2 Years in to the Pitino Era: Is the program where you thought it would be?

2 Years in to the Pitino Era: Is the program where you thought it would be?

  • The program is where I thought it would be

    Votes: 31 43.7%

  • The program is doing better than I thought it would be

    Votes: 2 2.8%

  • The program is doing worse than I thought it would be

    Votes: 38 53.5%
  • Total voters
    71
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El Amin Fan

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We are just over two years into the Pitino Era. If you take everything in to account, wins, loses, recruiting, fan interest, program perception, etc., is the program where you thought it would be after two years?
 

El Amin Fan said:
We are just over two years into the Pitino Era. If you take everything in to account, wins, loses, recruiting, fan interest, program perception, etc., is the program where you thought it would be after two years?
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Kind of difficult to answer. Year 1 exceeded my expectations. Year 2 fell short. Overall I think the program is about where I thought it would be ignoring the results of the last two years - lots of young talent and expecting to see the full transition to Pitino ball in 2015-16.
 

When Orlando was run out of town, I didn't get caught up in the hype. I know how difficult it is to win in the B1G. Now that we are starting year 3, hopefully expectations have been adjusted and we will continue to support our young coach. If we can put together a second top 30 recruiting class this fall, by this time next year, we'll be back in the race.
 

Golden_Sloth said:
Kind of difficult to answer. Year 1 exceeded my expectations. Year 2 fell short. Overall I think the program is about where I thought it would be ignoring the results of the last two years - lots of young talent and expecting to see the full transition to Pitino ball in 2015-16.
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I'm with you. I was pretty much overjoyed with how last year's team competed and finished with such an incomplete roster. The poll question is a snapshot-in-time question, and the crux is still the mystery of what the heck happened with the seniors, save Mo. Their poor performance made this season what it was.

I will say, though, that next year's recruiting class exceeds what I would have expected at this point, so it's a mixed bag for sure.
 

Worse. I am trying to remember how I felt right after the hire, but I'm pretty sure I would have predicted at least one .500 B1G season, at least one NCAA berth, and no missing the NIT in his first two years.

More important (in my opinion) than how I feel now relative to at the hire is the direction it is moving. I feel much much worse than I did after year 1. He needs to turn this around next year, another bottom four finish and no postseason (NCAA or NIT) would be miserable and a major momentum killer.

I've drank the Kool-Aid too many times with hyped players and coaches in MN's pro and college sports teams. I don't get fired up because of a recruiting class or signs of improvement. My evaluations are going to continue to be based on postseason qualifications and performance, BTT performance, position in the B1G standings, overall record (taking into account strength of schedule), and position in the rankings (if any).
 


Until I can see a full season of "his guys", personally, I don't think he can be totally evaluated. I would give him and incomplete at this time. I saw some flashes with some of his recruits of what I expected to see. The next to years, IMO, are the tell tale.
 

After year 1 I didn't just drink the Kool Aid, I guzzled it...year 2 was tough.

I felt like our offensive sets were good but we didn't knock down critical shots. The red flag to me is that Coach P kept trying the pressure D when he was starting 3 of the slower people laterally in the conference leading to unbalanced positioning on defense and easy opportunities for opposing teams. Great coaches modify their play based on their personnel. This did not happen on D this year.

More troubling was the rhetoric being reportedly spoken to the team and visibly spoken to assistants on the bench throughout the year. When your team is losing close games you do not say "you have no heart" all that does is affirm to the people you are supposed to be leading that they have no heart which is the easy way out. The harder thing to do is coach them up to have heart. Now to the treatment of assistants...screaming at Coach Johnson and Coach McHale until they whimper is not leadership. This does three negative things to the team:
1) degrades trust between the assistants and the head coach.
2) reduces the confidence level of the assistants.
3) undermines the position of the assistants with the players

Great leaders do not just communicate well at press conferences and monthly website updates...they communicate well under fire.

I hope Richard grows into the type of leader he has the potential to become while at Minnesota, we will see.

If not, we will not be successful under his tenure. Forget weather, facilities, this is and will always be about leadership. #CoachKill.


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gopherlaney said:
The harder thing to do is coach them up to have heart.
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How do you think Rick, Billy Donovan and Tom Izzo do this? I'm not sure it was much different than what Richard tried. Sometimes you just have to recruit heart.

gopherlaney said:
Now to the treatment of assistants...screaming at Coach Johnson and Coach McHale until they whimper is not leadership.
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Talk about hyperbole. Now Ben Johnson was whimpering in the corner? and when did he yell at McHale?

gopherlaney said:
Great leaders do not just communicate well at press conferences and monthly website updates...they communicate well under fire.
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I'm not sure you, an outsider, can be a good judge of this.

Now I'm not saying the program is where we all would like it to be but you are really grumpy i guess.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Worse. I am trying to remember how I felt right after the hire, but I'm pretty sure I would have predicted at least one .500 B1G season, at least one NCAA berth, and no missing the NIT in his first two years.

More important (in my opinion) than how I feel now relative to at the hire is the direction it is moving. I feel much much worse than I did after year 1. He needs to turn this around next year, another bottom four finish and no postseason (NCAA or NIT) would be miserable and a major momentum killer.

I've drank the Kool-Aid too many times with hyped players and coaches in MN's pro and college sports teams. I don't get fired up because of a recruiting class or signs of improvement. My evaluations are going to continue to be based on postseason qualifications and performance, BTT performance, position in the B1G standings, overall record (taking into account strength of schedule), and position in the rankings (if any).
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I would disagree with next season needs to have a postseason appearance. It would be tough for the fan base without one but if we see improvement throughout the season along with visions of what the team might look like going forward hopefully add another top 30/40 recruiting class I don't think momentum will be killed.
 



Tim1406 said:
How do you think Rick, Billy Donovan and Tom Izzo do this? I'm not sure it was much different than what Richard tried. Sometimes you just have to recruit heart.



Talk about hyperbole. Now Ben Johnson was whimpering in the corner? and when did he yell at McHale?



I'm not sure you, an outsider, can be a good judge of this.

Now I'm not saying the program is where we all would like it to be but you are really grumpy i guess.
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Did you go to many games and sit by there bench? It is easy to watch personal interactions and body language from 30ft away.


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It tis was it is. Yesterday no longer matters. So TODAY, we have some good recruites and i'm optimistic that next year the team will show athleticism and occashional flashes of what can come as the base is built with athletic, smart basketball players - brick by brick. My hope for 2015-2016 is for no more drama and just steady development of the players. It would be great to say at the end of next season that even though we finished 10-11 in the Big10 Mason, Ko-not-a and Jay-joo took a leap during the year and a couple of the freshman looked really good and could develop into studs - we then have 5-6 freshman and sophamores that could help us finish in the top half of the Big10 the following year. Also, recruiting is promising - we have 3 freshman coming in in 2016-2017 in Hurt, Coffee and ? that have really big upside as consensus top 100s. Damn - it actually looks pretty cool if it plays out like that. Tell me who wouldn't be jacked if that is where we are at in 12 months.
 

gopherlaney said:
Did you go to many games and sit by there bench? It is easy to watch personal interactions and body language from 30ft away.


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Sounds good. I just watched them on tv which misses a lot. I just hadn't heard that one here much about Pitino yelling at McHale. also congrats on having such great seats!
 

Tim1406 said:
Sounds good. I just watched them on tv which misses a lot. I just hadn't heard that one here much about Pitino yelling at McHale. also congrats on having such great seats!
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I came off poorly. And they are not my seats I was privileged enough to be a guest many times. Yes, I am grumpy.


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Ive been an assistant and head hockey coach at all sorts of levels youth through high school. Coaches telling at each other isn't that uncommon. I've been yelled atas an assistant and I've yelled my assistants as well. Heck I've yelled at a head coach in the locker room. Its part of the deal can't be thin skinned.When you go through enough battles together these things happen. Just as long as you're on the same page long term. I'm sure pitino put in a great word for McHale lil pitino is intense this is the same guy who got in his dads face in an elite 8game about defensive strategy. I'm fairly certain Hus assistants know what they're getting into.
 

I had hoped for a few more tourney appearances, but I think it is going in the right direction.

The first year was a major disappointment because I lost my MGM Grand bet for them winning the national title (hey, it was 300-1 odds, what the heck).

Ignoring the reasons, but last year was a nightmare in player rotations, depth, etc. They actually over performed in many games with the roster they had.

Next year they will be talented, but young. I hope for a tourney appearance.


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scools12 said:
I would disagree with next season needs to have a postseason appearance. It would be tough for the fan base without one but if we see improvement throughout the season along with visions of what the team might look like going forward hopefully add another top 30/40 recruiting class I don't think momentum will be killed.
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Hard to have improvement next year and miss the NIT. We were what, 1 or maybe 2 wins away from an NIT berth? If we miss the NIT next year, that would mean no progress and maybe even a step backwards.
 

goldy93 said:
Hard to have improvement next year and miss the NIT. We were what, 1 or maybe 2 wins away from an NIT berth? If we miss the NIT next year, that would mean no progress and maybe even a step backwards.
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I was referring to next year's team considering what the make up of the roster will be improving as the season goes on not as an improvement compared to this year's team.
 

goldy93 said:
Hard to have improvement next year and miss the NIT. We were what, 1 or maybe 2 wins away from an NIT berth? If we miss the NIT next year, that would mean no progress and maybe even a step backwards.
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If our young players show they belong, that means a lot more than a trip to the NIT. I'm not going to judge next season on wins and losses.
 



2013: qualified for the NCAA tourney and advanced to the round of 32
2014: failed to qualify for the NCAA tourney, but at least made the NIT
2015: failed to qualify for any post season tournaments

It's pathetic that over half of the people who answered think the program is either where it should be or doing better. I would love it if my clients would be pleased with year over year regression.
 

burton34 said:
2013: qualified for the NCAA tourney and advanced to the round of 32
2014: failed to qualify for the NCAA tourney, but at least made the NIT
2015: failed to qualify for any post season tournaments

It's pathetic that over half of the people who answered think the program is either where it should be or doing better. I would love it if my clients would be pleased with year over year regression.
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Your context is warped. Switching coaches is a new start - new offense, new defense, new players, new assistant coaches, new coach expectations, fill in players until coaches can recruit HS juniors and sophomores. Your logic is sadly illogical, and unfortunately strongly biased by Ws and Ls of which you seem to have limited context.
 

burton34 said:
2013: qualified for the NCAA tourney and advanced to the round of 32
2014: failed to qualify for the NCAA tourney, but at least made the NIT
2015: failed to qualify for any post season tournaments

It's pathetic that over half of the people who answered think the program is either where it should be or doing better. I would love it if my clients would be pleased with year over year regression.
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While Tubby may have deserved the opportunity to fail in 2014. You can't tell me with a straight face that we were going in the right direction. I thought he would get one more year at the time but teagye didn't want to delay the inevitable. IMO
 

burton34 said:
2013: qualified for the NCAA tourney and advanced to the round of 32
2014: failed to qualify for the NCAA tourney, but at least made the NIT
2015: failed to qualify for any post season tournaments

It's pathetic that over half of the people who answered think the program is either where it should be or doing better. I would love it if my clients would be pleased with year over year regression.
Click to expand...

First off - no one answered "The program is where it should be". The answer is "The program is where I thought it would be." I answered this way because at surface level it does indeed look like we are regressing. However, Pitino's first year involved a lot of Tubby's recruits and also a lot of playing above their skill level. Pitino's resume is extremely small and has nothing that would suggest immediate turnaround of a B1G program. Teague brought Pitino in knowing we have to give him 4-5 years minimum to even see if he can be a good head coach. I am pleased so far with Pitino's recruiting (minus a big man which we desperately need) and I am now just waiting to see what we are like when the Gophers are completely Pitino's.
 

burton34 said:
2013: qualified for the NCAA tourney and advanced to the round of 32
2014: failed to qualify for the NCAA tourney, but at least made the NIT
2015: failed to qualify for any post season tournaments

It's pathetic that over half of the people who answered think the program is either where it should be or doing better. I would love it if my clients would be pleased with year over year regression.
Click to expand...

If you want to take a superficial look at it, yes their losses have increased. But you need to look into the details. Your analysis is like being a fan that just looks at the final score and doesn't bother watching the game.

The change in style of play is so dramatic that you can't really judge the results until the new system is in place. All of the people that see the day to day progress in how the players are being developed, the organization and game preparation will comment about the dramatic improvements.

You obviously have already made up your mind on your limited information. Just sit back and watch it develop.


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'13Gopher said:
. Teague brought Pitino in knowing we have to give him 4-5 years minimum to even see if he can be a good head coach.
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I'm not sure what you're basing that on - but if that is accurate, then I wish Teague or Pitino would have come right out and said so. Jerry Kill took over the FB pgm, and was very up-front about how far away they were from contending. If Teague and Pitino, at the hiring press conference, would have said "this is a long-range hire. It will probably take 4 or 5 years at least to bring in the type of Players Rich needs for his system, and also for Rich to become comfortable coaching in a high D1 conference." If they would have said something like that, my entire outlook on the program would be different.

If that is what they believed, and they did not communicate that to the fans, they have to bear the responsibility for not managing the expectations more adroitly.
 

bemidjigopher said:
While Tubby may have deserved the opportunity to fail in 2014. You can't tell me with a straight face that we were going in the right direction. I thought he would get one more year at the time but teagye didn't want to delay the inevitable. IMO
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I agree. I supported Orlando to the bitter end, but Norwood made the right decision. There are so many great coaches and good programs in the B1G I knew our young coach would need some time. Plan A didn't work, I'm guessing Plan B will.
 

burton34 said:
2013: qualified for the NCAA tourney and advanced to the round of 32
2014: failed to qualify for the NCAA tourney, but at least made the NIT
2015: failed to qualify for any post season tournaments

It's pathetic that over half of the people who answered think the program is either where it should be or doing better. I would love it if my clients would be pleased with year over year regression.
Click to expand...

Equally pathetic is someone criticizing others for their answer when they didn't actually read the question.
 


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