2024 MN High School Football thread

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short ornery norwegian said:
and - Section Final games where both teams are State-ranked. 17 such meetings out of 56 games.

9-pl: (Thurs) #7 Fosston vs #3 Fertile-Beltrami (@ the Fargodome)
-- (Fri) #9 Cherry vs #2 Mountain Iron-Buhl (@ Mesabi East HS)

1A: (Thurs) #10 Red Lake County vs #3 Mahnomen-Waubun (@ Fargodome)
--- (Fri) #8 Belgrade-Brooten-Elrosa vs #5 Upsala-Swanville (@ Fargodome)
--- #9 Fillmore Central vs #4 Goodhue (@ Kasson-Mantorville HS)
--- #6 BOLD vs #1 Minneota (@ SMSU-Marshall)

2A: (Fri) #8 Caledonia vs #2 Chatfield (@ Paul Giel Field -Winona)

3A: (Thurs) #10 Two Harbors vs #2 Pequot Lakes (@ UMD)
--- (Fri) #8 Fairmont vs #4 Waseca (@ New Ulm HS) (aka the Herman the German Bowl)

4A: (Fri) #3 Princeton vs #1 Becker (@ St Michael-Albertville HS)
--- #6 Providence Academy vs #9 Orono (@ Pesonen Stadium - Orono)

5A: (Fri) #9 Robbinsdale Cooper vs #4 Robbinsdale Armstrong (@ Armstrong HS)
--- #7 Alexandria vs #1 Moorhead (@ Moorhead HS)
--- #5 Andover vs #3 Elk River (@ Elk River HS)

6A: (Fri) #10 Blaine vs #7 Forest Lake (@ Forest Lake HS)
--- #8 Eagan vs #3 Edina (@ Eagan) - edited
--- #6 Eden Prairie vs #1 Maple Grove (@ Maple Grove HS)

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FWIW - in 4A, Providence Academy is the higher-ranked team in the State Ratings, but Orono was the #1 seed in the Section and Providence Acad was #2, so Orono gets to host game.
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Why are we playing games in North Dakota? MSU-Moorehead or Moorehead High not an option for some reason?
 

swede2 said:
Why are we playing games in North Dakota? MSU-Moorehead or Moorehead High not an option for some reason?
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1. It's Moorhead, not Moorehead.
2. I would assume it's because they're guaranteed not to be affected by the weather by playing in the dome. Surprised they don't use Alerus Center in Grand Forks too. Although I see Moorhead is hosting a playoff game on their own field.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I will keep this reasonably short.

the MSHSL lives in its own little bubble, where everything they do is fine and no outside opinions or feedback is allowed. they are tremendously resistant to change of any kind.

and - the key point - the MSHSL is on record as saying that their goal for a state tournament is NOT to have the 8 best teams in the state. their goal is to have a tournament with regional representation. the regional representation is more important to them than having the best teams in the state playing for a championship.

I am not making that up. my brother - who has coached for nearly 50 years - has had lots of go-rounds with the MSHSL, and he has heard the above philosophy directly from MSHSL officials.

again - this is a fact. the MSHSL philosophy is not to have the best teams in the state. their most important goal is regional representation.

it may sound crazy to people who live outside the bubble, but inside the bubble, it makes perfect sense. just like things make perfect sense if you are a paranoid schizophrenic and you are off your meds.
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We have lived the same narrative that you mention above. We proposed a system with less teams making the sectional playoffs and seeding the state after one round to the MFCA and we heard the exact same logic. They want regional representation. Frustrating. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. However, I'd rather lose to the best later in the playoffs knowing we may be the second best team in the state than to lose in the sectional finals.
 

gopher-revolution said:
We have lived the same narrative that you mention above. We proposed a system with less teams making the sectional playoffs and seeding the state after one round to the MFCA and we heard the exact same logic. They want regional representation. Frustrating. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. However, I'd rather lose to the best later in the playoffs knowing we may be the second best team in the state than to lose in the sectional finals.
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Division winners in Pro sports get seeded higher than teams with better records so even the pros don’t seed it out perfectly.
 

swede2 said:
Why are we playing games in North Dakota? MSU-Moorehead or Moorehead High not an option for some reason?
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In southern MN the UNI-Dome in Cedar Falls IA has been used multiple times in similar situations for high school games. Not that odd.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
Even the 6A brackets are imbalanced so it's not true seeding. It will be interesting to see how they do it next year with Maple Grove wanting different opponents during the season and reclassification.

I like the way the lower classes do it, but I think they should seed it 1-8 at State. It allows for some regional pride. If you don't win your section/region why should you go to state? Maybe a compromise is to go to 16 and allow the top two from each section to be reseeded for final 16. This would keep the first rounds and allow sections to have the playoff they want to get the 2 representatives to the final 16.

I like the way 6A does it because it takes some of the bias out of seeding. The North/East Metro is not looked upon as being as good as the South, yet the last 2 Champions have come from the North. I wouldn't want to see seeding beyond 16 teams at the most.

Minnesota's current system makes the games be contested on the field with everyone an opportunity to play in the playoffs. You have to have H2H guaranteed games to change the system IMO.
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swede2 said:
Why are we playing games in North Dakota? MSU-Moorehead or Moorehead High not an option for some reason?
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NDSU has been great to MN high schools. Several coaching clinics hosted there yearly. I am sure that they love having the building used... Not to mention its a great experience for the kids. Been apart of several team goal setting meetings and every year the most said goal for players is to play at the Fargo Dome.
 

Ranger692 said:
NDSU has been great to MN high schools. Several coaching clinics hosted there yearly. I am sure that they love having the building used... Not to mention its a great experience for the kids. Been apart of several team goal setting meetings and every year the most said goal for players is to play at the Fargo Dome.
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It's also a great regional event, somewhat of a mini-Prep Bowl as games are stacked on top of each other with numerous sections/classes playing all day, with fan bases, bands, and students coming and going. You can buy a ticket and watch 4-5 games if that's your thing.
 




Looking at 16 team brackets for state here are some sections that might benefit.

AAA- Fairmont and Waseca have met for 4 straight section championships. Both are always top 10 material.

AAAA- Marshall and Hutchinson play the championship nearly every year.

AAAAA- Elk River and Andover are 1-2 in their section nearly every year.

AAAAA- Section 2 has Chanhassen, Mankato West and Chaska who are all quality year in and year out.

Section1 for 9-Player to 3A typically has two teams that are top 10.
Caledonia/Chatfield an example

Just some samples of programs that have to end their season in the same game against the same team nearly every year.
 

disco said:
1. It's Moorhead, not Moorehead.
2. I would assume it's because they're guaranteed not to be affected by the weather by playing in the dome. Surprised they don't use Alerus Center in Grand Forks too. Although I see Moorhead is hosting a playoff game on their own field.
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1. Who cares?
2. I known it's almost to the North Pole, but as you pointed out, no games further north are being played in GF, and no games are scheduled at US Bank, or Vermillion or Cedar Falls (granted, neither Vermillion or Cedar Falls are right on the border but both hosted Section final games after the Halloween Blizzard).
 

Ranger692 said:
NDSU has been great to MN high schools. Several coaching clinics hosted there yearly. I am sure that they love having the building used... Not to mention its a great experience for the kids. Been apart of several team goal setting meetings and every year the most said goal for players is to play at the Fargo Dome.
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Fargodome isn't owned or operated by NDSU. Is Fargodome giving away the facility for little or no rent?
 

swede2 said:
Fargodome isn't owned or operated by NDSU. Is Fargodome giving away the facility for little or no rent?
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These are Section decisions and I'm sure they get a decent deal for bringing all those people to Fargo. If not in Fargo then they are played 6 miles east in Dilworth, or at Concordia, Moorhead HS, or Moorhead State. I believe the Halloween Blizzard and frozen fields is what led to this annual tradition. Detroit Lakes and Thief River Falls played there for section championship in 1995.
 



Interesting note:

The MN Star-Tribune is dropping its "All-Metro" teams and replacing them with "All-Minnesota" teams.

The Star Tribune’s All-Metro honors for high school sports excellence date back to the mid-1980s. We have named All-Metro Players of the Year in several sports and named All-Metro first and second teams for 40 years.

The All-Metro name served us well, and now it’s time for a new era.
Goodbye, All-Metro.
Hello, All-Minnesota.

Readers will see, starting today with our girls and boys All-Minnesota soccer teams, that Star Tribune journalists will select 25 athletes in each team sport from across the state to form these teams. We’ll continue to name a Player of the Year, and this young man or woman could live in Ely, Edina, Edgerton, Eagan or anywhere in between.

in the article, the Strib notes that it is putting more people and resources into HS sports coverage. Chip Scoggins will devote more time to HS-related stories, and Marcus Fuller (who covers Gopher Hoops) will be covering the HS recruiting scene.

as an out-state resident, this makes me happy. there was a long stretch where the Strib sports coverage basically ignored anything that happened outside of the Metro area. I hope this is more than just lip service and they really make an effort to cover stories from the entire state.

and to be sure, there is a business side to this. better statewide HS sports coverage might get more people buying digital subscriptions to the Strib.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
These are Section decisions and I'm sure they get a decent deal for bringing all those people to Fargo. If not in Fargo then they are played 6 miles east in Dilworth, or at Concordia, Moorhead HS, or Moorhead State. I believe the Halloween Blizzard and frozen fields is what led to this annual tradition. Detroit Lakes and Thief River Falls played there for section championship in 1995.
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There will be nine different section final games played Thursday/Friday of this week at the Fargodome. If the Fargodome Authority wasn't giving the sections or MSHSL a deal, something tells me this tradition wouldn't be 30+ years old.
 

swede2 said:
Fargodome isn't owned or operated by NDSU. Is Fargodome giving away the facility for little or no rent?
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Sorry about the technicality... Why do you care so much? Some teams get to play inside, some don't... US Bank isn't opening its doors for such a small event as a section championship... 20 years ago the field conditions weren't the same as they are now. I assume that Moorhead and other schools weren't excited to have 5 extra games played on their grass. I know I wouldn't be, especially if it was wet. That would ruin a surface.

Today with most big schools on turf it seems like it would be ok, but I like the idea of the kids getting to play in a legit stadium and not just another high school complex
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Looking at 16 team brackets for state here are some sections that might benefit.

AAA- Fairmont and Waseca have met for 4 straight section championships. Both are always top 10 material.

AAAA- Marshall and Hutchinson play the championship nearly every year.

AAAAA- Elk River and Andover are 1-2 in their section nearly every year.

AAAAA- Section 2 has Chanhassen, Mankato West and Chaska who are all quality year in and year out.

Section1 for 9-Player to 3A typically has two teams that are top 10.
Caledonia/Chatfield an example

Just some samples of programs that have to end their season in the same game against the same team nearly every year.
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And it isn’t unprecedented
I think wrestling allows for two teams from a section to make state
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Interesting note:

The MN Star-Tribune is dropping its "All-Metro" teams and replacing them with "All-Minnesota" teams.

The Star Tribune’s All-Metro honors for high school sports excellence date back to the mid-1980s. We have named All-Metro Players of the Year in several sports and named All-Metro first and second teams for 40 years.

The All-Metro name served us well, and now it’s time for a new era.
Goodbye, All-Metro.
Hello, All-Minnesota.

Readers will see, starting today with our girls and boys All-Minnesota soccer teams, that Star Tribune journalists will select 25 athletes in each team sport from across the state to form these teams. We’ll continue to name a Player of the Year, and this young man or woman could live in Ely, Edina, Edgerton, Eagan or anywhere in between.

in the article, the Strib notes that it is putting more people and resources into HS sports coverage. Chip Scoggins will devote more time to HS-related stories, and Marcus Fuller (who covers Gopher Hoops) will be covering the HS recruiting scene.

as an out-state resident, this makes me happy. there was a long stretch where the Strib sports coverage basically ignored anything that happened outside of the Metro area. I hope this is more than just lip service and they really make an effort to cover stories from the entire state.

and to be sure, there is a business side to this. better statewide HS sports coverage might get more people buying digital subscriptions to the Strib.
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Agree with your analysis of why
 

Some guy said:
And it isn’t unprecedented
I think wrestling allows for two teams from a section to make state
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No they don't. It's not uncommon for the best teams in the state for wrestling to be in the same section and only 1 makes it to state.
 

swede2 said:
1. Who cares?
2. I known it's almost to the North Pole, but as you pointed out, no games further north are being played in GF, and no games are scheduled at US Bank, or Vermillion or Cedar Falls (granted, neither Vermillion or Cedar Falls are right on the border but both hosted Section final games after the Halloween Blizzard).
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I do! Spelling matters. I'm always wondering which way to spell it, so having it correct on the site in which I spend a lot of time makes things easier for me. It's like in college, I remember a car dealership in my new home called Ken's Kars. Confused the hell out of me. I was like, "did my rural education fail me and I've thought kars was always spelled cars when it's really kars?" Sometimes order is necessary.
 

Some guy said:
And it isn’t unprecedented
I think wrestling allows for two teams from a section to make state
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Individuals, not teams. Each Wrestling Section sends 1 team to state and the top 2 individuals in each weight class. But they still don't have full double-elim individual brackets at State - which is another rant for another day.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
These are Section decisions and I'm sure they get a decent deal for bringing all those people to Fargo. If not in Fargo then they are played 6 miles east in Dilworth, or at Concordia, Moorhead HS, or Moorhead State. I believe the Halloween Blizzard and frozen fields is what led to this annual tradition. Detroit Lakes and Thief River Falls played there for section championship in 1995.
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The Halloween blizzard was in 1991. The Fargodome opened in late 1992.
In addition, the Halloween blizzard didn't affect Fargo-Moorhead. I was a freshman in college up there at the time, and we only heard about it.

And by Thanksgiving, it had all melted. And what people forget, is that the day after Thanksgiving, the day of the Prep Bowl, the Twin Cities got hit with another huge blizzard that people would probably still be talking about today, had the Halloween storm not happened.

I think the near-permanent move to the Fargodome may have happened in 1996. That was the winter that preceded the huge flood that decimated Grand Forks. Not sure how early in the fall/winter the snow started.
 

Ranger692 said:
Today with most big schools on turf it seems like it would be ok, but I like the idea of the kids getting to play in a legit stadium and not just another high school complex
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And MSUM didn't have turf then either.
 


disco said:
The Halloween blizzard was in 1991. The Fargodome opened in late 1992.
In addition, the Halloween blizzard didn't affect Fargo-Moorhead. I was a freshman in college up there at the time, and we only heard about it.

And by Thanksgiving, it had all melted. And what people forget, is that the day after Thanksgiving, the day of the Prep Bowl, the Twin Cities got hit with another huge blizzard that people would probably still be talking about today, had the Halloween storm not happened.

I think the near-permanent move to the Fargodome may have happened in 1996. That was the winter that preceded the huge flood that decimated Grand Forks. Not sure how early in the fall/winter the snow started.
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That winter we were hit in the central part of the state with 24-27" in early march. I know because my parents just closed on a small lake cabin last week of February and we had 2 Morton buildings collapse under the wet spring snow. Bad timing for a family that just took on an extra payment. My parents always said if the dates of the snow and the cabin closing were opposite we wouldn't have the cabin.

Then sometime in march the weather warmed up and we got a couple inches of warm rain and all that snow melted almost over night. Washed out every gravel road around our place and each culvert... So I think the red river flooding was due to late massive snow and extremely fast melt off that spring.
 

disco said:
The Halloween blizzard was in 1991. The Fargodome opened in late 1992.
In addition, the Halloween blizzard didn't affect Fargo-Moorhead. I was a freshman in college up there at the time, and we only heard about it.
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Pretty much all of the Section Finals then State Quarters & Semis shifted to the HHH Dome in 1991. They were having games all throughout the day, 5-6 days a week through November.

I remember going to see Faribault vs Lakeville in the middle of the afternoon, mid-week for the AA-Sec 1 Championship.
 

JMW said:
No they don't. It's not uncommon for the best teams in the state for wrestling to be in the same section and only 1 makes it to state.
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I thought they recently changed that

Perhaps I am thinking of a proposal that didn’t pass
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Individuals, not teams. Each Wrestling Section sends 1 team to state and the top 2 individuals in each weight class. But they still don't have full double-elim individual brackets at State - which is another rant for another day.
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I am mistaken then
 

Some guy said:
And it isn’t unprecedented
I think wrestling allows for two teams from a section to make state
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Wresting is one team but top two individuals at each weight. Cross country takes two teams from each section and track takes 12 teams with wild card qualifiers and multiple individuals from each event. Tennis takes top two individuals or doubles pairs to fill 16 spots.
 

disco said:
The Halloween blizzard was in 1991. The Fargodome opened in late 1992.
In addition, the Halloween blizzard didn't affect Fargo-Moorhead. I was a freshman in college up there at the time, and we only heard about it.

And by Thanksgiving, it had all melted. And what people forget, is that the day after Thanksgiving, the day of the Prep Bowl, the Twin Cities got hit with another huge blizzard that people would probably still be talking about today, had the Halloween storm not happened.

I think the near-permanent move to the Fargodome may have happened in 1996. That was the winter that preceded the huge flood that decimated Grand Forks. Not sure how early in the fall/winter the snow started.
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Yes they weren't affected by the storm but they started playing section games at the arena as soon as it opened.
 

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