2019 Recruiting Class

[Gophergrandpa]

The 2019 Class was 10th in the B1G snd 45th nationally, but included three transfers not included in the rankings (PJ’s first meaningful scholarship transfers): Ben St. Juste, Micah Dew Treadway and Michael Tarbutt. Contributors (and future apparent contributors) include Tyler Nubin, Trill Carter, Trey Potts, Cole Kramer, Michael Brown-Stephens, Brady Weeks, JJ Guedet, Logan Richter, and Solomon Brown. Already gone from this class are Kelvin Clemmons, Jacob Clark, Rashod Cheney, Keonte Schad, Nnamdi Adim-Madumere, James Gordon IV, D’Vion Harris, MJ Anderson, Cam Wiley, Michael Lantz and Jason Williamson (injury). Effect of the transfer portal starts to shows up in this class. The job of coaches in respect to personnel assemblage and retention is really changing.

 

[TheNorthernAmir]

Damn. I was super excited about this class, mainly due to the list of names that have already left the program

 

[MGGopher]

Damn. I was super excited about this class, mainly due to the list of names that have already left the program

Ditto. It's crazy to look back and remember how pumped I was about the team signing Clark, Cheney, Schad, Nmandi, and Gordon especially. Those were recruiting wars that Fleck won against stiff competition, so to me it was another really positive sign of growth in the program. Them leaving certainly isn't a good thing in my mind, but the fact that none of them really made an impact in 3 years and the team has quality players at every position they vacated is probably another sign that the program is moving forward. Interesting there's multiple angles to this.

 

[Fleckoff]

Believe Willis was a part of this class as well, will see if he becomes a contributor. I would say we've gotten more out of this class then the 2018 class. Too early to tell yet with 2020 and 2021, some of those transfers had some impressive offers and Lantz was the starting kicker until injuries took him out, but the thing is Wiley, Clark, Chaney, Schad, NAM, Gordon 4, Harris were all passed up by better players, Williamson and Lantz had injuries, Clemmons was the Vic Virantes of this class, left faster than he came in. Brady Weeks has a stranglehold on long snapping, Kramer has carved out a nice nitch and will compete for qb1 in 2023, Potts if he can get healthy will either be in the pair or the spare , MBS, has carved out a roll. Trill Carter and Nubin are legit starters. Richter should be in the two deeps next year. Quin Carroll transferred back in, JJ will compete for a spot on the line, Solomon Brown and Willis are on Special Teams and should be in the two deeps next Fall

 

[TheNorthernAmir]

Ditto. It's crazy to look back and remember how pumped I was about the team signing Clark, Cheney, Schad, Nmandi, and Gordon especially. Those were recruiting wars that Fleck won against stiff competition, so to me it was another really positive sign of growth in the program. Them leaving certainly isn't a good thing in my mind, but the fact that none of them really made an impact in 3 years and the team has quality players at every position they vacated is probably another sign that the program is moving forward. Interesting there's multiple angles to this.

I will say this -

I unfortunately get the vibe from Fleck that he's the type of coach to let older, "program type" guys play regardless if they are actually the best option. This can present a tough situation because you then have younger, higher-ranked guys waiting behind them and not interested in sitting back for 2-3 years.

We aren't Alabama, where 4 and 5 star kids have no problem sitting for 3 years. A lot of the talented, higher ranked kids coming here from out of state are usually expecting to play quite quickly - that's the allure of choosing Minnesota right now.

 

[WAGopher]

I will say this -

I unfortunately get the vibe from Fleck that he's the type of coach to let older, "program type" guys play regardless if they are actually the best option. This can present a tough situation because you then have younger, higher-ranked guys waiting behind them and not interested in sitting back for 2-3 years.

We aren't Alabama, where 4 and 5 star kids have no problem sitting for 3 years. A lot of the talented, higher ranked kids coming here from out of state are usually expecting to play quite quickly - that's the allure of choosing Minnesota right now.

I think Fleck and Company do a pretty good job of rotating players at most positions except QB and RB. Injuries at RB this year forced their hand and they then had great success with 5 RBs. Maybe this experience will be the catalyst for change.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I will say this -

I unfortunately get the vibe from Fleck that he's the type of coach to let older, "program type" guys play regardless if they are actually the best option. This can present a tough situation because you then have younger, higher-ranked guys waiting behind them and not interested in sitting back for 2-3 years.

We aren't Alabama, where 4 and 5 star kids have no problem sitting for 3 years. A lot of the talented, higher ranked kids coming here from out of state are usually expecting to play quite quickly - that's the allure of choosing Minnesota right now.

The "best option" thing keeps coming up in these discussions. Fans may not agree who the best option is but I find it very hard to believe the coaches are not playing the guy they feel is the best option (note: Best option and most talented are not the same thing).

So do you believe the coaches should be playing less experienced guys with what the recruiting sites/fans believe to have higher upsides over the guys they feel are the best option?

 

[Gophers1992]

The "best option" thing keeps coming up in these discussions. Fans may not agree who the best option is but I find it very hard to believe the coaches are not playing the guy they feel is the best option (note: Best option and most talented are not the same thing).

So do you believe the coaches should be playing less experienced guys with what the recruiting sites/fans believe to have higher upsides over the guys they feel are the best option?

Coaches have 7 figure salaries dependent on their ability to win football games. Anyone who thinks they aren't playing guys who they believe are the best option are out of their minds. Sure, they may occasionally be wrong about who the best option is, but for fans to think that either a. they are intentionally playing lesser players or b. they as fans have the best idea of who the best option is, is ridiculous.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Coaches have 7 figure salaries dependent on their ability to win football games. Anyone who thinks they aren't playing guys who they believe are the best option are out of their minds. Sure, they may occasionally be wrong about who the best option is, but for fans to think that either a. they are intentionally playing lesser players or b. they as fans have the best idea of who the best option is, is ridiculous.

Some fans don't realize that a kids recruiting ranking means nothing once they set foot on campus. This isn't the NFL where a high round draft pick is going to have an advantage over another player since the organization has millions invested in him.

There are fans that would build their depth chart based on what the kids were ranked out of high school. Coaches don't do that.

 

[TheNorthernAmir]

Some fans don't realize that a kids recruiting ranking means nothing once they set foot on campus. This isn't the NFL where a high round draft pick is going to have an advantage over another player since the organization has millions invested in him.

There are fans that would build their depth chart based on what the kids were ranked out of high school. Coaches don't do that.

This is not what I meant.

There is a spectrum of "why the coaches play who they play" and it's not as simple as "PJ gets paid millions, he'd gonna play the best kid"

Sometimes a coach will play a kid with 1/2 the talent ahead of the kid behind him due to playbook knowledge, dependency in running a play, etc. This often happens in skill positions and positions like linebacker, when a coach depends on a kid to know his playbook. For example, a kid like MSM is far from our most athletically gifted LB, but the coaches have been clear that he starts because of his knowledge of the playbook and scheming.

This idea that the coaches' livelihoods depend on playing the best kids, therefore they are always playing the best kids, is, in reality, far more complex than that. Sometimes coaches will play kids that may not give them they best result, but they won't hurt them too much either. Look at that Williams kid that transferred from Ohio State to Bama because he couldn't see the field and OSU and now he's the best WR in the country.

That's over there, though. My point is that I don't know what the implications are of higher-ranked out of state kids leaving after 1-2 years here. It's easy to say "well, they just got beat out" but I still think it's a bit weird to see so many names decide to leave so soon.

I'm just JAQing off right now.

 

[Replacement Gopher]

Believe Willis was a part of this class as well, will see if he becomes a contributor. I would say we've gotten more out of this class then the 2018 class. Too early to tell yet with 2020 and 2021, some of those transfers had some impressive offers and Lantz was the starting kicker until injuries took him out, but the thing is Wiley, Clark, Chaney, Schad, NAM, Gordon 4, Harris were all passed up by better players, Williamson and Lantz had injuries, Clemmons was the Vic Virantes of this class, left faster than he came in. Brady Weeks has a stranglehold on long snapping, Kramer has carved out a nice nitch and will compete for qb1 in 2023, Potts if he can get healthy will either be in the pair or the spare , MBS, has carved out a roll. Trill Carter and Nubin are legit starters. Richter should be in the two deeps next year. Quin Carroll transferred back in, JJ will compete for a spot on the line, Solomon Brown and Willis are on Special Teams and should be in the two deeps next Fall

Kelvin Clemmons back in the transfer portal, so there’s that.

 

[MGGopher]

Some fans don't realize that a kids recruiting ranking means nothing once they set foot on campus. This isn't the NFL where a high round draft pick is going to have an advantage over another player since the organization has millions invested in him.

There are fans that would build their depth chart based on what the kids were ranked out of high school. Coaches don't do that.

Yeah, I think this is mostly true. And to @TheNorthernAmir point, I do think there's cases where coaches play somebody who's a little less talented (not 50% less, IMO...but 10%?), but who they think gives the team a better chance to win.

That said, I can't remember a single instance in Fleck's tenure when a young player came in, wowed, and made me wonder why he hadn't been playing earlier. In fact, the opposite has often been true. For example, during the rough start to 2020, I was wondering why young "studs" like Cheney, Gordon, Willis, Glaze, etc. weren't getting run. Well, after seeing them struggle worse than the starters when given opportunities, I had my answer. On the flipside, guys like Bateman and Walley made an instant impact as Freshmen. I doubt Fleck ALWAYS plays the most talented player, but I'd say the percentage of time he's playing the guy who gives the team the best chance to win is very close to 100%.

 

[Dakota2]

Coaches have 7 figure salaries dependent on their ability to win football games. Anyone who thinks they aren't playing guys who they believe are the best option are out of their minds. Sure, they may occasionally be wrong about who the best option is, but for fans to think that either a. they are intentionally playing lesser players or b. they as fans have the best idea of who the best option is, is ridiculous.

There are a lot of elements in "best option", especially at QB. Fleck wants his QB to be the recognized leader on the team. Thus, the guy with the most experience remains the leader. He will rotate at other positions when abilities are more or less even. Not quarterback.