2022 Transfer Portal Discussion

leib0039

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How do you keep those 12 all happy? Arkansas will be a fascinating case study this year.
That is the coaches job, coaches all across the country have to do it. I would rather have 12 capable players and 2-3 get PO'd and leave at the end of the year than have 10 happy ones and gamble on injuries/fouls/etc. I am sure Duke has 2-3 guys every year who are upset they were 4* guys and ride the pine, but its worked for them.
 

greatdane1973

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A post I made prior to Cooper/Garcia coming on board that is still fitting after reading all the back and forth posts, including myself, about forming next years roster. In comparison, the football board is pretty much silent about PJ's roster building. Clearly this board lacks confidence in Ben in comparison to PJ, which can be justified.

"Come on Ben. Do your job! This GH crowd is really getting anxious and very nervous. To the point of needing psych help and a boatload of meds to maintain our sanity. Unveal your findings stat so we can stop this craziness, angst and gnashing of teeth and get on with all the dissecting, over analyzing, criticizing and complaining about all the new Gophers. Or maybe even get excited and be happy about the newcomers.

Its what we do."
Ok in
Have you ever taken a test drive and decided not to buy the car? You researched the car, you thought it would be a good fit and liked it enough to go to the dealership to drive it. But in the end you decided not to buy it.

Transfer recruiting is done over a super short window. You aren't establishing a relationship over multiple years and really getting to know a player inside and out like you do with high school recruits. I can totally understand how you could bring a player in for a visit and decide they weren't a good fit.

Tough to say why we haven't landed any of the off guards we have gone after to this point. Guessing the reason is different with every kid. Sure there were some we wanted that went elsewhere and bet there were also others we thought we wanted but decided we ultimately didn't.
Lol
 

ecoperson

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That is the coaches job, coaches all across the country have to do it. I would rather have 12 capable players and 2-3 get PO'd and leave at the end of the year than have 10 happy ones and gamble on injuries/fouls/etc. I am sure Duke has 2-3 guys every year who are upset they were 4* guys and ride the pine, but its worked for them.
It all depends on how it impacts the locker room. You can make a large roster work if everyone accepts their role. A toxic locker room is not a winning locker room. Kentucky should likely win the natty every year but the combination of immature kids and limited minutes seems to always impede their success.

In Johnson's presser, he said he has a lot of concerns about the locker room and expectations. While he was discussing NIL, you can tell a strong locker room is important.

Developing teams like the U never want a kid to leave POd as this leads to burned bridges and hard feelings somewhere in the recruiting circles.
 

RockChalk

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How many guys do you think we will play? We recruited 4 freshmen and I expect at least 3 to get decent minutes. We have Fox, Garcia, Battle, Ihnen, Thompson & Cooper who will get minutes. Where are the minutes for these other guys are going to come from? If you bench the some of the fresh then we will complain about them being in the portal next year

I don't think you can worry about "where are the minutes going to come for the others". Stack your roster with as much talent as possible and worry about who will leave at the end of the year.

I know this is apple to oranges but KU was 12 deep last year that included 3 freshmen & 4 transfers. I think you just make it work and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.
 

tjgopher

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I am sure Duke has 2-3 guys every year who are upset they were 4* guys and ride the pine, but its worked for them.

I can't speak for all Duke teams, but in looking at the one that just made the Final Four, they appear to not have a bunch of 4* guys riding the pine.

They had a 14-man roster. They played 8 guys double digit minutes. All 8 were on scholarship, including a few transfers. They had a 3* freshman who played in 21 games, but only averaged 4 min/game and a Davidson transfer who played in 27 games but only averaged 5 min/game. That's it.

So, they had 10 scholarship players, 8 played a lot. Two guys who likely knew the deal when they got to campus, played in many games, but not many minutes.

Otherwise, everyone else on the roster was a walk-on who doesn't play much.

With the transfer portal, I really do think the days of filling 13 scholarships with actual scholarship-quality players are likely over. Get 8-9 quality, good scholarship guys who can play and ride with them. Fill the rest with walk-ons and scout teamers.
 


leib0039

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It all depends on how it impacts the locker room. You can make a large roster work if everyone accepts their role. A toxic locker room is not a winning locker room. Kentucky should likely win the natty every year but the combination of immature kids and limited minutes seems to always impede their success.

In Johnson's presser, he said he has a lot of concerns about the locker room and expectations. While he was discussing NIL, you can tell a strong locker room is important.

Developing teams like the U never want a kid to leave POd as this leads to burned bridges and hard feelings somewhere in the recruiting circles.
I don't disagree with anything you said, it is all very true. However, sometimes you have to maybe take a risk, push things, or know that a few burnt bridges wont bring the whole program down. I can promise you, if we get to 10 scholarship players every year and Ben is afraid to add anyone else due to locker concerns, he will not be coach here long, because that is no way to build a winning program. In today's day and age no one is ever happy and transfers are going to happen, if you tell every kid they are going to play 30 min a game and it doesnt happen well they are free to leave.

Ben seems like a genuinely great dude, maybe that is some of his issue, I am sure some coaches have no problem lying to kids, maybe he doenst want to. Like it or not, lying/over promising is probably something you have to do.

EDIT* In regards to what Duke can do, sure last year they had 10 scholarship guys, They basically played 7. Their 8th guy was Joey Baker, a sr 4* guy with plenty of experience, their 9th guy was Bates from Davidson, a guy who had a good amount of D1 expeirence, and their 10th guy was Jaylen Blakes, a 4* fr with nice upside and ability. If thats your 10 you have more leeway. Our current 10 is Battle/Garcia no doubt good Cooper-We think good but transfer up not 100% lock, Fox/Ihnen again we all like but coming off MAJOR injuries, TT who looked like a lost puppy most of last year, and then 4 3* freshman who look solid but also dont jump out as WHOA LOOK WHAT THEY ARE DOING AS FRESHMAN guys. That 10 and Duke's 10 are in no way shape or form comparable. When Ben has the 10 that Duke has then I can buy the argument only 10 scholarship players is a good plan. Essentially what i am saying is we dont have the elite quality yet so we need quantity to make up for that.
 
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Gopherfan84

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That is the coaches job, coaches all across the country have to do it. I would rather have 12 capable players and 2-3 get PO'd and leave at the end of the year than have 10 happy ones and gamble on injuries/fouls/etc. I am sure Duke has 2-3 guys every year who are upset they were 4* guys and ride the pine, but its worked for them.
That’s the thing. Coaches don’t do it anymore. They aren’t filling rosters because it’s not working. There job is to make the judgement and manage their roster. They are finding have my 11 true scholarship guys are enough. Those 2-3 who are mad can kill a locker room.
From the players standpoint, guys are more selective about where they go. Most want to see a clear path to some time.
 


Gopherfan84

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I don't think you can worry about "where are the minutes going to come for the others". Stack your roster with as much talent as possible and worry about who will leave at the end of the year.

I know this is apple to oranges but KU was 12 deep last year that included 3 freshmen & 4 transfers. I think you just make it work and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.
That works for Kansas and UNC. We aren’t there yet.
 



Gopherfan84

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I don't disagree with anything you said, it is all very true. However, sometimes you have to maybe take a risk, push things, or know that a few burnt bridges wont bring the whole program down. I can promise you, if we get to 10 scholarship players every year and Ben is afraid to add anyone else due to locker concerns, he will not be coach here long, because that is no way to build a winning program. In today's day and age no one is ever happy and transfers are going to happen, if you tell every kid they are going to play 30 min a game and it doesnt happen well they are free to leave.

Ben seems like a genuinely great dude, maybe that is some of his issue, I am sure some coaches have no problem lying to kids, maybe he doenst want to. Like it or not, lying/over promising is probably something you have to do.
Richard lied to kids. Guys who don’t. Matt Painter, Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, Nate Oates.
 

tjgopher

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I would rather have 12 capable players and 2-3 get PO'd and leave at the end of the year than have 10 happy ones and gamble on injuries/fouls/etc.

Disagree totally. If the 10 happy ones are good players, then I take that all day, every day over having 13 capable players with 2-3 unhappy ones. Most programs are only playing 8 ideally anyway, so having 10 really good players protects against injuries and fouls enough. Don't think about last year. We had maybe 5 capable Big Ten players. Don't let that skew how things will look in the future. If Ben gets 10 quality, Big Ten guys on the roster, that's all he will ever need. And, it isn't a bad thing to always have a spot or two open. Filling a spot for the sake of filling a spot - in today's world - often isn't the best way.
 

leib0039

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Richard lied to kids. Guys who don’t. Matt Painter, Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, Nate Oates.
and who are your sources? Or did you just pick coaches you like that happen to win ha

Since you have 0 idea, I will just go the later :). Those coaches all have had plenty of kids transfer so
 

tjgopher

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In regards to what Duke can do, sure last year they had 10 scholarship guys, They basically played 7. Their 8th guy was Joey Baker, a sr 4* guy with plenty of experience, their 9th guy was Bates from Davidson, a guy who had a good amount of D1 expeirence, and their 10th guy was Jaylen Blakes, a 4* fr with nice upside and ability. If thats your 10 you have more leeway. Our current 10 is Battle/Garcia no doubt good Cooper-We think good but transfer up not 100% lock, Fox/Ihnen again we all like but coming off MAJOR injuries, TT who looked like a lost puppy most of last year, and then 4 3* freshman who look solid but also dont jump out as WHOA LOOK WHAT THEY ARE DOING AS FRESHMAN guys. That 10 and Duke's 10 are in no way shape or form comparable. When Ben has the 10 that Duke has then I can buy the argument only 10 scholarship players is a good plan. Essentially what i am saying is we dont have the elite quality yet so we need quantity to make up for that.

I am willing to concede that we won't be Duke next year or likely ever. I understand it is a process. Letting the young guards play next year could be the best thing long term for the program, even if it means we win 15 instead of 18. That's okay. But, bringing in a bunch of marginal guys as "insurance policies" to fill the roster and potentially create unnecessary stress and tension, hoping to somehow strike gold, is not the way I would build a program in year two of my coaching career.

That said, if Ben can find one more sharpshooter to add to the roster, I'm on board.

Otherwise, I don't need to see any more roster additions at this point.
 




leib0039

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I am willing to concede that we won't be Duke next year or likely ever. I understand it is a process. Letting the young guards play next year could be the best thing long term for the program, even if it means we win 15 instead of 18. That's okay. But, bringing in a bunch of marginal guys as "insurance policies" to fill the roster and potentially create unnecessary stress and tension, hoping to somehow strike gold, is not the way I would build a program in year two of my coaching career.

That said, if Ben can find one more sharpshooter to add to the roster, I'm on board.

Otherwise, I don't need to see any more roster additions at this point.
Yep I totally get your point for sure, not disagreeing, but if a guy or 2 gets hurt, leaves the team, COVID, just isnt B1G good whatever the case may be, I don't want to hear this same group that says we are ok with 10 scholarships used only also saying "well its just bad luck that we have no depth". Its a choice, so if thats Ben's choice so be it, but then there can be 0 complaining about a lack of depth and bad luck, that was the bed you made so you have to lie in it.
 

tjgopher

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Yep I totally get your point for sure, not disagreeing, but if a guy or 2 gets hurt, leaves the team, COVID, just isnt B1G good whatever the case may be, I don't want to hear this same group that says we are ok with 10 scholarships used only also saying "well its just bad luck that we have no depth". Its a choice, so if thats Ben's choice so be it, but then there can be 0 complaining about a lack of depth and bad luck, that was the bed you made so you have to lie in it.

But, it would be bad luck. And, assuming Ben gets 10 good scholarship players (and hopefully a couple of really good ones), then he will be in the same boat as most of his Big Ten counterparts. If 2 guys get hurt, a guy leaves the team, or COVID happens, that team will have some issues. Adding three marginal players to the ten you already have likely wouldn't help much in regard to wins/losses anyway. It isn't like those guys are just sitting there being saved as secret weapons.

The key, of course, is getting 10 good scholarship players (and hopefully 2-3 really good ones). May not happen this coming year. But, hopefully, soon.
 
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RockChalk

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That works for Kansas and UNC. We aren’t there yet.

Yeah I would agree with "we aren't there yet" With all due respect to Ben Johnson Minnesota will never be there with the likes of those two that you mention. We can all be hopeful that at some point in the not to distant future the Gopher will be Big 10 competitive again year in and year out.

thanks for the feedback
 

eker0016

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But, it would be bad luck. And, assuming Ben gets 10 good scholarship players (and hopefully a couple of really good ones), then he will be in the same boat as most of his Big Ten counterparts. If 2 guys get hurt, a guy leaves the team, or COVID happens, that team will have some issues. Adding three marginal players to the ten you already have likely wouldn't help much in regard to wins/losses anyway. It isn't like those guys are just sitting there being saved as secret weapons.

The key, of course, is getting 10 good scholarship players (and hopefully 2-3 really good ones). May not happen this coming year. But, hopefully, soon.
Honest question I do not know: have the rest of the teams in the B10 given a walk on a scholarship and/or had open scholarships the last couple years? Would love to see a scholarship grid for the other squads out there.

If we are going to be consistently running a -1 scholarship deficit, we may as well reserve that spot for a developmental spot. It makes no sense to "bank" a scholarship if you never end up spending it.
 

fan of Ray Williams

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Could be off, but think there were 12 last year. Of course two were injured. Don’t remember and am too lazy to research if any were added after the injuries. Kind of think Daniels and Danny O were.
 

cjbfbp

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Could be off, but think there were 12 last year. Of course two were injured. Don’t remember and am too lazy to research if any were added after the injuries. Kind of think Daniels and Danny O were.

That's right. 12 scholarship players with 10 active.
 

cjbfbp

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Yep I totally get your point for sure, not disagreeing, but if a guy or 2 gets hurt, leaves the team, COVID, just isnt B1G good whatever the case may be, I don't want to hear this same group that says we are ok with 10 scholarships used only also saying "well its just bad luck that we have no depth". Its a choice, so if thats Ben's choice so be it, but then there can be 0 complaining about a lack of depth and bad luck, that was the bed you made so you have to lie in it.

People used to talk about Pitino being unlucky. Trouble is that he was unlucky a lot and he never seemed to be able to rectify it.
 


60's Guy

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In this philosophy some of you guys got for recruiting 10 good players and 3 marginal...why would anyone do that? What if the marginal guys don't want to leave and hang around four years?
Yes, it's harder to coach 13 talented guys but for $5 million dollars a year I think one of qualifications should be that you can do it.
It has not happened in 10 years that we have not lost one, two, three top 8 players throughout the year for a good number of games or the entire season due to injury, sickness, suspension etc. We have proven you can't win with 8 guys at Minnesota. We do not have all 5 stars.
 

Dakota2

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Yep I totally get your point for sure, not disagreeing, but if a guy or 2 gets hurt, leaves the team, COVID, just isnt B1G good whatever the case may be, I don't want to hear this same group that says we are ok with 10 scholarships used only also saying "well its just bad luck that we have no depth". Its a choice, so if thats Ben's choice so be it, but then there can be 0 complaining about a lack of depth and bad luck, that was the bed you made so you have to lie in it.
We have depth this year even if No one else is added. We have 10 men. If you think Ramberg is good enough for a minute here and there, it's eleven. Last year he had six guys who could play.
 

GopherPlaya

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I am willing to concede that we won't be Duke next year or likely ever. I understand it is a process. Letting the young guards play next year could be the best thing long term for the program, even if it means we win 15 instead of 18. That's okay. But, bringing in a bunch of marginal guys as "insurance policies" to fill the roster and potentially create unnecessary stress and tension, hoping to somehow strike gold, is not the way I would build a program in year two of my coaching career.

That said, if Ben can find one more sharpshooter to add to the roster, I'm on board.

Otherwise, I don't need to see any more roster additions at this point.
💯
 

GopherPlaya

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Yep I totally get your point for sure, not disagreeing, but if a guy or 2 gets hurt, leaves the team, COVID, just isnt B1G good whatever the case may be, I don't want to hear this same group that says we are ok with 10 scholarships used only also saying "well its just bad luck that we have no depth". Its a choice, so if thats Ben's choice so be it, but then there can be 0 complaining about a lack of depth and bad luck, that was the bed you made so you have to lie in it.
So does signing a 12 or 13 put us over the top?
 

leib0039

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So does signing a 12 or 13 put us over the top?
In my opinion had we also got one of hunter or McIntosh and one of Walton Jones or strong yes I think that puts us over the top. In year 2 I define that as a top 1/2 of the league team and a top 8ish seed in the tournament.
 

GopherPlaya

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In my opinion had we also got one of hunter or McIntosh and one of Walton Jones or strong yes I think that puts us over the top. In year 2 I define that as a top 1/2 of the league team and a top 8ish seed in the tournament.
I don’t understand how any of those signings are the moves to put us over the top. For all we know Carrington can have a freshmen year that is very similar to the one Walton had. Also McIntosh is as much of an unknown as anyone else we still can bring in. He’s an unproven guard in the Big Ten & he was very interested but we chose Cooper instead.
 

60's Guy

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Disagree totally. If the 10 happy ones are good players, then I take that all day, every day over having 13 capable players with 2-3 unhappy ones. Most programs are only playing 8 ideally anyway, so having 10 really good players protects against injuries and fouls enough. Don't think about last year. We had maybe 5 capable Big Ten players. Don't let that skew how things will look in the future. If Ben gets 10 quality, Big Ten guys on the roster, that's all he will ever need. And, it isn't a bad thing to always have a spot or two open. Filling a spot for the sake of filling a spot - in today's world - often isn't the best way.
Agreed, filling a spot to fill a spot is foolhardy and another topic.
I subscribe to PJ's philosophy: "My job as a coach is to recruit somebody better to take your spot. Your job is to change your best and not let that happen."

Richard had 8 good players in many of his seasons. That's all he played and every year guys got hurt, suspended, quit or somehow were not available. Each year we went from Top 25 to losing often because quality players were unavailable to replace the top 7 or 8.

Now we are thinking it will work for Ben. We don't have eight 5 star guys on our rosters who can absorb absences.
Texas Tech and Houston played 10/11 guys...they had quality players hurt. Eric Musselman has got a roster full of guys who all expect to play a lot. Play hard, play together, become a true team.
Houstons two best players got hurt early in the season. They didn't skip a beat to a deep NCAA run.
There are many examples of lesser recruited guys playing on teams who 9, 10 guys and win.
Saint Peters is another example.
Wisconsin had a couple injuries to end the season and lost the title and their NCAA run because they had no depth.
 




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