other and saw JP Macura 100% outplay him. By all accounts, Tyus is a better player than both King and Macura.
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Right. Those two are D1 guys. He also destroyed kids who couldn’t go D3. In EYBL everyone is a future college player caliber
 

tmvander said:
They got the guy they wanted as head coach here.
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Is this actually true??

I would accept as little as a Tweet from a head coach or program director of any of the major clubs around here, saying something to the effect of "this is a great hire!".

Even that isn't "we got who we wanted", though.
 

Remember, Ben graduated HS in 1999.

His relationship with some of the coaches go back to his playing days.
 

Let me put this another way:

what are the actual factors that come into play, for how/why/when an AAU coach or program director decides to attempt to influence one of their player's college decision?
 


MplsGopher said:
Let me put this another way:

what are the actual factors that come into play, for how/why/when an AAU coach or program director decides to attempt to influence one of their player's college decision?
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Right that's kind of my point too...there is way too much being said about these coaches and the decision process of these kids. I'm sure they can voice whatever they want, but at the end of the day its on the kids. This is why I don't think its that huge of a deal that our coach has these relationships.

Does it help...of course I'm not saying that, but being a great basketball coach should always come first.
 

It's hard for HS coaches to have as much invested in a players recruitment as an AAU guy for numerous reasons. A lot of it truly has to do with recruiting cycles landing where they do in the calendar year. Playing in the summer when it's truly the college coaches time to solely recruit gives it more value for evaluation.

HS basketball is certainly getting under valued here in this discussion as well, but AAU basically got built up for recruiting purposes. College coaches are still callin the high school coaches however to get basketball info, character reviews, and academic profiles.
 

MplsGopher said:
Let me put this another way:

what are the actual factors that come into play, for how/why/when an AAU coach or program director decides to attempt to influence one of their player's college decision?
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Summer basketball is a cesspool of the highest proportion. Teams are funded by the shoe companies and the expectation is that they deliver kids to the right colleges. There is no accountability in terms of receipts for expense reports to show how the adidas or Nike money is spent by the guys running summer teams, who often are shady as heck.

You see patterns emerge like Minnesota kids-Nuness-Baylor. Gophers even have a relationship with Sunrise Christian, albeit not exclusive. Google the name World Wide Wes and you can see the outsized influence wielded by street agents.

I hope the FBI investigation had the effect of cleaning this mess up, but more likely things will take on a different form.

So many of the families involved don't have a ton of experience and are very impressionable. I've always thought it was a good sign the Gophers have landed kids whose parents know how things work. Bickerstaff, Hollins, Sampson, Coffey, etc.... Nobody was going to trick them into something they didn't realize.
 

SnoopDonkeyKong said:
Summer basketball is a cesspool of the highest proportion. Teams are funded by the shoe companies and the expectation is that they deliver kids to the right colleges. There is no accountability in terms of receipts for expense reports to show how the adidas or Nike money is spent by the guys running summer teams, who often are shady as heck.

You see patterns emerge like Minnesota kids-Nuness-Baylor. Gophers even have a relationship with Sunrise Christian, albeit not exclusive. Google the name World Wide Wes and you can see the outsized influence wielded by street agents.

I hope the FBI investigation had the effect of cleaning this mess up, but more likely things will take on a different form.

So many of the families involved don't have a ton of experience and are very impressionable. I've always thought it was a good sign the Gophers have landed kids whose parents know how things work. Bickerstaff, Hollins, Sampson, Coffey, etc.... Nobody was going to trick them into something they didn't realize.
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I believe every last bit of this, 1 million percent. Every last bit.

That HBO documentary, was so well done. Dawkins put two middle fingers up to the sky, and was happy to tell everyone in this world to F off.


Would you put Oturu in this list, as well? Honestly, would assume any player who chooses the Gophers, as a 4/5* recruit, is knowlingly giving up untold "benefits" in order to make that choice.
 





I think a component that hasn't really been addressed is the role AAU coaches play in educating and guiding families through the recruitment process. Most people only go through a D1 recruiting process once (hell, most high school coaches can count their career D1 recruits on one hand), and it's a very strange world even if it might not seem that way to us hoops junkies.

I played a different sport (ultimately D3 but had some D1 PWO offers), but my club coaches had requirements that we contact X number of coaches at our top choices before the summer season with our planned schedule, and then Y number of coaches who would be in attendance before each event. They had a process for putting film together. They had guides for our parents about NCAA rules, things to look for on visits, information about the financial aid process. My high school coaches? They were able to give a character reference when coaches called, but that was about it.

Through a series of miscommunications, I also ended up meeting with a coach for a third sport. During what ended up being a very awkward conversation, he explicitly told me, "no one cares about high school, tell me about your club experience". Obviously there's not a 1-to-1 mapping between sports, but as a general point, AAU coaches are going to have a bigger role in recruiting because they do it so much more often than anyone else involved in the process.
 

Only sharing my longtime experience. I know and have scouted for coaches who evaluate a great deal in AAU but get to know the player, his family, His friends at the high school. They establish friendships with high school coaches. They steer wide from most AAU guys. There are 25 5 stars. Half are bound for blue bloods and half get outplayed by 4 stars that were evaluated poorly by junk websites.
 



builtbadgers said:
Only sharing my longtime experience. I know and have scouted for coaches who evaluate a great deal in AAU but get to know the player, his family, His friends at the high school. They establish friendships with high school coaches. They steer wide from most AAU guys. There are 25 5 stars. Half are bound for blue bloods and half get outplayed by 4 stars that were evaluated poorly by junk websites.
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This is touching on something I am working on. Recruiting rankings are from giant lists, while ultimate success is dependent upon other things like character, chemistry, and an ability or willingness to get better.

Kevin Noreen & Mike Brusewitz showed rather high on recruiting lists. Jordan Murphy & Nate Mason were slightly lower and became basically Gopher superstars. In fact, Murphy was ranked below Alex Illikainen...a Minnesotan from the same year.
 

SnoopDonkeyKong said:
This is touching on something I am working on. Recruiting rankings are from giant lists, while ultimate success is dependent upon other things like character, chemistry, and an ability or willingness to get better.

Kevin Noreen & Mike Brusewitz showed rather high on recruiting lists. Jordan Murphy & Nate Mason were slightly lower and became basically Gopher superstars. In fact, Murphy was ranked below Alex Illikainen...a Minnesotan from the same year.
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Hundreds of these examples. Plus the websites bump a player up after seeing who the player gave his verbal to. Ty Jerome was 232 when offered, Joe Harris 135, Brogdon 125 . Find winners.
 

builtbadgers said:
Plus the websites bump a player up after seeing who the player gave his verbal to.
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Yes! I remember one of the recruitniks (Bob Gibbons, Clark Francis, someone else?) saying, "if I see they committed to Duke I'll move them up a little."

So how do we explain Aliou Kane? lol
 

MNfootballfan said:
I also saw Tyus and Joey King go point for point with each other and saw JP Macura 100% outplay him. By all accounts, Tyus is a better player than both King and Macura.
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King was two years older than Tyus....and his senior year Lakeville North and Eastview were the best teams in the South Suburban having only lost to each other until the state tournament. Apple Valley lost about 6 games that year in the conference. In TJ senior year Macura scored over 1000 points for the season and his team won the state championship. In TJ freshmen year they got smoked in the section final by Lakeville South. I know the sections were changed and AV moved out of section 1AAAA, but did TJ only make one state tournament (his junior year)?
 

MplsGopher said:
Is this actually true??

I would accept as little as a Tweet from a head coach or program director of any of the major clubs around here, saying something to the effect of "this is a great hire!".

Even that isn't "we got who we wanted", though.
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I am not on twitter, but google “Renee Pulley fox 9 Ben Johnson.” Should net you something. There’s an interview with Renee on what Ben means to MN basketball. Post the interview if you will.

Ben Johnson Played for Howard Pulley with Troy Bell and Perhaps Darius Lane? If I remember correctly there was a big 3 from southside back then. Darius was at Totino, but mot sure if he is the thrid.
 

As Built said, the one thing that HS's offer in the recruiting process is structure. The kids are in class, they practice every day, the games are played on a set schedule. That gives the recruiters some predictability. They can schedule a trip and be sure of seeing a game, and have an opportunity to talk to the coach, maybe the kid's teachers, and build up a lot of background.

So recruiting is a two-track system. lay the foundation on the HS side, then observe the kid on the AAU circuit to see how he operates in a different setting against (most likely) a better caliber of opposition.

You may make the decision to offer or not offer based on summer AAU play, but you most likely determine who you are going to track during the summer based on what you learn from the HS visits.
 

atsgopher said:
I am not on twitter, but google “Renee Pulley fox 9 Ben Johnson.” Should net you something. There’s an interview with Renee on what Ben means to MN basketball. Post the interview if you will.

Ben Johnson Played for Howard Pulley with Troy Bell and Perhaps Darius Lane? If I remember correctly there was a big 3 from southside back then. Darius was at Totino, but mot sure if he is the thrid.
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Jibrahn Ike from St. Anthony was an insane scorer, I believe he was the same year as these guys.

A few years later, some of the Patrick Henry guys (Johnie Gilbert, Lawrence McKenzie, Terry Pettis).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Jibrahn Ike from St. Anthony was an insane scorer, I believe he was the same year as these guys.

A few years later, some of the Patrick Henry guys (Johnie Gilbert, Lawrence McKenzie, Terry Pettis).
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Yes! It was Ike.
 

atsgopher said:
Yes! It was Ike.
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Roseville also had Nick Jacobson at that time. I think he only played 1 season but he went on to have a great career at Utah. Minnesota basketball, especially, the backcourt, was really tough those years. My defensive rating had to be atrocious.
 

atsgopher said:
I am not on twitter, but google “Renee Pulley fox 9 Ben Johnson.” Should net you something. There’s an interview with Renee on what Ben means to MN basketball. Post the interview if you will.
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Thanks! This Tweet confirms that Fox9 did indeed interview Rene for a segment:



But unfortunately they did not post that segment on their channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/fox9/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

If someone has it somehow, would be interested to see it.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
A few years later, some of the Patrick Henry guys (Johnie Gilbert, Lawrence McKenzie, Terry Pettis).
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Plus Zerek Knight, Tyrell Sledge, etc. Those Henry teams were scary in more ways than one.

My HS team (STA) lost to Henry in the AAA title game in 2000 and 2001. My senior year (2002) the MSHSL was sick of us playing in the ship every year and moved us into the same section. Predictably, we met Henry in the section final and lost to them, again. It was played at MPLS North, really a neutral site as you can imagine.
 


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