2024 MN High School Football thread

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MaxyJR1 said:
Now will they stay at 5 districts or go to 4 is the question. Those are all NW schools. Maple Grove stay north or move?

Possible alignment. Park is separated from Woodbury and East Ridge otherwise I think I have school districts together.

North
Moorhead
STMA
Rogers
Anoka
Andover
Blaine
Coon Rapids
Champlin Park

East
Mounds View
Forest Lake
Centennial
White Bear Lake
Stillwater
Woodbury
Roseville
East Ridge

South
Park
Eastview
Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Rosemount
Eagan
Farmington
Prior Lake

West
Minnetonka
Eden Prairie
Edina
Hopkins
Shakopee
Wayzata
Maple Grove
Osseo
Click to expand...
Everything I’ve heard point to relief again

Maroon

Osseo
Hopkins
Eastview
Roseville
Coon rapids
Maybe park?

They want an even number so they probably hope for 4 or 6 or 8
I don’t think they’ll get 8
 



Some guy said:
October 2024 enrollments will be used
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according to the MSHSL website, in its timeline for determining new Classification and Section placement for the 25-26 & 26-27 school years, it states that during the week of February 24th, 2025, (quoting)

classification cut-offs for all activities will be released to member schools with updated MSHSL enrollment numbers based on information from the MN Department of education.

now, granted, "updated" enrollment could be the October student count, but I believe there is also a December 1st student count.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
according to the MSHSL website, in its timeline for determining new Classification and Section placement for the 25-26 & 26-27 school years, it states that during the week of February 24th, 2025, (quoting)

classification cut-offs for all activities will be released to member schools with updated MSHSL enrollment numbers based on information from the MN Department of education.

now, granted, "updated" enrollment could be the October student count, but I believe there is also a December 1st student count.
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Well the schools owe the numbers to MDE in October

I’m not sure what month MSHSL pulls them from MDE
That’s why I am saying October
 


Some guy said:
Everything I’ve heard point to relief again

Maroon

Osseo
Hopkins
Eastview
Roseville
Coon rapids
Maybe park?

They want an even number so they probably hope for 4 or 6 or 8
I don’t think they’ll get 8
Click to expand...

MaxyJR1 said:
Now will they stay at 5 districts or go to 4 is the question. Those are all NW schools. Maple Grove stay north or move?

Possible alignment. Park is separated from Woodbury and East Ridge otherwise I think I have school districts together.

North
Moorhead
STMA
Rogers
Anoka
Andover
Blaine
Coon Rapids
Champlin Park

East
Mounds View
Forest Lake
Centennial
White Bear Lake
Stillwater
Woodbury
Roseville
East Ridge

South
Park
Eastview
Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Rosemount
Eagan
Farmington
Prior Lake

West
Minnetonka
Eden Prairie
Edina
Hopkins
Shakopee
Wayzata
Maple Grove
Osseo
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Why Maple Grove to the West?
 

prespsguy said:
Why Maple Grove to the West?
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The rumor is they have asked for it since they play those schools in all the other sports via being a member of lake conference

Same principle could move prior lake and/or shakopee to the south
 

Some guy said:
The rumor is they have asked for it since they play those schools in all the other sports via being a member of lake conference

Same principle could move prior lake and/or shakopee to the south
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Makes sense I guess, but the MSHL would open a huge can of worms if they allow a school to chose their district. If they do so for one team, they could not justify not following the same requests for any other school; a precedent I'm sure they don't want to set.
 

prespsguy said:
Makes sense I guess, but the MSHL would open a huge can of worms if they allow a school to chose their district. If they do so for one team, they could not justify not following the same requests for any other school; a precedent I'm sure they don't want to set.
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Yeah but nobody is upset by the move. So they’ll probably do it.
Prior lake and shakopee would rather be in the south. So it’s going to make one of them happy.


The big debate will be about where Moorhead goes. West or north. Do they rotate teams east or west to accommodate rogers Andover and Moorhead.

You could see east ridge and park in the south.
You could see prior lake and shakopee in the south. You could see prior lake and park
I think are the three most logical rotations

An east team moving south moves a north team east.
A west team moving south moves or places a north team or a new team west.


Two teams from the south and one from the west moving down to 5a
3 teams moving up I personally would all say are in between north and west.
 



Some guy said:
Yeah but nobody is upset by the move. So they’ll probably do it.
Prior lake and shakopee would rather be in the south. So it’s going to make one of them happy.


The big debate will be about where Moorhead goes. West or north. Do they rotate teams east or west to accommodate rogers Andover and Moorhead.

You could see east ridge and park in the south.
You could see prior lake and shakopee in the south. You could see prior lake and park
I think are the three most logical rotations

An east team moving south moves a north team east.
A west team moving south moves or places a north team or a new team west.


Two teams from the south and one from the west moving down to 5a
3 teams moving up I personally would all say are in between north and west.
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Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sold on all the teams in the West being thrilled at the prospect of adding Maple Grove to an already brutal schedule.
 

If we use past criteria for setting classification will all schools play in 1 class since all kids are on free and reduced lunch now?

I'm joking obviously, but in I am still assuming the MSHSL will manipulate the numbers in some way to seem progressive to what other states are doing. I may be completely wrong and they will just count the actual enrolments and maybe try maneuver a few schools that should maybe be moved down due to lack of competitiveness in their classification range
 

prespsguy said:
Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sold on all the teams in the West being thrilled at the prospect of adding Maple Grove to an already brutal schedule.
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Maple Grove is joining the Lake Conference, so they have already signed off on playing Maple Grove. If they don't move districts in football, the move won't help their football program find like programs for lower-level football. Moving them in with the others would make for competitive season and with the way the bracket works, none would play until reaching the State tournament in the playoffs.

Sections are 8 teams, so they will set 4 sections. Districts are for scheduling. I assume they will go with 6 teams in a relief district, 3 other districts of 6 and a district of 8.

Or a relief of 4 teams and 4 districts of 7 which mirror close to the sections.

There will need to be some team shifting between districts from the past two years
 

prespsguy said:
Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sold on all the teams in the West being thrilled at the prospect of adding Maple Grove to an already brutal schedule.
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Perhaps.

I foresee the map to be:
West
Shakopee
Eden prairie
Hopkins
Edina
Minnetonka
Wayzata
Osseo
Maple grove

Losing Buffalo and prior lake
Gaining osseo and maple grove

It’s kind of a push to me in terms of difficulty level.

I see north
Moorhead
Rogers
Andover
St Michael
Anoka
Champlin park
Coon rapids
Blaine

North loses maple grove, centennial and Osseo
Gains Moorhead, Andover, and rogers

East
Centennial
Forest lake
Stillwater
White bear lake
Woodbury
East ridge
Moundsview
Roseville

Lose park, gain centennial

South
Rosemount
Eagan
Eastview
Farmington
Lakeville N
Lakeville S
Prior lake
Park

Lose mayo and Burnsville
Gain park and prior lake


I see maroon scheduling division as:
Hopkins
Osseo
Coon rapids
Eastview
Roseville

Other possible candidates:
Park, rogers (don’t think so)
Also possible one of those 5 above don’t want it. They’ll prefer and even number
 



Ranger692 said:
If we use past criteria for setting classification will all schools play in 1 class since all kids are on free and reduced lunch now?

I'm joking obviously, but in I am still assuming the MSHSL will manipulate the numbers in some way to seem progressive to what other states are doing. I may be completely wrong and they will just count the actual enrolments and maybe try maneuver a few schools that should maybe be moved down due to lack of competitiveness in their classification range
Click to expand...

as far as "manipulating" the numbers - look, I am not a fan of the MSHSL. but in this case, I don't have as big of a problem. the rationale is that lower-income students (i.e. families that qualify for free and reduced lunch) are less likely to participate in activities. that is debatable - I know some districts do help families to pay activity fees.

but in general, I think it's fair to say that a wealthier district has more advantages than a district with a higher % of low-income families. so, in theory, the free-and-reduced enrollment adjustment is meant to put districts and athletic programs on a more equal footing.

in my estimation, over the last 25+ years, the gap between the good programs and the bad programs has only gotten wider. that results in fewer competitive games. if the MSHSL did away with the F-&-R adjustment and classified on actual enrollment, it would result in some programs being moved into a higher class where they would likely be less competitive. I think that winds up hurting more programs than it helps.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
as far as "manipulating" the numbers - look, I am not a fan of the MSHSL. but in this case, I don't have as big of a problem. the rationale is that lower-income students (i.e. families that qualify for free and reduced lunch) are less likely to participate in activities. that is debatable - I know some districts do help families to pay activity fees.

but in general, I think it's fair to say that a wealthier district has more advantages than a district with a higher % of low-income families. so, in theory, the free-and-reduced enrollment adjustment is meant to put districts and athletic programs on a more equal footing.

in my estimation, over the last 25+ years, the gap between the good programs and the bad programs has only gotten wider. that results in fewer competitive games. if the MSHSL did away with the F-&-R adjustment and classified on actual enrollment, it would result in some programs being moved into a higher class where they would likely be less competitive. I think that winds up hurting more programs than it helps.
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In the district I coach in, income has 0 to do with who is and who isn't out for sports. I also know that in some local districts on Fall sports meetings, orientations, and other school functions they have required the filling out of the free and F-&-R paperwork to help lower the enrollments to get down a class...

Its possibly not as big of a separation in upper classes as it is in the lower classes where you have teams with average class sizes in the 30's playing teams with averages in the 80-90 mark.
 

Some guy said:
Perhaps.

I foresee the map to be:
West
Shakopee
Eden prairie
Hopkins
Edina
Minnetonka
Wayzata
Osseo
Maple grove

Losing Buffalo and prior lake
Gaining osseo and maple grove

It’s kind of a push to me in terms of difficulty level.

I see north
Moorhead
Rogers
Andover
St Michael
Anoka
Champlin park
Coon rapids
Blaine

North loses maple grove, centennial and Osseo
Gains Moorhead, Andover, and rogers

East
Centennial
Forest lake
Stillwater
White bear lake
Woodbury
East ridge
Moundsview
Roseville

Lose park, gain centennial

South
Rosemount
Eagan
Eastview
Farmington
Lakeville N
Lakeville S
Prior lake
Park

Lose mayo and Burnsville
Gain park and prior lake


I see maroon scheduling division as:
Hopkins
Osseo
Coon rapids
Eastview
Roseville

Other possible candidates:
Park, rogers (don’t think so)
Also possible one of those 5 above don’t want it. They’ll prefer and even number
Click to expand...
It almost appears as if 6A football is evolving into, dare I say it.....conferences (gasp!)
 

prespsguy said:
It almost appears as if 6A football is evolving into, dare I say it.....conferences (gasp!)
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Most teams in a section and district are in the same conference and have been for some time.

Conference is for scheduling all non football sports.
District is a scheduling pool for football.
Sections are the geographical placement for playoffs in your class for all sports.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Most teams in a section and district are in the same conference and have been for some time.

Conference is for scheduling all non football sports.
District is a scheduling pool for football.
Sections are the geographical placement for playoffs in your class for all sports.
Click to expand...
I am aware of all of this. I think you missed by point. If the teams in the same districts end up being the same as they are for conferences either by intent or accident, it would render the need for "districts" in 6A pointless. I realize we are not there yet, but it appears to be heading in that direction.

At the end of the day, instead of the MSHSL fixing the problems that clearly existed within conferences, an entirely new format was created.

Some of the same problems that emerged due to different sized schools competing in the same conference in football also exist in other sports, hence Maple Grove's desire to join the Lake. The MSHSL should have control over conference membership (which they mostly don't) and they should be realigned regularly to match schools of similar geography and enrollment.
 
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prespsguy said:
I am aware of all of this. I think you missed by point. If the teams in the same districts end up being the same as they are for conferences either by intent or accident, it would render the need for "districts" in 6A pointless. I realize we are not there yet, but it appears to be heading in that direction.

At the end of the day, instead of the MSHSL fixing the problems that clearly existed within conferences, an entirely new format was created.

Some of the same problems that emerged due to different sized schools competing in the same conference in football also exist in other sports, hence Maple Grove's desire to join the Lake. The MSHSL should have control over conference membership (which they mostly don't) and they should be realigned regularly to match schools of similar geography and enrollment.
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Conferences should maybe just go away and districts should be the scheduling mechanism for all sports. The MSHSL controls districts but the schools are holding onto conferences.

Big South is a conference in southern/western MN and has big schools and smaller schools. They schedule based on the size of schools for all sports and have some cross over. The district for football is run close to the same way with the same teams. Not sure they need to call it a conference for one sport and a district for another.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Conferences should maybe just go away and districts should be the scheduling mechanism for all sports. The MSHSL controls districts but the schools are holding onto conferences.

Big South is a conference in southern/western MN and has big schools and smaller schools. They schedule based on the size of schools for all sports and have some cross over. The district for football is run close to the same way with the same teams. Not sure they need to call it a conference for one sport and a district for another.
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Conferences should go away. Districts should go away.

People should play their sections and then self schedule the rest.

Why we have 3 different designations of groupings (conferences, districts, and sections) is just stupid redundancy.


The one that is built for fairness and like schools playing each other in playoffs is sections. That should be the deal all year.
I am not arguing sectioning is done perfectly, but having scheduling districts where teams don’t play section opponents is one of the dumbest ideas ever thought of in the history of high school sports in any state
 

Some guy said:
Conferences should go away. Districts should go away.

People should play their sections and then self schedule the rest.

Why we have 3 different designations of groupings (conferences, districts, and sections) is just stupid redundancy.


The one that is built for fairness and like schools playing each other in playoffs is sections. That should be the deal all year.
I am not arguing sectioning is done perfectly, but having scheduling districts where teams don’t play section opponents is one of the dumbest ideas ever thought of in the history of high school sports in any state
Click to expand...
Perfect solution!
 

Some guy said:
Conferences should go away. Districts should go away.

People should play their sections and then self schedule the rest.

Why we have 3 different designations of groupings (conferences, districts, and sections) is just stupid redundancy.


The one that is built for fairness and like schools playing each other in playoffs is sections. That should be the deal all year.
I am not arguing sectioning is done perfectly, but having scheduling districts where teams don’t play section opponents is one of the dumbest ideas ever thought of in the history of high school sports in any state
Click to expand...
I don't disagree on section play, but that gets us back to travel and finding opponents. A and AA are easier than AAA and AAAA due to travel. A and AA have plenty of teams to play within a section as all sections have 14 to 22 teams.

For AAA and AAAA basketball as an example, with home and home, you would have 12-14 games set in your section and still have to find 8-13 teams to play to fill a schedule.

AAA girls basketball example: North Branch and Chisago would have to travel to Grand Rapids, Hibbing, Virginia, Duluth, Hermantown and Cloquet.

Now if you district Class AAA and AAAA together into groups of 16, it gives more options, but still quite a bit of travel.
 

Ranger692 said:
If we use past criteria for setting classification will all schools play in 1 class since all kids are on free and reduced lunch now?

I'm joking obviously, but in I am still assuming the MSHSL will manipulate the numbers in some way to seem progressive to what other states are doing. I may be completely wrong and they will just count the actual enrolments and maybe try maneuver a few schools that should maybe be moved down due to lack of competitiveness in their classification range
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I posted the actual enrollments a couple weeks ago. It's pretty striking the difference between actual and MSHSL adjusted for some of these schools. Coon Rapids and Park Center were especially so.
 

Curious to know how many coaches have led multiple programs to a state championship? That list can't be very long. Only one I know off the top of my head is Dave Nelson (Blaine and Minnetonka).
 

Maverick_52 said:
Curious to know how many coaches have led multiple programs to a state championship? That list can't be very long. Only one I know off the top of my head is Dave Nelson (Blaine and Minnetonka).
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Still looking but found

DeWayne Johnson ~ Anoka High School​


He won two titles in WI in the 70's before taking over Anoka and winning two titles in the 90's.
 

So Nelson may be the only coach to do it with two different schools in MN. His successor at Minnetonka could join him on that list Friday night.
 

Maverick_52 said:
So Nelson may be the only coach to do it with two different schools in MN. His successor at Minnetonka could join him on that list Friday night.
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Larry Thompson won at Lakeville HS and got Lakeville South to the prep bowl 3 years after the schools split into North and South. Leidner was his QB and they lost that game to Eden Prairie 21-14.

Typically if they win and are a teacher at the school, they stay forever.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I don't disagree on section play, but that gets us back to travel and finding opponents. A and AA are easier than AAA and AAAA due to travel. A and AA have plenty of teams to play within a section as all sections have 14 to 22 teams.

For AAA and AAAA basketball as an example, with home and home, you would have 12-14 games set in your section and still have to find 8-13 teams to play to fill a schedule.

AAA girls basketball example: North Branch and Chisago would have to travel to Grand Rapids, Hibbing, Virginia, Duluth, Hermantown and Cloquet.

Now if you district Class AAA and AAAA together into groups of 16, it gives more options, but still quite a bit of travel.
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Then consolidate classes and care more about sports and less about trophies

Is the logical solution.
 

Some guy said:
Conferences should go away. Districts should go away.

People should play their sections and then self schedule the rest.

Why we have 3 different designations of groupings (conferences, districts, and sections) is just stupid redundancy.


The one that is built for fairness and like schools playing each other in playoffs is sections. That should be the deal all year.
I am not arguing sectioning is done perfectly, but having scheduling districts where teams don’t play section opponents is one of the dumbest ideas ever thought of in the history of high school sports in any state
Click to expand...
Imagine a world where the MSHSL finds common sense and uses the sections for something other than playoffs... So logical they will look elsewhere for answers. Very hard for section seeding to be viewed as it should when teams play 0 or 1 section game. Ideocracy at its finest.

Not to mention the section team pairings... Section 4A and 6A most teams all within a 90 mile radius of each other and somehow the MSHSL made section 4A with 6 teams and section 6A with 8 teams pretty easy to have put 7 in each section... But i have a feeling there was some back scratching going on there hearing who the committee members were.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Larry Thompson won at Lakeville HS and got Lakeville South to the prep bowl 3 years after the schools split into North and South. Leidner was his QB and they lost that game to Eden Prairie 21-14.

Typically if they win and are a teacher at the school, they stay forever.
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I imagine Esch will be at Minnetonka for the rest of his coaching career. Not sure how long that will be. He was 29 when he took over at Mankato West, so must be 47 or 48 now. I don't think he will be one of those guys that coaches into his 60's.
 

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