2012 Recruiting

Just refuting something over and over and telling lies about what I said does not make it any truer because you say it.

Well, I will never be convinced that recruiting kids that need special development will somehow become greater athletes than their counterparts at championship level B!G schools. I am grateful that Jerry Kill has not called this a great recruiting class. I think he would say it needs to be better to truly compete in our conference. The media has ranked Minnesota last or near last in recruiting this year and for our chances of winning the B!G. So, if I were to challenge the status of the virtual Delphi group that ordained the Goophies to come in last, I would be a bit naive. I won't challenge their opinion. I agree with it for the reasons I already have stated: low recruiting scores, longer development time, lag, lag, lag our peers. I also think too many Gopher fans, like yourself, have a penchant for magical thinking, and will continue to deny simple facts -- like thinking an unranked recruit in June is somehow something more than a diamond in the rough. Not every diamond is worthy of being sold for their flaws. The same with trying to sell me that all these gems are worth buying into for their clarity, color and carets. They all lack top strength, speed, or endurance. They all lack refined football skills to some degree or another to be considered lesser football players than the hundreds of others that were available and were picked up by other schools in the BCS.

According to the BCS officials, all 120 D1 schools are BCS, not just the top 6 conferences (wink, wink). Of those, Rivals has rankings for 19 categories. So, potentially their could be as many as 1900 players ranked. Although, not all do have that many. But, for our purpose, as biased as it is, I will say our share is 4 of 1900 or a mere .002 of ranked players. If we got a standard amount, we should have packed in a walloping .008 of these guys. So, we compiled 1/4th of our potential. If half of the recruits would not qualify academically for the U, then we are still only getting half our potential. If Rivals only ranked 950 players, we would still only have achieved half our potential. The would have's, should have's, ought to's really have no basis for suggesting our recruits are fabulous. They missed out on potentially 1900 top ranked spots. More cause for alarm. Not less cause.

If we win 5 games this year, instead of my 1 game prediction, I think that would be the top of my potential range of potential wins in a best case scenario. But, you didn't ask if I had a best case scenario. I only offered the worst case scenario. Why did I do that? In the hope that the board would put some pressure on Kill to improve his results. I wanted the board to put some fire under him to perform. Instead, you and others are willing to give him a free pass. Why? We fired Brew because he didn't get a free pass last year. Why give any of our coaches free passes ever? Is Kill proving in recruiting that he deserves a free pass? 4 out of 1900 is far less than 16 out of 16 recruits in their top 100. 16 would be a normal potential of top 1900 players in the BCS. If we only hit on 12, I would be satisfied that the class hit on all cylinders. This class fired on 1 cylinder on a 4 cylinder economy class vehicle. Nothing to crow about here.

You're right, what fans say on a message board will undoubtedly influence our coaching staff. I think we should all complain how conservative Kill and staff's playing calling has been over the years, and demand that they run a triple reverse on the opening play of the USC game.
 

Just refuting something over and over and telling lies about what I said does not make it any truer because you say it.

Well, I will never be convinced that recruiting kids that need special development will somehow become greater athletes than their counterparts at championship level B!G schools. I am grateful that Jerry Kill has not called this a great recruiting class. I think he would say it needs to be better to truly compete in our conference. The media has ranked Minnesota last or near last in recruiting this year and for our chances of winning the B!G. So, if I were to challenge the status of the virtual Delphi group that ordained the Goophies to come in last, I would be a bit naive. I won't challenge their opinion. I agree with it for the reasons I already have stated: low recruiting scores, longer development time, lag, lag, lag our peers. I also think too many Gopher fans, like yourself, have a penchant for magical thinking, and will continue to deny simple facts -- like thinking an unranked recruit in June is somehow something more than a diamond in the rough. Not every diamond is worthy of being sold for their flaws. The same with trying to sell me that all these gems are worth buying into for their clarity, color and carets. They all lack top strength, speed, or endurance. They all lack refined football skills to some degree or another to be considered lesser football players than the hundreds of others that were available and were picked up by other schools in the BCS.

According to the BCS officials, all 120 D1 schools are BCS, not just the top 6 conferences (wink, wink). Of those, Rivals has rankings for 19 categories. So, potentially their could be as many as 1900 players ranked. Although, not all do have that many. But, for our purpose, as biased as it is, I will say our share is 4 of 1900 or a mere .002 of ranked players. If we got a standard amount, we should have packed in a walloping .008 of these guys. So, we compiled 1/4th of our potential. If half of the recruits would not qualify academically for the U, then we are still only getting half our potential. If Rivals only ranked 950 players, we would still only have achieved half our potential. The would have's, should have's, ought to's really have no basis for suggesting our recruits are fabulous. They missed out on potentially 1900 top ranked spots. More cause for alarm. Not less cause.

If we win 5 games this year, instead of my 1 game prediction, I think that would be the top of my potential range of potential wins in a best case scenario. But, you didn't ask if I had a best case scenario. I only offered the worst case scenario. Why did I do that? In the hope that the board would put some pressure on Kill to improve his results. I wanted the board to put some fire under him to perform. Instead, you and others are willing to give him a free pass. Why? We fired Brew because he didn't get a free pass last year. Why give any of our coaches free passes ever? Is Kill proving in recruiting that he deserves a free pass? 4 out of 1900 is far less than 16 out of 16 recruits in their top 100. 16 would be a normal potential of top 1900 players in the BCS. If we only hit on 12, I would be satisfied that the class hit on all cylinders. This class fired on 1 cylinder on a 4 cylinder economy class vehicle. Nothing to crow about here.

3M, you oughta go work for a former Gophers coach in his next coaching gig. Then, you can recruit all the 4*/5* of this world because they will magically want to sign up with you. They'll buy into your formula for success. Coaching isn't important when you have all the horses you want.
 

Did that d@uche bag troll just spend that much time on a useless and senseless post? He needs troll posting lessons.
 


You're right, what fans say on a message board will undoubtedly influence our coaching staff. I think we should all complain how conservative Kill and staff's playing calling has been over the years, and demand that they run a triple reverse on the opening play of the USC game.

I had to laugh, too. In a career full of diabolically bad posts, this is the Academy Award winner for MMM.


I'll use some of his logically stylings. Let's put this into perspective. Who do coaches "listen to"?:
1) Their staff;
2) Other coaches that they respect;
3) Former coaches worked with;
4) Dead coaches (books, video);
5) Close Family members;

And then consequently, who do they not listen or pay attention to:
1) TV Media;
2) Print Media;
3) Radio Media;
4) Bloggers;
5) Forum Posters;
6) Crazy Forum Posters.

So that puts MMM 10 levels below a coach's number one "go to guy," and 6 below dead coaches...
 


Here's a thought. I seem to remember hearing that the U didn't have that many scholarships to give out for next year. It seems like Kill is signing a lot of kids - which makes me wonder if the rumors about attrition from the current roster are true. I don't see Kill as the kind of coach who deliberately over-signs a class. Does anybody have an accurate read on # of scholarships available, compared to # of verbal commitments so far?

Nobody can sign yet. These are just verbals, and as we all learned earlier this year verbals are worth exactly the amount of paper they are written on, which is none.
 

Since you love running these numbers so much and put so much stock in them you should be more accurate with your information. Rivals doesn't have a top100 for every position, not even close. For example, Pro-style QB ranks 30 players. Same with Dual-threat QBs. All-purpose rbs they only rank 15 while the plain old rb category ranks 55. A whopping 5 players are listed under the fb category. And only 10 kickers are ranked. In fact the ONLY category that list 100 players is WR, all the other categories rank less then 100. So go back to the drawing board.

If you were capable of reading, I even warned you that there were not 1900 ranked players. For previous years to the 2012 class, there were even more dual threat qb's ranked in previous years of up to 35. Other years, there were as few as 25. But, for all years prior to this ranked group, we have the least in 9 years on Rivals with 4 players ranked in all categories. I am sure it would be similar with Scout, ESPN and others. Does it really matter if the baseline was 1900 or 600? Not really. Because the bottom line is that we still have a small fraction of the ranked recruits we get on an average year over the past 9 years. That is not building up the program. That is a retrograde movement, a retreat, a loss of further prestige for the program. Mason, who we all can agree built up low level recruits into phenomenal players on the offensive line and at running back consistently brought in higher ranked players to surround those he built up. And I think we can all agree Mason was not the best recruiter. So, where does Kill fit into this comparison. He compares unfavorably to Mason in recruiting. He compares unfavorably to Brewster in recruiting. Why praise him so much when he has yet to prove the value in these choices? It is far more speculative to say they will perform well, than my position where I can prove by the numbers they are higher risk players by being unranked.
 


Take it for what it is worth. My uncle was telling me that there was a 7 on 7 or camp (forgive me I wasn't listening completely) at the U and Mitch Leidner put on a clinic and Philip Nelson looked alright. Leidner was the talk fo the day. Like I said I did not see this, but he did.
 



3M Man

He compares unfavorably to Mason in recruiting. He compares unfavorably to Brewster in recruiting. Why praise him so much when he has yet to prove the value in these choices? It is far more speculative to say they will perform well, than my position where I can prove by the numbers they are higher risk players by being unranked.

I have no problem with people who has different opinions but I do have a problem with people that present an agenda and try to back it up with poorly constructed logic and information. By doing so you have only proven that you will (1.) say anything to support your agenda when the facts don’t support it and (2.) that you don’t have a clue about Jerry Kill’s history and abilities. I was going to also add that you seem to be a really lousy troll but for all I know you may actually believe your dribble.

As a result of your inane desire to prove that Kill’s 2012 recruiting class is going to be a disaster you have lost any remaining creditability that you may ever had. It is pretty safe to say Jerry Kill’s peers have a great deal more creditability, knowledge, and ability to judge him than you do. I suggest that you click on the following KFAN site posted earlier to hear what they have to say about your Kill’s abilities. What I found most interesting is that they were even more complimentary about him off air than they were on.

http://www.kfan.com/pages/gophers.html?article=8907502

This never ending attempt of yours to discredit Coach Kill recruiting abilities and skills is really becoming a joke.
 

If you were capable of reading, I even warned you that there were not 1900 ranked players. For previous years to the 2012 class, there were even more dual threat qb's ranked in previous years of up to 35. Other years, there were as few as 25. But, for all years prior to this ranked group, we have the least in 9 years on Rivals with 4 players ranked in all categories. I am sure it would be similar with Scout, ESPN and others. Does it really matter if the baseline was 1900 or 600? Not really. Because the bottom line is that we still have a small fraction of the ranked recruits we get on an average year over the past 9 years. That is not building up the program. That is a retrograde movement, a retreat, a loss of further prestige for the program. Mason, who we all can agree built up low level recruits into phenomenal players on the offensive line and at running back consistently brought in higher ranked players to surround those he built up. And I think we can all agree Mason was not the best recruiter. So, where does Kill fit into this comparison. He compares unfavorably to Mason in recruiting. He compares unfavorably to Brewster in recruiting. Why praise him so much when he has yet to prove the value in these choices? It is far more speculative to say they will perform well, than my position where I can prove by the numbers they are higher risk players by being unranked.

Ok pick a category and stick with it buddy. Don't use stars for your argument then switch to position rankings when your star argument is getting trashed. So now you are putting all this stock in position ratings yet you named Dinero Moss as a player that won't be productive here yet he is one of the rated recruits that you desire so badly. How does Kill's recruiting compare unfavorably with Mason's??? Mason had a class with only 5 rated players I'm pretty sure this class will at least get one more. I don't think Mason ever landed a recruit as highly sought after as Pirsig or MacDonald in his entire career here. Kill is in year 1 1/2.
 

Look I realize you want elite big10 classes, but it's not going to happen, at least not right now. You should wake up and realize it's not Jerry Kill's fault.
 

You're right, what fans say on a message board will undoubtedly influence our coaching staff. I think we should all complain how conservative Kill and staff's playing calling has been over the years, and demand that they run a triple reverse on the opening play of the USC game.

In before this actually happens :)
 



You're right, what fans say on a message board will undoubtedly influence our coaching staff. I think we should all complain how conservative Kill and staff's playing calling has been over the years, and demand that they run a triple reverse on the opening play of the USC game.

Nice. This kind of reminds me in "Slap Shot" when they're at the bar and the random guy comes up to Reg Dunlop and says "You guys need to get the power play going" and Reg just kind of says "yeah...we're working on it."
 

Honestly, this thread should just be deleted. It serves no purpose and has been completely taken over by B.S. I think that we should sticky a topic for 2012 recruiting where off topic comments and complaining would be removed, where we could completely focus on the recruiting itself. Maybe it's a completely stupid idea, but it makes sense to me.
 




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