0 for 3 on the Big 3

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Gold Vision said:
He didn't play 8 against UNO, he played 2.
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Good catch, though who is UNO? University of New Orleans or University of Nebraska Omaha?:cool02:

Anyway the corrected minutes, starting with most recent.
2, 8, 0, 0, 1, 0.
 

station19 said:
Good catch, though who is UNO? University of New Orleans or University of Nebraska Omaha?:cool02: Anyway the corrected minutes, starting with most recent. 2, 8, 0, 0, 1, 0.
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Haha. Good question. I've always called Omaha UNO since Gophers play them in Hockey.
 

Gold Vision said:
The concern is we have no sure thing impact underclassman in or signed with the team. This team is going to get worse before it gets better unless we hit on guys like Mason and Martin. Wally, Buggs and McNeil are more than a year away from significant contributions.
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I think we bring in/return enough talent next year to be just as good of a team as this year. It's 2015 I'd be more concerned about than next year.
 

DeathClutch said:
I think we bring in/return enough talent next year to be just as good of a team as this year. It's 2015 I'd be more concerned about than next year.
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I completely agree. Although it might be premature to imply that McNeil has had an impact to this point, it is likewise premature to imply we won't won't have any impactful underclassman on the team next year. Players will hopefully develop and I like what they are bringing on board.
 


MadtownGopher said:
I know at least twice he's entered the game before Mav so that is why I said what I said. I hadn't compared their minutes. I think Pitino isn't a huge fan of Mav and is pretty much giving him the minutes he is because he is a senior. I am pretty confident in saying McNeil will surpass Mav in the rotation (officially) going forward.
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I doubt McNeil passes Mav in the rotation unless we implode and don't have a chance to make the postseason. In Big ten play you ride your veterans (when the talent is roughly equivalent) because they have been there before and are more experienced. our top 7 or 8 guys are going to play humongous minutes in every big ten game. Here's to hoping they can hold up.
 

I think we should create another thread to talk about the unwritten rules around creating new threads.
 

golfing18now said:
I completely agree. Although it might be premature to imply that McNeil has had an impact to this point, it is likewise premature to imply we won't won't have any impactful underclassman on the team next year. Players will hopefully develop and I like what they are bringing on board.
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I agree with this. And what would we be saying about the impact players had Martin remained ranked as highly as he was? the rankings are subjective. As these guys see the court more, we'll see what we've got for true impact guys.
 

upnorthkid said:
I agree with this. And what would we be saying about the impact players had Martin remained ranked as highly as he was? the rankings are subjective. As these guys see the court more, we'll see what we've got for true impact guys.
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Of course players will develop. Right now there is just a glaring difference in proven talent after Andre Hollins graduates.

I'm all for optimism, you just have a narrower margin for error when you aren't landing top end talent. Martin looks to be the prize of this class. Hope he continues to flourish.
 



upnorthkid said:
I doubt McNeil passes Mav in the rotation unless we implode and don't have a chance to make the postseason. In Big ten play you ride your veterans (when the talent is roughly equivalent) because they have been there before and are more experienced. our top 7 or 8 guys are going to play humongous minutes in every big ten game. Here's to hoping they can hold up.
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I hope he does pass Mav because that will mean he is better. Mav is a turnover machine which sucks for a supposed pg.
 

Teague's main rational for firing Tubby was that he felt he couldn't land any of the Big 3 as he kept referring to the "future" as why he fired Tubby...and look at here...Pitino couldn't land a one.
 

KyGopherfan said:
Teague's main rational for firing Tubby was that he felt he couldn't land any of the Big 3 as he kept referring to the "future" as why he fired Tubby...and look at here...Pitino couldn't land a one.
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BS.
 

KyGopherfan said:
Teague's main rational for firing Tubby was that he felt he couldn't land any of the Big 3 as he kept referring to the "future" as why he fired Tubby...and look at here...Pitino couldn't land a one.
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A whole lot of WTF in that post. You know the inner workings of Teague's mind. You conflate the "future" as months. While Tubby had years to recruit these three, Pitino had months. I don't fault Pitino at all.
 



KyGopherfan said:
Teague's main rational for firing Tubby was that he felt he couldn't land any of the Big 3 as he kept referring to the "future" as why he fired Tubby...and look at here...Pitino couldn't land a one.
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No chance. The program had no momentum and the season ticket base/boosters were unhappy with the direction under Tubby.

The program is bigger than any one recruit. We need to stop pretending the sky will fall because Minnesota kids don't all hop on board.
 

0-3 is a big blow for the program. We badly needed to add impact talent to the roster in the 2014 class (actually we've needed to land impact talent in 2012 and 2013 to replace Mbakwe, Williams, etc) and we had 3 kids in our backyard that fit the bill. The biggest takeaways to me on the issue are as follows:

The University brought in Tubby Smith to much mare fanfare, and after six years he left the program in a state where we were unable to land any of the top in state talent and only came close with one of the three. Contrary to popular belief, Minnesota has historically done a pretty good job of landing the elite in state kids.

Our facilities suck and the culture around big time sports sucks at Minnesota. There's an aversion to spending the big $$$ on amenities and perks for athletes because it seems seedy to many. The culture has to change if we want a big time program. I hope all the kids leaving this year is a wake up call, but even if it is, it's disappointing that it would take losing out on a once a decade type class for real change to occur.

The early returns on Pitino as a recruiter are a bit underwhelming. Depending on how much blame you give Coach Pitino for failing to land any of the big 3, that might be an understatement. Lack of recruiting success was a reason why we made a coaching change and I do believe that Teague and Ellis thought Pitino would make an impact on the recruiting trail immediately. On the positive side, I think the early returns on the coaching side have been surprisingly positive.

It's going to be extremely important for this staff to garner some momentum either on the recruiting trail or in the standing in the very near future. I don't like the chances with Henry Ellenson, but Alex I and Jarvis Johnson become even more important gets for this staff to establish kids staying home.
 

EG#9 said:
0-3 is a big blow for the program. We badly needed to add impact talent to the roster in the 2014 class (actually we've needed to land impact talent in 2012 and 2013 to replace Mbakwe, Williams, etc) and we had 3 kids in our backyard that fit the bill. The biggest takeaways to me on the issue are as follows:

The University brought in Tubby Smith to much mare fanfare, and after six years he left the program in a state where we were unable to land any of the top in state talent and only came close with one of the three. Contrary to popular belief, Minnesota has historically done a pretty good job of landing the elite in state kids.

Our facilities suck and the culture around big time sports sucks at Minnesota. There's an aversion to spending the big $$$ on amenities and perks for athletes because it seems seedy to many. The culture has to change if we want a big time program. I hope all the kids leaving this year is a wake up call, but even if it is, it's disappointing that it would take losing out on a once a decade type class for real change to occur.

The early returns on Pitino as a recruiter are a bit underwhelming. Depending on how much blame you give Coach Pitino for failing to land any of the big 3, that might be an understatement. Lack of recruiting success was a reason why we made a coaching change and I do believe that Teague and Ellis thought Pitino would make an impact on the recruiting trail immediately. On the positive side, I think the early returns on the coaching side have been surprisingly positive.

It's going to be extremely important for this staff to garner some momentum either on the recruiting trail or in the standing in the very near future. I don't like the chances with Henry Ellenson, but Alex I and Jarvis Johnson become even more important gets for this staff to establish kids staying home.
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How can you even judge what type of recruiter he is yet? Actually, you can judge his 2013 class and it has been great so far. You can look at the 2014 class and see it as unsexy because it contains no 4 or 5 star recruits, but the recruiting sites are wrong all the time. Martin is beasting so far this season
and Ryan James, who is a High School Hoops guru, says we got a steal in Mason. Not to mention Morris, who is averaging double figures on one of the best JUCO programs in the nation. Yes it would have been nice to land one of the big three, but I like the talent he brought in this year and he is bringing in next year.
 

Yeah, you don't need to have a team of top-50 recruits to have a great college basketball team, but the Big 3 all going elsewhere is a real missed opportunity for Minnesota. Could've made a statement in recruiting and had a class that could lead the Gophers to a B1G championship and deep tourney run but missed it. Now it's going to take a longer time to build to that level in recruiting - it's not that it can't be done, but it just takes a lot more time. I know Beilein at Michigan did a great job in getting that program back on track, but it took him five years before he had a team that could win the B1G.
 

This board is just full of good news tonight. Ugh.
 

OSUfan said:
Yeah, you don't need to have a team of top-50 recruits to have a great college basketball team, but the Big 3 all going elsewhere is a real missed opportunity for Minnesota. Could've made a statement in recruiting and had a class that could lead the Gophers to a B1G championship and deep tourney run but missed it. Now it's going to take a longer time to build to that level in recruiting - it's not that it can't be done, but it just takes a lot more time. I know Beilein at Michigan did a great job in getting that program back on track, but it took him five years before he had a team that could win the B1G.
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Meh, we have just as good of a chance at getting some top talent in the 2015. Minnesota again has some great players in state and we are recruiting a bunch of 4 and 5 players. If we are able to lock down a couple in this class, which seems possible with the extra lead time, it would be about the same as getting some of the 2014 kids. It doesn't take as long to build a college basketball program as it does a college football program.
 


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Tubby would've at least made Rashad Vaughn's final 5. Going .000 on highest-rated collective of 3 MN players in history is embarrassment.</p>— Patrick Reusse (@1500ESPN_Reusse) <a href="https://twitter.com/1500ESPN_Reusse/statuses/416891253276430336">December 28, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Go4 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Tubby would've at least made Rashad Vaughn's final 5. Going .000 on highest-rated collective of 3 MN players in history is embarrassment.</p>— Patrick Reusse (@1500ESPN_Reusse) <a href="https://twitter.com/1500ESPN_Reusse/statuses/416891253276430336">December 28, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Tubby's still coaching, why didn't Texas Tech make his final five? Also, what the ****'s the point if he wasn't going to come here any ways. Getting into a top 5 really doesn't help your program much if the player ultimately goes elsewhere.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Tubby's still coaching, why didn't Texas Tech make his final five? Also, what the ****'s the point if he wasn't going to come here any ways. Getting into a top 5 really doesn't help your program much if the player ultimately goes elsewhere.
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To be fair, there are a ton of people that were praising Pitino for just that earlier this year on this board.
 

Gold Vision said:
To be fair, there are a ton of people that were praising Pitino for just that earlier this year on this board.
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Well it was a little more impressive when the kids were from NYC/east coast. But it still doesn't help the program all that much unless you close.
 

No loyalty towards the home state program. I'm not trying to pin it on any single player.....but it's very odd nontheless.
 

Teague had a candidate for coach who could have landed 1, maybe more of the Big 3 in Saunders, but he chose not to look at the short term. Saunders may have brought in more donor money in the short term, may have gotten all 3 of the Big 3 to put UMn in their Top 5 lists, and he may have gotten 1, 2 or all 3 of them. But if 2 of them bolted after their freshman seasons, and then Teague is stuck with a coach he doesn't feel he can control, well, we know what he did. He went with a younger up and coming coach, he took a chance on someone he thought had the right pedigree, who he could trust and maybe control for at least the first couple of years, and if he loses control, it would only be because he turned the program into a natl title contender and then why would he care?!

I believe he knew it would be tough for him to get any of the Big 3, and he probably trusted that he'd get the right players for his system. If Tyus and Vaughn are going to be 1 and doners, well I'm not all that disappointed in losing out on them. Losing out on Travis really sucks, but hey, that's life. How many people thought we'd be 10-2 with a signature win under our belts right now? Who thought at the end of last season that we'd have Dickie V saying we are a team to be watched? SU is ranked #2 in the nation right now and it seems to me that we stuck right with them and had a chance to win that game. Granted we didn't, and then we lost to Arkansas, but no matter, we are having a better season this year than anyone imagined we would at the end of last season.

And I see that 2 of our highest scorers in the last game were players who were NOT on our team last year. They are players that were brought into the program by our new coach. I'd say they are recruiting successes.


I did not know what to think of Teague's decision to hire this relatively unknown as our new bb coach, but I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, like I did with Kill, and so far I'm liking the direction Kill has the fb program moving in, and so far I'm ok with what our new bb coach has done so far.

As for the Big 3, I figured they were gone the second I heard Teague went with someone other than Saunders. I am not saying that I know Saunders could have gotten any of them, but he had that NBA thing going that might have gotten Vaughn and Tyus to bite, and I think Travis would have stayed home had the other 2. But I was fairly confident that when Teague went with someone relatively unknown, that he was thinking about the long term and not the short term.


And long term, we are better off without 1 and doners. Travis is/was the only true loss in that class. Getting the Big 3, or even one of them, may have gotten us the headlines, and may have been beneficial in regards to future recruiting, it couldn't have hurt, but for long term sustained success, what this programs needs is something akin to Kill's brick by brick philosophy, set a strong foundation and build upon it, and get the program to the point were we can reload instead of needing to rebuild.


I see Pitino going after some JUCO talent until we/he can have some success in March. For the long term sustained success we first need to have a winning season. Bringing in top recruits is nice, but as we found out with the Big 3 that Munson brought in, that lasted 2.5, 2 and 1 seasons was it? They didn't turn us into a winning team. What long term sustained success did we gain from bringing in those guys?! All that did was pad our NBA alum stats a little bit.


When we have a season where we go to a Sweet 16 or Elite 8, kind of like in 89 and 90, that will help our recruiting. Those seasons got us the attention we needed to get us the recruits that got us back to the NCAA tourney and that got us an NIT Title, which in turn helped us get the recruits that got us to the Final Four. Now had those recruits been better students, or had our coach not been such a lazy lying cheating bastard, who knows what kind of success we could have had over the last 15 years?! We could be bigger than Syracuse is right now?! But we aren't. We are instead a program at the ground floor basically. We are UConn 25 years ago? Hopefully Pitino is our Calhoun? Sort of, well, hopefully you know what I mean.


But we need to have a breakout season, we need to get to the Sweet 16 or beyond, and then build from there. That will help our recruiting more than anything. And I don't think we need to worry about losing out on Top 50 instate recruits. We are going to lose most or all of those until we can show them that we can be a championship team. What we need to do is concentrate on keeping all of the instate players ranked from 101-200 that fit into our system and get other players from wherever we can get them similarly ranked that fit into our system, that will help us win in the short and/or long term. JUCOs is not a bad way to go. Bobby Jackson was a JUCO. Transfers are not bad, whatever it takes to get us that signature season that will introduce our program to the youth of America.
 

PartoPitinosPosse said:
Teague had a candidate for coach who could have landed 1, maybe more of the Big 3 in Saunders, but he chose not to look at the short term. Saunders may have brought in more donor money in the short term, may have gotten all 3 of the Big 3 to put UMn in their Top 5 lists, and he may have gotten 1, 2 or all 3 of them. But if 2 of them bolted after their freshman seasons, and then Teague is stuck with a coach he doesn't feel he can control, well, we know what he did. He went with a younger up and coming coach, he took a chance on someone he thought had the right pedigree, who he could trust and maybe control for at least the first couple of years, and if he loses control, it would only be because he turned the program into a natl title contender and then why would he care?!
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You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.
 

PartoPitinosPosse said:
We are instead a program at the ground floor basically. We are UConn 25 years ago?
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Just going to respond to this part of your post. Not even close to being on the ground floor. Also, UConn had seasons of 12, 13, 13, 12 wins when Calhoun took over.
 

station19 said:
I hope he does pass Mav because that will mean he is better. Mav is a turnover machine which sucks for a supposed pg.
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I agree in what you're saying, but I don't see him "passing" Mav because neither one of them will see large minutes, thus you feel more comfortable giving those limited minutes to a senior who has seen and experienced things a little more is all I'm saying.
 

Go4 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Tubby would've at least made Rashad Vaughn's final 5. Going .000 on highest-rated collective of 3 MN players in history is embarrassment.</p>— Patrick Reusse (@1500ESPN_Reusse) <a href="https://twitter.com/1500ESPN_Reusse/statuses/416891253276430336">December 28, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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No way, not after he moved out west. Pat's just mad about football and throwing crap out there.
 

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