A look at what the star system has brought to the Gophers

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Bayfieldgopher

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A lot has been posted about the lack of stars attached to Coach Kill's verbals. I, for one, realize that the vast majority of the 5* and 4* recruits ignore the Gophers in favor of the big time programs. But yet some here seem to think that Coach Kill should be able to attract highly rated players to a program that won 3 games last year and has struggled mightly for years. Dream on.

So what value have the past recruits brought to the program to date? I will offer my 2 cents worth showing their Rivals stars rating and their performance to date. My take is that the Gophers have not received the value of the individual star ratings thus far. Of course, some have not reached their potential yet. Maybe Coach Kill can elevate their performance.

Four Star
Cooper-2.5
Green-2
Gray-3
Maresh-0
Pittman-1
Simmons-2.75
Carter-2
Jacobs-2.5

Three Star
Alipate-1
Garin-2
McGhee-2
Hagemann-2
Keise-1
Michel-1
Olson-2
Oreske-2
Singleton-1
Watkins-1
Lewis-1
Stoudamire-3.5
Tinsley-3.5
Willhite-2
Salamon-2
Reeves-2
Lair-3.5
Kirksey-2.5
Eskridge-2.5
Bunders-2.5
Orton-2.5
Wynn-2.5
McKinley-2.5

Two Stars
McKnight-4
Johnson-2
Brandon-1
Grant-2
Bennett-2.5
McGarry-2
Wynn-2.5
 

Like Kill said on Sunday, many 5*'s have reached full potential. They are what they are. I agree that we can expect 2-3*'s until we begin to win. Then we will get some 4*'s. However, from Kill's words, he doesn't care about stars. He evaluates skill, potential, and "want to".

If we start winning, we won't have to have any of these star threads anymore because no one will care. They will just trust the coach and his staff.
 

Very well done. I will not parse your ratings, even though a good portion of posters will. Seems like we do the best with three star players. Hmmm. Is it that three stars work harder, or is it that there are a lot of them? Time will tell. Again, very well done.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
A lot has been posted about the lack of stars attached to Coach Kill's verbals. I, for one, realize that the vast majority of the 5* and 4* recruits ignore the Gophers in favor of the big time programs. But yet some here seem to think that Coach Kill should be able to attract highly rated players to a program that won 3 games last year and has struggled mightly for years. Dream on.

So what value have the past recruits brought to the program to date? I will offer my 2 cents worth showing their Rivals stars rating and their performance to date. My take is that the Gophers have not received the value of the individual star ratings thus far. Of course, some have not reached their potential yet. Maybe Coach Kill can elevate their performance.

Four Star
Cooper-2.5
Green-2
Gray-3
Maresh-0
Pittman-1
Simmons-2.75
Carter-2
Jacobs-2.5

Three Star
Alipate-1
Garin-2
McGhee-2
Hagemann-2
Keise-1
Michel-1
Olson-2
Oreske-2
Singleton-1
Watkins-1
Lewis-1
Stoudamire-3.5
Tinsley-3.5
Willhite-2
Salamon-2
Reeves-2
Lair-3.5
Kirksey-2.5
Eskridge-2.5
Bunders-2.5
Orton-2.5
Wynn-2.5
McKinley-2.5

Two Stars
McKnight-4
Johnson-2
Brandon-1
Grant-2
Bennett-2.5
McGarry-2
Wynn-2.5
Click to expand...


Bayfield, I think this is pretty much right on. One you missed was Hayo who I believe was 4****
 



This is an interesting take but I do think it is partially off....

In my opinion, you cant include any of the players who didn't last in school. You can't count Maresh against the 4 star kids without including Rengel in with the 3 star kids. Unless there can be some correlation (i've never seen it) to suggest that 4 star kids are less likely to stay in school than 3 star kids...

K. Cooper - currently: 2.5, projection: 4
Gray - currently: 2.5, projection: 4
Green- currently: 2, projection: 2.5
Pittman - 1.5
Traye Simmons - 2

Of the 2008 class, attrition per star rating -
2/7 4 star kids didn't go through school....
7/17 3 star kids didn't finish school.....


My guess is if you looked at the overall production of the 4 star kids, even at the U, they have been more succesful on average than the 3 star kids who were signed.
 

I'm not gonna knock all your ratings but the I have to really disagree with most of the 4 star ratings as I feel you're low rating guys that have only used half of their eligibility and clearly have their best years in front of them

Green started for 2 years and was decent before getting hurt. a 2 is low
Maresh never played here
Gray has only been here 2 years and was a playmaker last year. A 3 may be low
Simmons was one the B10s best corners when used properly and is now in the NFL
Carter played well as a true frosh before getting caught up in the joke of last year. a 2 is low
Coop has been a playmaker and has 2 more years left
Pittman was always hurt
Jacobs was our most consistent DL last year


3 stars may work out better overall but there are about 3 times as many of them as there are 4 star guys. Its no coincidence that most of the most succesful teams get their share of highly rated players and its really not debatable. The better talent we get the better we'll be, but it has to be workable talent. 4 star JUCOS or guys we get because other schools back off on are always big risks
 

Bayfield

I like what you have done but you forgot to rate the teachers and systems that were in place when the players were being evaluated. We all know that these players were attending a "failed school" that was reorganized at the end of last season. We could do a detailed report card on why this occured but we already know that the overall grade was an F. I am willing to go out on a limb and say that these grades will improve a great deal this coming season. Maybe you are evaluating the wrong group of people.
 

On the whole, I would rather have a class of 25 4-stars every year than a class of 25 3-stars. Some will hit and some will miss. But all else being equal I'd be willing to bet the team adding 25 4-stars every year would come out ahead after 5 years than the team adding 25 3-stars.

That whole "all else being equal" thing is the tricky part that we can't achieve.
 



Killjoy said:
I like what you have done but you forgot to rate the teachers and systems that were in place when the players were being evaluated. We all know that these players were attending a "failed school" that was reorganized at the end of last season. We could do a detailed report card on why this occured but we already know that the overall grade was an F. I am willing to go out on a limb and say that these grades will improve a great deal this coming season. Maybe you are evaluating the wrong group of people.
Click to expand...

No question that the development of most of our players has been hampered by a revolving door or coordinators. One of the reasons I was hoping Maturi would stumble onto Coach Kill and hire him was the very strong continuity and loyalty of his coaching staff. That was very important to me and I believe has been a main factor for his success.

Like I said, maybe Coach Kill can bring out the potential of our players more than what we have seen.
 

Bayfield

Bayfieldgopher said:
No question that the development of most of our players has been hampered by a revolving door or coordinators. One of the reasons I was hoping Maturi would stumble onto Coach Kill and hire him was the very strong continuity and loyalty of his coaching staff. That was very important to me and I believe has been a main factor for his success.

Like I said, maybe Coach Kill can bring out the potential of our players more than what we have seen.
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It would be fun and interesting if you did an end of the 2011 season rating just as you did for the 2010 season. The ratings should go up just because of the additional maturity of the players. The interesting question will be how much of the improvement can be attributed to this and how much to the new staff and all the improvements they are bringing to the program.

If you are able to come up with an analytical method to quantify this I will personally call upon MV to name it "The Bayfield Coaching Adjustment Factor". It would put real meaning into the term "coaching them up".

The problem is that “coaching them up” really encompasses all aspects of a football program. Probably the best way of measuring this will be to look at all the 2011 statistics compared to 2010 and see where and how much we have improved from the previous year and during 2011.

I know that coach Kill is warning us, understandably, that this is going to take time. It will, but what he hasn't talked too much about is that it won’t be hard to see the impact of Coach Kill and his staff on this team in 2011. One reason that I feel certain about this is that he has said that nobody will out work them. In the game of football this is significant factor.
 

Bayfield - with all respect to your post (a worthy idea), I think the analysis itself isn't all that fair since a player's star worth isn't actually realized until after he plays his final seasons. Most players aren't actually worthy of 4* rankings until at least their junior years, and they're not expected to be. (For instance, a 4* freshman is likely to be worthy of 2-3 stars his freshman year, 2-4 his sophomore, 3-4 his junior year and 4 by his senior year.)

I think your system would be fairer to make this a list of only graduated players, or players that have left the school. The others shouldn't be expected, yet, to fully live up to their original ratings.
 

cncmin said:
Bayfield - with all respect to your post (a worthy idea), I think the analysis itself isn't all that fair since a player's star worth isn't actually realized until after he plays his final seasons. Most players aren't actually worthy of 4* rankings until at least their junior years, and they're not expected to be. (For instance, a 4* freshman is likely to be worthy of 2-3 stars his freshman year, 2-4 his sophomore, 3-4 his junior year and 4 by his senior year.)

I think your system would be fairer to make this a list of only graduated players, or players that have left the school. The others shouldn't be expected, yet, to fully live up to their original ratings.
Click to expand...

My opinion was based on a "to date" performance only. Yet, I would assume that 4*'s should make an earlier impact than a 2*. I have not been impressed with the overall performance of the 4*'s nor of the past recruits in general which may in part be due to the coaching turnover. Like I said, maybe Coach Kill can get more out them.

FWIW, here is my take on departed players as suggested.

Four Stars
Pittman-1
Simmons-2.75
Carpenter-1

Three Stars
Collado-2.5
Lawrence-3
McKinley-2.5
Sharpe-1
Wills-2.5
Burris-3
Brown-2.5
Weber-3.25

Two Stars
Uu-1
Theret-2.5
Small-2.5
Alford-2
Campbell-3
Buckner-2
Ellestad-2
 



There is also another way to look at how the star system (i used rivals) have played out at MN.

My list is a little less particularily aimed at certain players and looking at the recruiting classes as a whole.

So I looked at all of the players and broke them down into three groups:
(1) Players who got significant run as a starter
(2) Players who played out their careers at MN (even if they didn't start).
- This grouping does include Eskridge and Edwards because I couldn't get myself to put them in the same group as someone like Maresh.
(3) Players who were lost to attrition

From the years of 2006-2009:
2 stars:
14 / 32 kids played their entire careers at the U (44%)
9 / 32 kids got or are getting significant run as a starter (28%)

3 stars:
28 / 47 kids played (in some cases, so far) their entire career at the U (60%)
17 / 47 kids got or are getting sig run as a starter (36%)

4 stars:
8 / 11 kids played or are playing their careers at the U ( 73%)
6 / 11 kids are getting significant run as a starter (55%)


-I really tried not to be bias and I realize that there is more to each individual case than simply 1/3 categories. However, in my opinion, I think this does show that even at the U, even with some of our flops by 4 star kids, and even with a small sample size of 4 star kids......in some ways the recruiting rankings HAVE mattered.
 

I have not looked nor will I at Boise st. and TCU recruiting classes but I would guess they do not get a lot of 4-5 recruits and have won. The Badger program was a dumpster fire for 3 decades until a new coach came in 19 years ago and managed to win 3 rose bowls in his first 7 years. The Badger even now hardly get 4-5 recruits. Kill has integrity, great work ethic, a loyal staff and an offense that can beat any program on any Saturday. As a badger alum, any spread offense,(TCU-rose bowl, NIU) scared the crap out of me vs. a pro style offense. I will take a solid kid, who fits the system and wants to be there over the prima donna, who You have to worry about cars, perks, and going "hollywood" as he is only on campus to go early in the draft, look at the troubles at USC and OSU. I trust Coach Kill will turn this around. He just needs positive press, fan support, and some time. The future is bright.
 

popeyoung5 said:
I have not looked nor will I at Boise st. and TCU recruiting classes but I would guess they do not get a lot of 4-5 recruits and have won.
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True, but both have played in non-BCS conferences until now. You don't need to get a lot of 4-5 star recruits when nearly all of your opponents are playing with low-level 2-stars. You can sneak up and defeat the occasional superior team when you play 1-2 per year, but Boise or TCU would be .500 at best in the SEC or Big Ten. TCU will now be in a BCS conference, and their recruiting has improved accordingly. You can get by for a short while in a BCS conference without superior recruiting, but eventually it will catch up to you. You can build on "system" or "underrecruited talent" for a few years, but eventually, you have to recruit big-time players and steal some from the big boys if you want to compete for titles.

popeyoung5 said:
The Badger even now hardly get 4-5 recruits.
Click to expand...

False. This falls under the old axiom, "Something becomes true if you say it enough times." People want to believe that Wisconsin and Iowa recruit "under-the-radar" type players exclusively and train them up into all-conference/future pro-type players, because then it is easy to believe Minnesota can do the same. While it is true that both do in fact recruit some of these types of players, they are there to supplement the studs that are the centerpieces of their rosters.

Wisconsin's recent recruiting classes, from Rivals:

2012 - 4 4-stars (out of 8 commits so far)
2011 - 3 4-stars
2010 - 0 4-stars
2009 - 5 4-stars
2008 - 3 4-stars
2007 - 1 5-star, 3 4-stars

This means that in the timeframe for players who will be on the field this fall (2007-2011), Wisconsin has recruited 14 4-stars and 1 5-star, all of whom were HS players. In the same timeframe, Minnesota has recruited 10 4-stars and 0 5-stars, but 3 (Maresh, V. Hill, and Lipscomb) were gone shortly after, or even before, they ever set foot on campus, meaning they have 7. It's tough to win when you have half as many 4/5 star players as your competition.
 

dpodoll68 said:
True, but both have played in non-BCS conferences until now. You don't need to get a lot of 4-5 star recruits when nearly all of your opponents are playing with low-level 2-stars. You can sneak up and defeat the occasional superior team when you play 1-2 per year, but Boise or TCU would be .500 at best in the SEC or Big Ten. TCU will now be in a BCS conference, and their recruiting has improved accordingly. You can get by for a short while in a BCS conference without superior recruiting, but eventually it will catch up to you. You can build on "system" or "underrecruited talent" for a few years, but eventually, you have to recruit big-time players and steal some from the big boys if you want to compete for titles.



False. This falls under the old axiom, "Something becomes true if you say it enough times." People want to believe that Wisconsin and Iowa recruit "under-the-radar" type players exclusively and train them up into all-conference/future pro-type players, because then it is easy to believe Minnesota can do the same. While it is true that both do in fact recruit some of these types of players, they are there to supplement the studs that are the centerpieces of their rosters.

Wisconsin's recent recruiting classes, from Rivals:

2012 - 4 4-stars (out of 8 commits so far)
2011 - 3 4-stars
2010 - 0 4-stars
2009 - 5 4-stars
2008 - 3 4-stars
2007 - 1 5-star, 3 4-stars

This means that in the timeframe for players who will be on the field this fall (2007-2011), Wisconsin has recruited 14 4-stars and 1 5-star, all of whom were HS players. In the same timeframe, Minnesota has recruited 10 4-stars and 0 5-stars, but 3 (Maresh, V. Hill, and Lipscomb) were gone shortly after, or even before, they ever set foot on campus, meaning they have 7. It's tough to win when you have half as many 4/5 star players as your competition.
Click to expand...

Wisconsin has done a very good job of getting a few studs (especially at RB and the offensive line) and sprinkling those kids into a program with a very solid foundation where you see a lot of two- and sometimes three-year starters. Iowa is similar, but it's my impression without looking it up (making it likely I am wrong) that they have not done as well at recruiting the skill positions as Wisconsin.
 

Fantasy four and five star high school football recruiting won't happen here...

Take Coach Kill's word for it. Coach Kill needs lots of kids who WANT to be students...WANT to graduate with a BA/BS degree from the U of M...WANT to play football for Coach Kill and his staff and the U of M and have the HEART to take the heat from the fans of fantasy four and five star high school football recruiting freaks, addicts and desciples, when the going gets tough during the first and second seasons of Coach Kill's tenure here at Minnesota. Coach Kill and his staff will find a way to win one or more Big Ten Games in his first season. I would look for the second season to be a bit more competetive in Big Ten play...maybe 2 to 3 Big Ten wins. BUT, there will NOT be a lot of fantasy four star recruits flocking to the U of M.

And, do you know what????? It doesn't matter one bit if there are none of those fantasy five star and phantom fantasy four star recruits. The Golden Gopher Football program will be built by regular kids who want to be college students at the U and want to graduate from the U and want to help build the football program at the U.

It is going to be one heck of a dog fight to make a lot of progress. Slow, steady is what I look for and what I believe Coach Kill and his staff will be looking to achieve here at Minnesota. I BELIEVE they want to do it the RIGHT way and the ONLY way that it can be done here at the U of M.

We 'ain't so much...but...we have GOT potential. We have GOT to find the heart, the desire and the will to get better. Getting better for a football program at the bottom of the Big Ten is a GREAT goal. IF Coach Kill and his staff are going to get it done, it will be because they KNOW there aren't going to be very many of those fantasy phantom five star high school recruits...or even very many of those fantasy four star recruits that are going to be flocking to the football program at the U of M. The stadium will FIANLLY be utilized in a positive way starting with the 2011 season. Thanks to the coaches and players who did the best they could to get the administrators at the U to build the new stadium. Now, the program MUST strive to return to being competetive within the Big Ten Conference.

But, Coach Kill and his staff KNOW how to work with players with potential, heart, a desire to become great students, a desire to become part of a good football team. Coach Kill and his staff know just what to do given REAL players who know they are going to have to work really hard and understand that they have had to work hard all their lives to even be noticed by a Big Ten Football Program...even a program like the University of Minnesota that also has much work to do to build a competetive Big Ten football program.

I can really get behind REAL players who have a lot of heart and have to work really hard and WANT to become the best students they can become and who are REALLY just itching for their team to get a shot at all those fantasy phantom five star hight school football recruits and even all those fantasy four star high school football recruits who are playing at places like Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska, MSU and even iowa and wisky on Big Ten Game Day Saturdays.

There will NOT be a lot of fantasy four and five star high school recruits playing for Coach Kill and his staff. Maybe some of you hate that. Personally, I really LOVE that! Coach Kill and his staff KNOW what to expect here at Minnesota. This is NOT Texas. This is NOT Ohio State. This is NOT PSU or Michigan...or Nebraska. This is Minnesota. Minnesota was NOT born with a 113,000 seat fan filled Big House...or all that goes with a football crazy Game Day Lincoln or Columbus or State College, PA type environment. No fantasy high school football recruiting is going to change that any time soon...or EVER. We are who we are. We are how we are. We are what we are. And that has some potential! I like being a part of a place that has some potential...there are no short-cuts. It's going to be tough going plenty of the time. That's ok. That is honest. That is going to be the fun of being a Golden Gopher Football Fan starting in 2011. I really do think that this program DOES have some potential. Potential plus integrity, honesty, hard work, a little luck and a LOT of heart really is one hell of a fine thing! It is somthing to show up for at those games. It really is something to be proud of. It is worth sticking around for...

Coach Kill: NEVER let the fantasy five star and fantasy four star recruiting fanatics and freaks get you down!!!!!

; 0 )
 

So I take it Wren would prefer to not have Andre McDonald.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
So I take it Wren would prefer to not have Andre McDonald.
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Yeah, and only "regular kids" can "work hard" and "help build the football program". Those "fantasy" four- and five-star recruits are all prima donnas who aren't interested in working and bettering themselves.

I've been waiting for several weeks now to hear from Wren as to why he uses the ridiculous term "fantasy". If there is some fantasy recruiting league that I don't know about, I'd love to be a part of it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This means that in the timeframe for players who will be on the field this fall (2007-2011), Wisconsin has recruited 14 4-stars and 1 5-star, all of whom were HS players. In the same timeframe, Minnesota has recruited 10 4-stars and 0 5-stars, but 3 (Maresh, V. Hill, and Lipscomb) were gone shortly after, or even before, they ever set foot on campus, meaning they have 7. It's tough to win when you have half as many 4/5 star players as your competition.
Click to expand...

I just scanned the Wisconsin roster and five of their 4 star players are not on the roster. I do not know when they left the program, but that drops them down to 9. I just wanted to give a better comparison in regard to players that have left the program.
 

To continue this conversation in regards to recruiting and other subjects related to CFB, I highly recommend the following book by Stewart Mandel: "Bowls, Polls, & Tattered Souls" (copyright 2007). Was wondering if anyone on GH has read it and their thoughts on the book as a whole?

Chapter 6 is entitled "Ivasion of the Recruiting Geeks" (pp. 136-157).

In this chapter he outlines flaws in the ranking systems that seem to repeat themselves every year by citing 4 patterns and looks at "Coach them up / develop talent vs talent itself".

Although there are a number of statements and conclusions in this chapter that resonate with me in relation to this topic. A couple that stand out are quoted below.

First "No matter how carefully a recruit is scrutinized, there's absolutely no way to guarantee he will successfully make the transition to college. Therefore, it's always a fun and enlightening exercise to take a look back at a list of top-ranked recruits from four or five years earlier to see which ones panned out and which ones didn't." (p. 142) He then divides the Top 25 players from a class and puts them into 3 classifications: superstars, starters, and busts.

Second, "As any coach or analyst will tell you, the job of trying to predict which raw, largely underdeveloped seventeen-year-olds will one day morph into Heisman winners and All-Americans and which ones will become benchwarmers or washouts is about as scientific an edeavor as dating.......Just as a dreamy-eyed bachelor has no way of predicting in 3 years' time his womanly gem will have packed on 20 lbs, sent him spiraling into credit card debt, and spent one too many late nights screaming at her overbearing mother, coaches have no way of knowing his can't miss receiver will struggle to learn the playbook, get drunk at a frat party and punch out an unsuspecting freshman, or suffer a devastating leg injury while running a basic crossing pattern in a largely meaningless game against Akron." (Ibid)

Again, as stated in the Thread on Leach, it is great to be aboard.
Stay cool everyone.
Buck
 

loblaw_bob: Who is Andre McDonald? Is he some high school fantasy recruit that you..

Bob_Loblaw said:
So I take it Wren would prefer to not have Andre McDonald.
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follow around?

I guess that if he is a young high school kid, he would be well-served to spend lots of time talking with his parents about where he wants to go, do lots of research, explore his options and then apply at the college he really wants to obtain a college BA/BS from.


I hope all young high school kids have a good plan for deciding where they would like to go to college.

Just as with all young kids trying to decide where to go to college, I hope it works out well for him.

I can't believe the way that some of you folks appear to "cyber-stalk" some of these young high school perspective student athletes. It somehow doesn't seem very healthy...productive....and probably doesn't play any positive role in promoting the Unviersity of Minnesota to perspective students.

Let the kids be the kids. If they have options, they need to explore their options, I would think. Kids are kids and kids need their famlies and trusted teachers, coaches and other important relationships to interact with them about these kinds of choices.

I think the Unviersity of Minnesota has a lot to offer perspective students...a LOT of potential! I also know that many colleges and universities have a lot to offer perspective students...including potential. If this individual has choices, what a wonderful position for this perspective student. I am sure that this student would do well by deciding to study at the Unviersity of Minnesota. It really is not anything to worry about. Thousands and thousands of high school juniors and seniors are trying to decide where they would like to go to college. It's a great process and provides a youngster a chance to grow, mature and make a decision.

If this perspective student decides not to attend the U of M, it will also not be the end of the world and it will merely open the door for some other perspective student. It is totally up to each perspective student to decide what school will be the best for him or her.

And...to the fantasy high school football recruiting freaks and addicts who can't stand the thought of a kid going somewhere else...it happens. If it happens, it's not the end of the world. You win a few...you lose a lot. But, until four or five years down the line...you don't really know if you really lost or if it really didn't matter nearly as much as you thought it MIGHT have mattered at the time. In fantasy high school football recruiting...ALL the fantasy phantom five stars and even the more common fantasy four stars are ALL really big, can't miss, gotta have, fantasy hight school football recruits. But...life just doesn't always work out that way...


"...and so it goes..."

; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
I think the Unviersity of Minnesota has a lot to offer perspective students...a LOT of potential! I also know that many colleges and universities have a lot to offer perspective students...including potential.
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I wish the U offered potential when I attended. But that's just my prospective.

When the scotch flows, Wren rolls.
 

I find it disappointing that posters are not able to see the value in stars/offers when it comes to recruits. Instead of assigning arbitrary new "ratings" to kids who have not even finished their careers, why not look back at all the kids we recruited who were 2 or 3 starts (more 2's than 3's) over the last 15 years. There's a much bigger sample size to observe and we have the results on the field (not good) to provide a final analysis.

Over the long term, the higher rated kids/kids with better offers outperform the lower rated kids. I am not excited at all about bringing in a class that contains a lot of kids without BCS offers. Sure their likely will be an Eric Decker, Greg Eslinger, etc type player in the class, but their will also be plenty of Samad Cain's, Jimmy Thompson's and Chris Mensen's if history is any indication.
 

Wren said: "Thousands and thousands of high school juniors and seniors are trying to decide where they would like to go to college. It's a great process and provides a youngster a chance to grow, mature and make a decision."

Many 4* and 5* rated football players have one thing in mind. Playing in the NFL and making mega bucks. A college degree is secondary. I'm not saying that I agree with that but it is a huge factor in deciding where to play football.

Why didn't CDH Floyd go to the UM? Because he wants to compete against better athletes in practice to best prepare him for the NFL. Same with CDH Henderson.

Coach Kill is focusing on the lesser talented athletes as he realizes he may not get any of the top rated players. Plus he is emphasizing academics. The UM is a good school for that but a lot of kids gravitate to the successful football programs.

What many young kids don't realize is that a college degree is most important as they are always one play or one practice away from the end of their dream.
 

Metric or American Standard

I admire your attempt at using the star system to rate the Gopher players. I just don't think it really works. For one, the measures for the star system are based on tangibles, like timed shuttles, and I could only guess at what you are basing your numbers upon. It is a fun mental exercise.
 

Bayfield: the primary reason I like Coach Kill so much is due to the fact...

that he knows that he has landed at the University of Minnesota. He knows what our history has been...the ancient great history and then the forty years of WALKING IN THE WILDERNESS. He undoubtedly has studied that the only way to really start to improve the football program at the University of Minnesota is to make the most of the players who are here when he arrived by instilling discipline, allowing the process that the NCAA currently dictates to weed out academic casualties and be sure to replace those academic casualties with kids who WANT to succeed academically and hopefully have a chance to succeed academically so that they can stay in the program for their entire college career. That would mean four or five years. He realizes that the NCAA academic standards are gradually rising each year.

He realizes he can take GREAT advantage of the new stadium. He also realizes that many of the higher profile athletes from this area very well may be lured away. Some of them have roots and legacies at other Big Ten and or major college football powerhouse programs. He realizes that at least until he can restore the Gopher Football Program to a Big Ten Competetive level that he will be working with players that the fantasy 4 and 5 star high school football recruiting rankings rate at the fantasy 3 star and fantasy 2 star levels. He will also be recruiting "unloved" walk-ons that his experience leads him to believe may have the potential to make the team, contribute to the success of the team and be good, student athletes at the University of Minnesota.

Coach Kill knows that by year number three, he should be able to pull a "Glen Mason" sneak atack on the Big Ten and come up with a 5 Big Ten win...or better season. He will need to do that by driving all these "...fanatical fantasy 4 & 5 star-crossed..." recruitincks around here absolutely crazy with his quiet recruiting and coaching up system that has worked for him every where he has been. Will it work in the Big Ten? Time will tell. But, these fantasy recruitnicks will start bashing and mobbing Coach Kill. (Some of them actually liked that brewster clown ...that kind of bjm-hired brewsteristic b.s. just doesn't cut it over the longer haul.) And, IF the fantasy recruitnicks mob, bash, trash and try to smash Coach Kill...I, of course will be supporting his common sense, old fashioned "ball-coach" presence at the Unviersity of Minnesota. I really do want him to last over ten seasons here and bring Big Ten Competetivness back to the u of M football program.

In the mean while, just get used to watching those "fantasy five star and fantasy four star' recruits go through normal 16, 17 and 18 year old stuff with changing their minds and changing their plans and changing their committments as often as they change their underwear. Let them follow, attempt to attract and wallow in the butt-kissing and the "love" that the big name coaches and power programs promise to give them. The University of Minnesota and Coach Kill can offer some great POTENTIAL for these kids to improve as football players and even more importantly as student athletes. A few of them will possibly be able to see that potential...if all they can see is nfl...most of them are hopeless cases any way...

You can NOT build a program that has been as mismanaged as this program has been mismanaged during the past seven years under the badger joel macturi system of mismanagement of Big Ten Football Programs and Football coaches and their staffs by going out and recruiting phantom fantasy five and four star high school football recruits. No matter what kind of b.s. you try to sell them...they will look at the recent history of the program and head off to where there has been more success lately. Can you blame them? It will take SPECIAL kids who want to be students and football players and most likely want to stay closer to homw to try to be part of the POTENTIAL that the Unviersity of Minnesota has to offer. Coach Kill and his staff are JUST the kind of people to POTENTIATE the student athletes who can see the POTENTIAL at the Unviersity of Minnesota. The U of M under Coach Kill Does have the chance to begin to live up to it's POTENTIAL!

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