3 most overrated Big Ten football coaches ahead of 2024 (3. PJ Fleck, Minnesota)

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1983 said:
Consistent 7 is not going to cut it with his salary. Needs to be 8 minimum every year with a 9 or 10 here and there.
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Isn't his salary right around the middle of the Big Ten? Might even be slightly below the middle with the additions to the conference?

Either way, I don't think that should matter a whole lot unless you're at the top. The expectations should be 8+ most years because of how long he's been at MN IMO.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Isn't his salary right around the middle of the Big Ten? Might even be slightly below the middle with the additions to the conference?

Either way, I don't think that should matter a whole lot unless you're at the top. The expectations should be 8+ most years because of how long he's been at MN IMO.
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Totally agree
 

GophersInIowa said:
Isn't his salary right around the middle of the Big Ten? Might even be slightly below the middle with the additions to the conference?

Either way, I don't think that should matter a whole lot unless you're at the top. The expectations should be 8+ most years because of how long he's been at MN IMO.
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I agree. Even Ferentz won only 7,6 and 6 games in years 7-9. After that it’s been 8+ most years, however he never recaptured that same peak as he had in years 4-6. Remove the Covid year and he’s won 8+ in 9 out of the last 10 though.
 

in all fairness, I think expectations and comparisons have to be viewed through the prism of the new 18-team configuration.

with no divisions, the Gophers are likely going to face more difficult schedules with fewer cupcakes.
this year in Conference games, the Gophers will face only 1 team that had an overall losing record last year. (Illinois)

the Gophers will have to play better on a consistent basis to be an 8-win or 9-win team in the new reality.

this is big-boy, big-time top-of-the-heap college football. do the Gophers deserve to be there? that is the challenge facing Fleck - IMHO the biggest challenge of his coaching career to date.
 

pharmacygopher said:
Isn't that what Nebraska had when they fired Pelini?
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Our expectations are light years away from Nebraska. I don't think they would mind 9 wins a year now but back then, no way. Yes the man did have some antics. People here think 7 wins every year is great.
 


1983 said:
Our expectations are light years away from Nebraska. I don't think they would mind 9 wins a year now but back then, no way. Yes the man did have some antics. People here think 7 wins every year is great.
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This isn't largely true. I think most fans would be disappointed with 7 wins every year.
 


btowngopher said:
I would take an even lower floor as long as we popped for a big season every 3,4,5 years or so.
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If you look just in conference, I think averaging about 5 wins a year would be my expectation. Gonna have a down year here and there where you only win 3. But then would expect a 7+ win season as well.

If we were still in the split east/west situation without these recent additions, I might have a bit higher expectations.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Hasn’t been done here in a long time?! What? You mean just like the previous staff? Kill/Tracy and co won 7-9 games in 3 of their 6 years here after taking over a 3 win team. They won 7-9 games 50% of their tenure. PJ has won 7-9 games in 4 seasons out of 7 after taking over a 9 win team. 57% of his tenure he has won 7-9 games.

If he is such a solid coach then why hasn’t he produced better results considering he has so much more to work with than the previous regime?
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Are you aware that Kill and Claeys are two different coaches?
 




Some guy said:
Are you aware that Kill and Claeys are two different coaches?
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Are you aware that pj has barely been any better than the past regime. So much for taking us to the next step. What a waste of money.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Are you aware that pj has barely been any better than the past regime. So much for taking us to the next step. What a waste of money.
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being better would indeed be the next step. No? ;)


Just your words, not weighing in on either side
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Are you aware that pj has barely been any better than the past regime. So much for taking us to the next step. What a waste of money.
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well kill quit and claeys was a national embarrassment

Time for you to get over it

I too wish fleck won an extra game in 19, 21, 22, and 23

If he won one more game in each of those seasons we are probably all happy
 
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No, Coyle was the national embarrassment. Even the police said no crimes were committed. We were sold a bill of goods that PJ was going to be so much better and it hasn’t really happened. We were supposed to be playing for conference championships. If you think he walks on water then so be it. His record speaks for itself.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
No, Coyle was the national embarrassment. Even the police said no crimes were committed. We were sold a bill of goods that PJ was going to be so much better and it hasn’t really happened. We were supposed to be playing for conference championships. If you think he walks on water then so be it. His record speaks for itself.
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Oh, sweet baby Jesus. Mods can we just ban this guy now? We've seen this play out so many times.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Are you aware that pj has barely been any better than the past regime. So much for taking us to the next step. What a waste of money.
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Waste of money how? I assume you've calculated the salary per win of every coach in the B1G?
 

JoeSchmoe said:
No, Coyle was the national embarrassment. Even the police said no crimes were committed. We were sold a bill of goods that PJ was going to be so much better and it hasn’t really happened. We were supposed to be playing for conference championships. If you think he walks on water then so be it. His record speaks for itself.
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I’m just glad you can finally admit kill and claeys are different people
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Are you aware that pj has barely been any better than the past regime. So much for taking us to the next step. What a waste of money.
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In humor.... you mean the last coach who was fired related to an assault scandal.

There are multiple aspects to being successful. Slightly above par for the school history is acceptable, plus positive intangibles.

Some do not like his rah rah football-fraternity with swag thing.

Next season is a tough schedule. Let's see it happen. Gophers have the run game. On paper they have a good pass game, a 4-star QB and two 4-star receivers. No, they are not all 5's like some schools but they will be good.

Their top transfer portal player is a defensive end. Nobody's even talking about that. Jeez.
 

GopherMarroon said:
In humor.... you mean the last coach who was fired related to an assault scandal.

There are multiple aspects to being successful. Slightly above par for the school history is acceptable, plus positive intangibles.

Some do not like his rah rah football-fraternity with swag thing.

Next season is a tough schedule. Let's see it happen. Gophers have the run game. On paper they have a good pass game, a 4-star QB and two 4-star receivers. No, they are not all 5's like some schools but they will be good.

Their top transfer portal player is a defensive end. Nobody's even talking about that. Jeez.
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I think he gets 2 more years for sure to evaluate how he is adapting to the new B10 and the new rules in the sport. Overall I have been very happy, and outside a couple really frustrating losses I think PJ has coached above the talent level. I am happy with 6-10 wins total and being competitive. I am not delusional that MN is going to turn into a power in the B10.
 

I think/suspect that there is a certain level of fear among some fans that, if Fleck leaves MN for whatever reason, then MN will fall back into the 'wilderness years' of Brewster, Wacker, etc.

from my perspective, MN has at least been respectable under Mason, Kill/Claeys and Fleck. some years more than respectable, but there was a baseline level of competency.

so there is no reason to fear that the entire program will fall apart if Fleck leaves.

Unless you don't trust Coyle to hire the next head coach.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think/suspect that there is a certain level of fear among some fans that, if Fleck leaves MN for whatever reason, then MN will fall back into the 'wilderness years' of Brewster, Wacker, etc.

from my perspective, MN has at least been respectable under Mason, Kill/Claeys and Fleck. some years more than respectable, but there was a baseline level of competency.

so there is no reason to fear that the entire program will fall apart if Fleck leaves.

Unless you don't trust Coyle to hire the next head coach.
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I would agree with this but would add the board of regents and special interests to the last sentence
 

upnorthkid said:
Maryland has won 10 games 7 times ever (and 4 times since 1960). At some point you're just a mediocre football school comparatively. awful lot of colleges grabbing players from there. would probably say that's more indicative of the administration to be that long-standingly bad
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They had 5 seasons of 9 wins or more under Ralph Friedgen who coached there early this century.

I perused a Maryland football thread some years back after they lost to the Gophers. There was a thread centered around the question of "What happened to Maryland football?" There were various ideas about the decline in success but one guy had a very simple explanation: they joined the Big Ten. He went on to say that they simply didn't face the level of overall competition in the ACC that they had to face in the Big Ten, especially the Big Ten East.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
from my perspective, MN has at least been respectable under Mason, Kill/Claeys and Fleck. some years more than respectable, but there was a baseline level of competency.
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Agreed. I didn't become a Gopher football fan until Kill/Claeys so I don't carry the possible psychological baggage from years of watching a doormat. Since I've been a fan, they've mostly been decent although only really good in one year. I think the football program has reached the level where the administration would want to maintain it by hiring an accomplished coach if Fleck left. I'd rather not find out, though, so I hope that's not anytime soon.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Hasn’t been done here in a long time?! What? You mean just like the previous staff? Kill/Tracy and co won 7-9 games in 3 of their 6 years here after taking over a 3 win team. They won 7-9 games 50% of their tenure. PJ has won 7-9 games in 4 seasons out of 7 after taking over a 9 win team. 57% of his tenure he has won 7-9 games.

If he is such a solid coach then why hasn’t he produced better results considering he has so much more to work with than the previous regime?
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Say it ain’t so Joe!
 

Mason’s teams had a great running attack, Kill’s played solid defense, Fleck’s overall style has been maybe even more conservative but with arguably better talent on both sides of the ball. Speaking of style, it matters. Wins are wins but losses are losses. For the love of God I hope the offense finds some playmakers outside of Taylor and Jackson. I pray the defense isn’t a Benny Hill chase routine. Maybe we have someone that can reliably field a punt. I don’t know. Hey, I live for upsets, the underdog, the Cinderella story. I’d love to see another 2019 come out of nowhere, see the emergence of some game breakers. It could happen.
 

God I hate what the media has become.

twist the knife, pick every scab at every opportunity, drive web hits,

Lose 4 rbs, and have a QB who cant throw 5 yds down the field,

Name one big ten coach that would not be 5-7 or worse.
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
They had 5 seasons of 9 wins or more under Ralph Friedgen who coached there early this century.

I perused a Maryland football thread some years back after they lost to the Gophers. There was a thread centered around the question of "What happened to Maryland football?" There were various ideas about the decline in success but one guy had a very simple explanation: they joined the Big Ten. He went on to say that they simply didn't face the level of overall competition in the ACC that they had to face in the Big Ten, especially the Big Ten East.
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Marylands record against big ten west teams

Minnesota 4-3
Iowa 1-3
Nebraska 1-2
Illinois 2-1
Purdue 2-2
Northwestern 1-3
Wisconsin 0-4

vs west
11-18 (38%)

Vs east
16-39

Big ten record since joining
27-57 (32%)



The real thing is Randy Edsall was their version of a Tim Brewster and then they hired Dirkin who was even worse + the bottom of the big ten both East and west is typically better than the bottom of the ACC IMO
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Franklin took over a little bit of a mess. And won the Big Ten in year 3. That should count for plenty. He's gotten PSU to 5 NYD 6 Bowls in 10 years. He's an excellent coach.
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I remember when he was at Vanderbilt - I was living in Atlanta and watched every Vandy game I could because I was certain he was a coach of the future, though I thought he's stay in the SEC.
 

Golden Deuce said:
God I hate what the media has become.

twist the knife, pick every scab at every opportunity, drive web hits,

Lose 4 rbs, and have a QB who cant throw 5 yds down the field,

Name one big ten coach that would not be 5-7 or worse.
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Kirk Ferentz. in 2023
 

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