2023 MN High School Football season

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MplsGopher said:
Also looking at the 4A polls .. wow, really Mpls Henry?? When is the last time in modern times, if ever in that time frame, that they have mattered in football??

Good for them!
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Many who vote for these ranking simply rank on reputation and/or record. Not much different than the college rankings.
 

maroonfive said:
From the 1970's when Mankato split into 2 high schools until the mid 1990's West was a bottom feeder. I am not sure what happened but that program sure got better. East has had a few great teams also. The Rochester schools are a different story. They have fallen off the mat except for Mayo.
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Mark Esch happened. West had 2 state titles before he got there ('99, '02) but those were the schools only state tournament appearances. Esch made it to 9 state tournaments in his 11 years at Mankato West with 2 state championships. There wasn't much of a weight training program when he got there and he did a great job evolving that by getting a new weight room and getting players in there all off season. He also was involved and helped the participation numbers in the Mankato youth football program increase quite a bit. JJ Helget walked into a gold mine when Esch left, but he has done a good job keeping the strong tradition going. West has had some great QB's over the last 20 years which certainly helps.
 

Maverick_52 said:
Mark Esch happened. West had 2 state titles before he got there ('99, '02) but those were the schools only state tournament appearances. Esch made it to 9 state tournaments in his 11 years at Mankato West with 2 state championships. There wasn't much of a weight training program when he got there and he did a great job evolving that by getting a new weight room and getting players in there all off season. He also was involved and helped the participation numbers in the Mankato youth football program increase quite a bit. JJ Helget walked into a gold mine when Esch left, but he has done a good job keeping the strong tradition going. West has had some great QB's over the last 20 years which certainly helps.
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The coach before Esch won the same number of state titles as Esch

So I’m not sure why you would credit Esch more than the previous guy for turning the program around.
 

Some guy said:
The coach before Esch won the same number of state titles as Esch

So I’m not sure why you would credit Esch more than the previous guy for turning the program around.
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Rick Sutton had some bad teams before, in between, and after those state titles. Sutton made it to state 2 times in his 12 years, Esch made it 9 times in 11 years and was in the section championship game every season he was at West. Consistency matters and those resumes are a little different don't you think?
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Many who vote for these ranking simply rank on reputation and/or record. Not much different than the college rankings.
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Hence 0-2 Wayzata getting votes.
 

EP is the real deal this year but face Prior Lake, Minnetonka, Shakopee, Wayzata, Woodbury, and Rochester Mayo on their regular schedule before the playoffs, so stay tuned.
 

fatgopher said:
I know there typically isn't a lot of mileage for the smaller classes on this thread, but Class 1A has a huge matchup this week between #1 Minneota and #2 BOLD, both tradition-rich programs and section rivals.
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BOLD is solid. big, strong kids that just line up and come right at you. Minneota typically has a little more varied offense - usually closer to 50/50 on the run/pass ratio. and Minneota will have at least one Hennen starting. I think it's required by city ordinance.
 

disco said:
Hence 0-2 Wayzata getting votes.
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Based on their two games in losing to 2-0 teams, one by 1pt and 1 by 14pts. They likely are a bubble team. With only 32 teams in 6A, 1/2 the teams are bubble top 10.
 



disco said:
But that's even more of where open enrollment mitigates any real private school advantage.

We discussed it last year here:

STrib: How transferring in Minnesota high school sports reached 'out of control' status (Mpls South HS basketball lost 8 kids to transfer)

per STrib: Joe Hyser was looking forward to having Minneapolis South's best boys basketball team since he took over the program 27 years ago. He and his team had an opportunity to finally reach the pinnacle: A trip to the state tournament. A few unanswered phone calls to his players in late...
gopherhole.com gopherhole.com

Editing this after re-reading that thread. I think one exception might be something like Gentry, but that's more similar to IMG than it is Hill-Murray or St. Agnes.
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I'm not sure what private school benefit there is under the current rules. According the MSHSL, any transfer to another school, including from public to private and vice versa, is considered a transfer which triggers ineligibility unless, among other things, the entire household moves to another attendance area. For a public school athlete to enroll in a private school and have immediate eligibility, the household would need to move to a new district or, move within the district to a different attendance area within the district.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
BOLD is solid. big, strong kids that just line up and come right at you. Minneota typically has a little more varied offense - usually closer to 50/50 on the run/pass ratio. and Minneota will have at least one Hennen starting. I think it's required by city ordinance.
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Minneota historically was an outlier in SW MN small school football in that it chucked the ball around the field. RTR, with the Bouman brothers was the other. Everyone else was three yards and a cloud of dust. Its a lot different out on the prairie now with more varied offenses.
 

MplsGopher said:
The advantage that private schools have is smaller enrollment size.

Totino at 4A enrollment levels can attract a number of high level players that would not likely exist naturally at a 4A level public school.

You're implying that Simley can recruit just as much. Sure they can, but do they? Would love to know the average distance driven to school each day by the starting 22 of each, Simley and Totino. Wild guess is Totino is probably triple to quadruple and Simley is a bunch of IGH kids and some kids from nextdoor districts (SSP, WSP, maybe Rosemount kid who didn't think he could start there).
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There are certainly examples of privates the excel on the field and punch above their perceived weight and you're imputing motive on that school or on the families the chose to send their kids. The fact of the matter is that for every Totina, there are two or three Maranathas.
 

Gopher 461 said:
EP is the real deal this year but face Prior Lake, Minnetonka, Shakopee, Wayzata, Woodbury, and Rochester Mayo on their regular schedule before the playoffs, so stay tuned.
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PL won't be a problem this week. They've scored 14 points in two weeks, and 7 were from their defense on kind of a fluky fumble/scoop and score.
 



swede2 said:
Minneota historically was an outlier in SW MN small school football in that it chucked the ball around the field. RTR, with the Bouman brothers was the other. Everyone else was three yards and a cloud of dust. Its a lot different out on the prairie now with more varied offenses.
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in the "that makes me feel old" department - last Saturday I watched part of the college game between St. Thomas and the U of South Dakota. USD's starting QB is Todd Bouman's son. (big 6'5" kid - throws lefty.)
 

swede2 said:
There are certainly examples of privates the excel on the field and punch above their perceived weight and you're imputing motive on that school or on the families the chose to send their kids. The fact of the matter is that for every Totina, there are two or three Maranathas.
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Maranatha works hard at Basketball. There’s more movement there than the running back position post Mo. (that looks like it might change)
 

Maverick_52 said:
Rick Sutton had some bad teams before, in between, and after those state titles. Sutton made it to state 2 times in his 12 years, Esch made it 9 times in 11 years and was in the section championship game every season he was at West. Consistency matters and those resumes are a little different don't you think?
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Yeah. One guy took over a program with 2 state titles in the 9 years preceding and another guy took over a loser program

I agree with you it’s different


Both good coaches:
Sutton - took over loser program and eventually won 2 state titles his last 9 years
Esch - took over a program that had won 2 of the previous 9 state titles and won a state title his first year with a great roster that had been coached by Sutton the year before.
Then won one more in his time at Mankato

Meanwhile, Mankato east played in a state title game in 2001 and had fallen off by the time esch took over.

I think they’re both good coaches. It’s funny how into Esch you are though.
 
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@Maverick_52 I think most people would agree that 9 out of 11 is a higher percentage than 2 out of 11, even if the two were great. Be wary of attempts to change the argument away from that, when that was your clearly stated and simple point.

@swede2 All your points are well stated and well taken. But none of them excuse Totino from playing down one class lower than they should be. They should be in 5A.
 

Some guy said:
Yeah. One guy took over a program with 2 state titles in the 9 years preceding and another guy took over a loser program

I agree with you it’s different


Both good coaches:
Sutton - took over loser program and eventually won 2 state titles his last 9 years
Esch - took over a program that had won 2 of the previous 9 state titles and won a state title his first year with a great roster that had been coached by Sutton the year before.
Then won one more in his time at Mankato

Meanwhile, Mankato east played in a state title game in 2001 and had fallen off by the time esch took over.

I think they’re both good coaches. It’s funny how into Esch you are though.
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It’s funny that you don’t have your facts correct. Esch took over the program in 2006. The previous two seasons under Sutton, West was 4-6 and 3-7. Esch took West to the state tournament in his first year but didn’t win a state championship until his third season. Sutton coached zero players on that West state championship team.

Wasn’t trying to discredit Sutton. He did great things for the program and is a Hall of Fame coach for a reason. Esch took West to another level and they have been a powerhouse ever since.
 

Word said:
TG overachieved for years, but it is amazing how quickly they have fallen back to reality.
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When you lose a generational talent like Kowalkowski life comes at you pretty fast
 

Maverick_52 said:
It’s funny that you don’t have your facts correct. Esch took over the program in 2006. The previous two seasons under Sutton, West was 4-6 and 3-7. Esch took West to the state tournament in his first year but didn’t win a state championship until his third season. Sutton coached zero players on that West state championship team.

Wasn’t trying to discredit Sutton. He did great things for the program and is a Hall of Fame coach for a reason. Esch took West to another level and they have been a powerhouse ever since.
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Sutton took the program to another level.
He won two state titles at a loser program.

Esch took the program to a level it had been
to before more often
 

Some guy said:
Sutton took the program to another level.
He won two state titles at a loser program.

Esch took the program to a level it had been
to before more often
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You are correct West had won state championships before Esch got there but they were never a powerhouse year in and year out.

Big difference.
 

Maverick_52 said:
You are correct West had won state championships before Esch got there but they were never a powerhouse year in and year out.

Big difference.
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A program that has won 2 state titles in 9 years is a powerhouse
Sorry to disagree
 

Some nice 6A games tonight:

Minnetonka @ Edina
EP @ Prior Lake
Wayzata @ Shakopee
Centennial @ Maple Grove
 


Maverick_52 said:
Some nice 6A games tonight:

Minnetonka @ Edina
EP @ Prior Lake
Wayzata @ Shakopee
Centennial @ Maple Grove
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I didn't realize there were so many Thursday games this week.
 


Swede said:
Is this due to lack of officials?
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This week partly due to officials. However, some schools/conferences/districts in the past also move games for the Jewish holiday, Rosh Hashanah, which happens to be this Friday/tomorrow.
 

Ope3 said:
This week partly due to officials. However, some schools/conferences/districts in the past also move games for the Jewish holiday, Rosh Hashanah, which happens to be this Friday/tomorrow.
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That makes sense.
 

Wayzata drops to 0-3 with a loss against Shakopee.
Minnetonka up big on Edina.
EP beats Prior Lake.
Maple Grove wins big against Centennial.
 

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