2010 Recruiting

[RunGopherRun]

In addition to what you're saying, he's shown a rare willingness to go out and look for walk-ons who aren't local. Even programs that rely heavily on their walk-on programs don't do this very much. Kill has gone out of state to get guys like Dominic Schultz, Luke Trucilla, John McKelvey, and E.J. Sardinha. Trucilla isn't on the roster anymore, but you don't often see guys come across the country to pay to play football, especially guys who look like they can contribute at some point.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[MNVCGUY]

True. Brewster's walk-ons have turned out pretty well. I guess maybe the feeling about hidden gems doesn't just stem from only Minnesota. A fairer statement would be to his willingness to search for those under-recruited players that he think can play. He has signed some guys who were not very highly recruited that have already panned out to be pretty good players. I "feel" like Kill doesn't care about stars on rivals or scout like Brewster did. He likes to personally evaluate kids and decide from there. He has offered kids that aren't high on the national radar; 2 star kids with offers from only "Western Michigan." I think that the ridicule he got for doing this has since desisted because he has proven that he knows what he wants from a player, and he goes out and gets that player, and they perform. He is really good at finding under the radar players that become solid contributors. Look at how many of his guys played last year as true freshmen, guys he brought in at the last minute that had offers from nobody that ended up playing immediately.

Before this turns into a bash Brewster thread I do take issue with the idea that Kill is doing something ground breaking in recruiting. Brew and his staff worked their asses off on the recruiting trail. You can quibble with their ability to identify and develop talent but they were always looking for those under the radar guys. I will agree that Brew put far more emphasis on rankings and stars but it is not like they just looked at rivals and decided to recruit a kid solely on the number of stars behind his name.

The thing we still don't know about Kill and his abilities as a recruiter are if he loads up on those 2* guys because he really feels they are the best fit for the program or if he loads up on those guys because he can't get the higher ranked players on board. It is going to take a few years for us to find out if these under the radar kids can be successful at the Big Ten level week in and week out. With solid systems you might be able to get by on lesser talent to a degree but you still need those difference makers to really compete with the big dogs in the conference.

 

[wait!what?]

Anyone who has done any track in HS knows how awful hand timing is. The dude looks at you 'wadIgit?' and you know you missed the start andor stop and you throw some phoney number at him he says that B***S***. I forgot all about those moments. I was also awful at identifying finish place. '5th? i coulda sworn you were 3rd.'

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Brewster missed him here but Kill missed him at Northern Illinois as well. Northern Illinois recruits the entire uppermidwest and they almost always have a couple of kids from MN. This kid went to a big school and ended up at SDSU. It's very likely that Kill had heard of this kid while at Northern Illinois and also not offered him a scholarship.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

In addition to what you're saying, he's shown a rare willingness to go out and look for walk-ons who aren't local. Even programs that rely heavily on their walk-on programs don't do this very much. Kill has gone out of state to get guys like Dominic Schultz, Luke Trucilla, John McKelvey, and E.J. Sardinha. Trucilla isn't on the roster anymore, but you don't often see guys come across the country to pay to play football, especially guys who look like they can contribute at some point.

I think that's the biggest difference between Kill and Brew's walk-on programs. Brew had a much better walk-on program than most people will give him credit for, 5 of our "starters" this year are former Brew walk-ons (Barker, Mottla, Hill, Rallis, Bak). However, it seems like Kill is more aggresive in searching outside of MN to find some of these kids as well.

 

[Killjoy]

Bob Loblaw

I think that's the biggest difference between Kill and Brew's walk-on programs. Brew had a much better walk-on program than most people will give him credit for, 5 of our "starters" this year are former Brew walk-ons (Barker, Mottla, Hill, Rallis, Bak). However, it seems like Kill is more aggresive in searching outside of MN to find some of these kids as well.

Your analysis certainly could be right but it also could be argued that the reason for the bold statement above is: 1. Poor recruiting of scholarship players; 2. Not recruiting for certain positions; 3. Recruits leaving school; 4. Receiving better coaching by Kill and his staff than they would have received under Brewster, etc. The One thing we do know is that lack of depth is a big factor in this happening.

By the way, Rallis received a scholarship soon after he joined the team and is generally viewed as having been a scholarship player. That discussion has been done before and I am not interested in starting it again.

The real challenge for the walk-on program going forward is going to be the loss of potential walk-ons to schools like North Dakota who often offer scholarships to our potential walk-ons at Minnesota. These kids can't afford not to take these scholarships, given the very high cost of walking on at Minnesota.

 

[Gopherprof]

The real challenge for the walk-on program going forward is going to be the loss of potential walk-ons to schools like North Dakota who often offer scholarships to our potential walk-ons at Minnesota. These kids can't afford not to take these scholarships, given the very high cost of walking on at Minnesota.

That's a challenge for almost every FBS program in the country. Try having a walk-on program at Stanford, for example.

We're in a much better position than most schools because we're the only FBS or FCS program in the state, and it's a public school with reasonable tuition.

 

[Killjoy]

That's a challenge for almost every FBS program in the country. Try having a walk-on program at Stanford, for example.

We're in a much better position than most schools because we're the only FBS or FCS program in the state, and it's a public school with reasonable tuition.

Certainly your bold point is valid. My point still is though, that it is definitely harder now to recruit walk-ons than it was before when the cost difference between walking on here and a scholarship elsewhere was less.

 

[Gopherprof]

I hear ya. I'd have a hard time turning down free college under almost any circumstance.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Your analysis certainly could be right but it also could be argued that the reason for the bold statement above is: 1. Poor recruiting of scholarship players; 2. Not recruiting for certain positions; 3. Recruits leaving school; 4. Receiving better coaching by Kill and his staff than they would have received under Brewster, etc. The One thing we do know is that lack of depth is a big factor in this happening.

By the way, Rallis received a scholarship soon after he joined the team and is generally viewed as having been a scholarship player. That discussion has been done before and I am not interested in starting it again.

The real challenge for the walk-on program going forward is going to be the loss of potential walk-ons to schools like North Dakota who often offer scholarships to our potential walk-ons at Minnesota. These kids can't afford not to take these scholarships, given the very high cost of walking on at Minnesota.

I don't see that any of your points has anything to do with the bolded section. I merely stated that the walk-on program under Brew was much better than a lot of people gave it credit for. I was actually wrong, we had 6 guys who entered the program as walk-ons under Brew who are now "starters", I forgot to mention Botticelli.

As far as the other points, they really don't have anything to do with what I said. Regardless of the reason, if you get multiple year production out of players who entered the program as a walk-on, that is a success. Mottla, Botticelli, Barker, Rallis, Hill and Bak have been very succesful walk-ons, anyway you slice it. I agree, it'd been nice if other people panned out better so we didn't have to count on walk-ons as much, but it doesn't change the fact that these walk-ons have been very succesful. As far as Kill's coaching being the reason for their success, that's fine. However you want to cut it, but it seems like we are living in a world where the players who Brew brought into the program who are having success are a result of Kill and the players who Brew inherited from Mason who were succesful were because of Mason. That's an impossible semantic argument. My entire point was that there a decent handful of players who walked on to the U under Brew who have had success and I think we're all glad that they did.

As for the Rallis question, I've never seen that argument on here. It seems like a silly argument. He went to the U without a scholarship and a scholarship opened up because one of the other 2008 guys couldn't get into school. He was a walk-on player. He could have taken the scholarship offer from Wyoming without having to dance around that issue.

Yeah, that's always the tough thing about the walk-on program. You're asking a kid to pay his own way instead of taking an offer at another institution. It's the same difficulty that exists for every school in the country. That is why it's even more impressive that Kill is able to get kids from Florida, Pennsylvania, and Michigan to walk-on here because those kids aren't even paying instate tuition.

 

[Killjoy]

Bob Loblaw

The main point I was trying to make is that it easier for a walk on to start if the scholarship players recruited: (a.) leave, (b) are not very good, and (c) not recruited for positions of need. You certainly can argue whether that was the case or not at Minnesota but simple logic will tell you above holds true.