2023 MN High School Football season

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disco said:
Yes, because clearly school building decisions should be based entirely on how many boys go out for football. Have you been sniffing glue?
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You don’t think lakeville south should split into two high schools to avoid playing sophomore B football?
 

Some guy said:
You don’t think lakeville south should split into two high schools to avoid playing sophomore B football?
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Well obviously they should. Anyone can see that.
 

Obviously not football alone dictates it. A comprehensive look at participation numbers for all extra-curricular activities would be warranted.

High school is chiefly about participation. Should not be prioritizing competitiveness at the sake of participation opportunity. That’s an awful choice.

Lakeville already split once and still is plenty competitive. Third high school could easily be warranted.


EP, Wayzata, and Minnetonka are abominations, in this regard. I’d force them, if I could.
 

MplsGopher said:
Obviously not football alone dictates it. A comprehensive look at participation numbers for all extra-curricular activities would be warranted.

High school is chiefly about participation. Should not be prioritizing competitiveness at the sake of participation opportunity. That’s an awful choice.

Lakeville already split once and still is plenty competitive. Third high school could easily be warranted.


EP, Wayzata, and Minnetonka are abominations, in this regard. I’d force them, if I could.
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You really don't understand how schools and districts work. Like, not even in the slightest. It's quite remarkable. You've been posting this nonsense for what, two years?

Like how voters in the district get to decide things like this, that costs of running a second or third high school come into play, including doubling up labs, teachers, gyms, music facilities, industrial ed departments etc.

While this is a sports board, running a school district is not at all about participation in extra curriculars, much less a single sport. It's about educating students within the will of the voting taxpayers who pay for the schools in their district.
 

MplsGopher said:
Obviously not football alone dictates it. A comprehensive look at participation numbers for all extra-curricular activities would be warranted.

High school is chiefly about participation. Should not be prioritizing competitiveness at the sake of participation opportunity. That’s an awful choice.

Lakeville already split once and still is plenty competitive. Third high school could easily be warranted.


EP, Wayzata, and Minnetonka are abominations, in this regard. I’d force them, if I could.
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EP student population has been declining for years. The decision not to have two high schools was the correct decision many years ago and, quite frankly, is not in dispute.
 


Gopher 461 said:
EP student population has been declining for years. The decision not to have two high schools was the correct decision many years ago and, quite frankly, is not in dispute.
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Exactly, and that's why they made the decision.
Minnetonka is as big as it is because they actively recruit open enrollment (not necessarily sports related, but student body as a whole.) 40% is from outside.

Wayzata should have built a second school. They're still building developments in the district in Western Plymouth and Medina. But I suspect they think that while that will grow, the southern part of the district (where I live) will mature and decline.
 


disco said:
Exactly, and that's why they made the decision.
Minnetonka is as big as it is because they actively recruit open enrollment (not necessarily sports related, but student body as a whole.) 40% is from outside.

Wayzata should have built a second school. They're still building developments in the district in Western Plymouth and Medina. But I suspect they think that while that will grow, the southern part of the district (where I live) will mature and decline.
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Minnetonka was on the cusp of closing 2 of 6 elementary schools not too long ago, before their open enrollment push. Very mature and aging district that made the decision to grow/survive/thrive (depending on a person's POV). I'm sure there are exceptions by school but I believe they are approaching "full" status between resident and open-enrolled students. While a second high school would be good for student participation, I doubt it would be the right risk as education legislation/funding, demographics, etc. can swing in a hurry.
 

fatgopher said:
Minnetonka was on the cusp of closing 2 of 6 elementary schools not too long ago, before their open enrollment push. Very mature and aging district that made the decision to grow/survive/thrive (depending on a person's POV). I'm sure there are exceptions by school but I believe they are approaching "full" status between resident and open-enrolled students. While a second high school would be good for student participation, I doubt it would be the right risk as education legislation/funding, demographics, etc. can swing in a hurry.
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Correct. Minnetonka's goal is to keep all their current schools full and operating.
 



disco said:
Wayzata should have built a second school. They're still building developments in the district in Western Plymouth and Medina. But I suspect they think that while that will grow, the southern part of the district (where I live) will mature and decline.
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I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but would add some additional context. At the time that the decision was being made to build the "new" high school (30 years ago) the plan was for the development of northwest Plymouth/Medina to proceed much more slowly than it ultimately was completed. The thought was that the development and younger families in those areas would mostly be offset by the aging of the population in other parts of the district. Population growth was always anticipated, but not at the rate that ultimately occurred when the pace of development accelerated. By the time it became apparent just how big a single high school would become, they were already committed to the single high school model.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
In that Class A matchup Friday, #1 rated Minneota stopped #2 BOLD 42-28.

Minneota faces Canby next week in a matchup of two 3-0 teams. looking at the schedule, if Minneota beats Canby, they should be favored in every game the rest of the way.

I think Springfield might move up to #2 in the ratings as they are also 3-0.
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Springfield, A runner up last year, plays Wabasso, who has a 9 man enrollment but plays up at Class A and is winless. Springfield should move to 4 -0 setting up a big rivalry matchup next week with Sleepy Eye United, the new Coop between SE public and SE St Mary's, who is undefeated and getting votes in Class A as well.
 

swede2 said:
Springfield, A runner up last year, plays Wabasso, who has a 9 man enrollment but plays up at Class A and is winless. Springfield should move to 4 -0 setting up a big rivalry matchup next week with Sleepy Eye United, the new Coop between SE public and SE St Mary's, who is undefeated and getting votes in Class A as well.
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Springfield is a good program. they graduate key players every year, and they just plug new kids into that system.

BTW - time for another edition of "another one bits the dust."

LeSueur-Henderson has forfeited this week's scheduled game with Jackson County Central - reportedly due to "a lack of available players." this one is a little odd. LSH was very competitive in its 1st two games, losing by 9 pts to Redwood Valley and by 1 pt in OT to Pipestone. last week LSH got thumped 54-16 by MVL. and now a forfeit this week.

don't know if this is a one-game thing or if it's for the full season.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Springfield is a good program. they graduate key players every year, and they just plug new kids into that system.

BTW - time for another edition of "another one bits the dust."

LeSueur-Henderson has forfeited this week's scheduled game with Jackson County Central - reportedly due to "a lack of available players." this one is a little odd. LSH was very competitive in its 1st two games, losing by 9 pts to Redwood Valley and by 1 pt in OT to Pipestone. last week LSH got thumped 54-16 by MVL. and now a forfeit this week.

don't know if this is a one-game thing or if it's for the full season.
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Super odd.
Maybe an outbreak of something
 




2nd Degree Gopher said:
I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but would add some additional context. At the time that the decision was being made to build the "new" high school (30 years ago) the plan was for the development of northwest Plymouth/Medina to proceed much more slowly than it ultimately was completed. The thought was that the development and younger families in those areas would mostly be offset by the aging of the population in other parts of the district. Population growth was always anticipated, but not at the rate that ultimately occurred when the pace of development accelerated. By the time it became apparent just how big a single high school would become, they were already committed to the single high school model.
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Thank you for this. That make a lot of sense.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Springfield is a good program. they graduate key players every year, and they just plug new kids into that system.

BTW - time for another edition of "another one bits the dust."

LeSueur-Henderson has forfeited this week's scheduled game with Jackson County Central - reportedly due to "a lack of available players." this one is a little odd. LSH was very competitive in its 1st two games, losing by 9 pts to Redwood Valley and by 1 pt in OT to Pipestone. last week LSH got thumped 54-16 by MVL. and now a forfeit this week.

don't know if this is a one-game thing or if it's for the full season.
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I was at the MVL game last week. LSH did not look good. MVL is 3-0 and getting votes in 2A. Its starting defense has yet to give up any points. It has outstanding skill players, particularly at receiver. Jr. QB Kaden Peterson threw for a school record 7 TD passes against LSH but, not to take anything away from him, really needed only to toss the ball up and let his talented receivers go get it. It's hard to say whether MVL has been tested at this point in wins over Sibley East, Lake Crystal WM, and LSH. This week MVL faces 3A Luverne.
 

As the south end of Lakeville continues to fill in things will likely change, but right now North and South generally are at around 450 kids in a graduating class and 1800 total - they're not really an outlier in terms of size.

I've come to the view that the 6A scheme, while well-intentioned and a good solution for the playoffs, is very negatively affecting things for regular season scheduling. The rigidity in classes goes too far in preventing schools that should be playing each other if you want to maximize competitive games from doing so. There is no good reason Roseville, Park, Burnsville, and Hopkins should be precluded from playing Two Rivers or the Robbinsdale and Bloomington schools.
 

xyz1 said:
As the south end of Lakeville continues to fill in things will likely change, but right now North and South generally are at around 450 kids in a graduating class and 1800 total - they're not really an outlier in terms of size.

I've come to the view that the 6A scheme, while well-intentioned and a good solution for the playoffs, is very negatively affecting things for regular season scheduling. The rigidity in classes goes too far in preventing schools that should be playing each other if you want to maximize competitive games from doing so. There is no good reason Roseville, Park, Burnsville, and Hopkins should be precluded from playing Two Rivers or the Robbinsdale and Bloomington schools.
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It's tough because you have the two largest schools with over 700 more kids than the third largest (Prior Lake, in case you were wondering). Short of mandating that Minnetonka and Wayzata field two varsity teams in each sport, there's always going to be some kind of disparity.
 

xyz1 said:
As the south end of Lakeville continues to fill in things will likely change, but right now North and South generally are at around 450 kids in a graduating class and 1800 total - they're not really an outlier in terms of size.

I've come to the view that the 6A scheme, while well-intentioned and a good solution for the playoffs, is very negatively affecting things for regular season scheduling. The rigidity in classes goes too far in preventing schools that should be playing each other if you want to maximize competitive games from doing so. There is no good reason Roseville, Park, Burnsville, and Hopkins should be precluded from playing Two Rivers or the Robbinsdale and Bloomington schools.
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Correct.

The MSHSL needs to realize in a game without ties, every time you pick a winner you are also picking a loser.
Telling Jefferson and apple valley they don’t have to play any 6a schools is also telling Burnsville and Hopkins they don’t play any 5a schools.

I’ve said other times in this thread. 9 guaranteed for 32 teams.
That is 144 games.
That is 144 losses.
The 32 6a teams will have 144 losses this year.
With the teams that opted for relief it means the teams who really have a tough time this year are the 5th and 6th best teams from the East, West, and South.
 

Isn't the duly expanded Shakopee HS up to over 700 kids in a graduating class?

That is a district whose voters decided to double the size of their already-large high school instead of building a second building.
 

GopherRock said:
Isn't the duly expanded Shakopee HS up to over 700 kids in a graduating class?

That is a district whose voters decided to double the size of their already-large high school instead of building a second building.
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Their official MSHSL enrollment number is 2354 which averages to 588 per class. But that includes a free and reduced lunch factor to reduce their enrollment number from the actual number of students
 

PMWinSTP said:
Have a lifelong buddy who refereed hockey for 20+ years. Could work as much or little as he wanted. Really liked doing it but like you said, the hassles increased over the last few years and he decided to hang up the whistle.
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Some guy said:
Correct.

The MSHSL needs to realize in a game without ties, every time you pick a winner you are also picking a loser.
Telling Jefferson and apple valley they don’t have to play any 6a schools is also telling Burnsville and Hopkins they don’t play any 5a schools.

I’ve said other times in this thread. 9 guaranteed for 32 teams.
That is 144 games.
That is 144 losses.
The 32 6a teams will have 144 losses this year.
With the teams that opted for relief it means the teams who really have a tough time this year are the 5th and 6th best teams from the East, West, and South.
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They did so with 28 versus 32. Problem is, with less teams you have less flexibility. You’ll then have the next layer of teams that will get beat up. Osseo, White Bear, Buffalo etc. the District would have 12-18 teams with your rationale. Burnsville v Park is a good match up. Burnsville v Chan would not be good. Either way you’re going to have 2 to 3 really tough games a season.

I agree that 6A Bracket is messy though for post season.
 

“Shakopee: having a better chance to beat bigger suburbs and thus pretend like that means folks north of the river have to respect us, is more important than less kids getting a chance to play.”

Pathetic
 


Some guy said:
Their official MSHSL enrollment number is 2354 which averages to 588 per class. But that includes a free and reduced lunch factor to reduce their enrollment number from the actual number of students
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They are currently the ninth largest school in the state, between Stillwater and Rosemount.
 

MplsGopher said:
“Shakopee: having a better chance to beat bigger suburbs and thus pretend like that means folks north of the river have to respect us, is more important than less kids getting a chance to play.”

Pathetic
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Imagine thinking that sports performance is a major factor in the way voters choose on tax levy issues?
 

Some guy said:
Super odd.
Maybe an outbreak of something
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Third week of school means Petri dish is in full bloom. (My kids say everyone is sick at their school with colds, covid etc.) Newpaper article I found, says it's due to lack of healthy players and they expect to play next week.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Third week of school means Petri dish is in full bloom. (My kids say everyone is sick at their school with colds, covid etc.) Newpaper article I found, says it's due to lack of healthy players and they expect to play next week.
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Sometimes it’s like ringworm or staph or something
 



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