“Best two should play for the title” is stupid

Donate To GopherHole
I agree wholeheartedly. Championship games where the top 2 play is forced and redundant.

Either keep a division or drop the title game.

I would allow it only in situations where you had an unbalanced schedule and wanted to settle a tie. Like a game 163 in MLB. And in 3+ way ties, you can figure out a tiebreaker to get the top 2.
 

TCU is in a weak and dying conference. They will not be in the final four and their fans and very rich donors will howl.
They do have a premier dance team though.
The BIG is NOT going to have divisions once the two CA teams come in the the BCS championship goes to 12 teams.
It is very likely that three or four BIG and SEC teams will be in the final twelve.
So every conference game will have meaning and each team will play nine conference games.
 

mnsportsgeek said:
Either keep a division or drop the title game.
Click to expand...
Well frankly, the conference championship games themselves are pointless if you don't have divisions.

The SEC made them up out of thin air, when they concocted the "12 members in two divisions of 6, division winners play an extra game" format back in 1991.


It just so happens that they make for good TV (usually). So they aren't going anywhere.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Well frankly, the conference championship games themselves are pointless if you don't have divisions.

The SEC made them up out of thin air, when they concocted the "12 members in two divisions of 6, division winners play an extra game" format back in 1991.


It just so happens that they make for good TV (usually). So they aren't going anywhere.
Click to expand...
And likely will determine byes when the Playoff field expands.
 

AZGopher8 said:
Agreed. I never understood the benefit to the conference of this model...besides the obvious...$$.
Click to expand...
It absolutely is "Money."

They absolutely do not want to take the risk of a 7-5 team upsetting an 11-1 (and getting an auto berth in the playoff as a result).
 



mnsportsgeek said:
Is that not what I said?
Click to expand...
Yes, it was one of your options :)


I just think it's interesting: the SEC cooked the whole thing up in order to take on Arkansas and South Carolina as new members in 1991, back when TV money wasn't much of a thing and no one had ever heard of "divisions" in college football. They just did it as a workaround to the fact that you'd never have anything near a full round-robin with 12.

So you chop the group in half, do round-robins within each half, and make the half winners play each other. Got the NCAA to approve an "extra" game at the end for just those two teams.

Reasonable enough.


But then later TV was like "well, these things are pretty valuable". So now you don't even need divisions to have them ... so they're kind of stupid and pointless and potentially risk upsetting your top team, but now they're never going away.
 

Some guy said:
You are correct
Especially since they are likely to build a schedule so dumb that there will be 4-5 teams tied with no natural tiebreakers

So they may as well just take the two biggest helmet schools and match them up the maximize dollars
Click to expand...
Another aspect which I doubt we will ever know is if and how much more TV/Streaming partners bid on a Top 2 Division-less format vs Status Quo East/West or even realignment.

If the primary goal is to ensure the best team gets the BCS Bid/Bye as well as the best chance for a competitive Title game, I tend to think Top 2 is the way to go. Saying that, I am not sure it outweighs other potential negative impacts.

For example this year there are still 7 Big 10 teams in contention to make it to Indy with 2 weeks left in the regular season. Ohio St and Michigan in the East, as well as Iowa, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Including the Badgers is kind, as they need the most help. Half of the conference is still playing meaningful football. At least 4 will still be in it Thanksgiving weekend, maybe more.

If it were Top 2 with the schedule being the same, it would already be decided. Ohio St vs Michigan. No other games would matter. Zero.

Even the OSU/Mich game would be moot. If both lost this weekend, the best Penn St could do is tie, and would lose head-to-head tiebreakers with either. All the West teams already have 3 losses. So they could not be in the Top 2.

So, does shifting the focus on the Big 10 Championship outweigh making these last 2 weeks meaningless? I have to think the execs at FOX, NBC and CBS have thought about it, but maybe not.

It's also possible in a bigger Big 10, this year's situation becomes less likely. There would be a solid chance that a 1 loss USC team could be lurking for a bid meaning the loser of OSU/Mich would lose out on a Big 10 Championship berth.

Maybe this whole 12 Team BCS Playoff will work out, but I am quite skeptical about the downstream ramifications. Like it or not, through the looking glass the sport shall go.
 

Ope3 said:
Another aspect which I doubt we will ever know is if and how much more TV/Streaming partners bid on a Top 2 Division-less format vs Status Quo East/West or even realignment.

If the primary goal is to ensure the best team gets the BCS Bid/Bye as well as the best chance for a competitive Title game, I tend to think Top 2 is the way to go. Saying that, I am not sure it outweighs other potential negative impacts.

For example this year there are still 7 Big 10 teams in contention to make it to Indy with 2 weeks left in the regular season. Ohio St and Michigan in the East, as well as Iowa, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Including the Badgers is kind, as they need the most help. Half of the conference is still playing meaningful football. At least 4 will still be in it Thanksgiving weekend, maybe more.

If it were Top 2 with the schedule being the same, it would already be decided. Ohio St vs Michigan. No other games would matter. Zero.

Even the OSU/Mich game would be moot. If both lost this weekend, the best Penn St could do is tie, and would lose head-to-head tiebreakers with either. All the West teams already have 3 losses. So they could not be in the Top 2.

So, does shifting the focus on the Big 10 Championship outweigh making these last 2 weeks meaningless? I have to think the execs at FOX, NBC and CBS have thought about it, but maybe not.

It's also possible in a bigger Big 10, this year's situation becomes less likely. There would be a solid chance that a 1 loss USC team could be lurking for a bid meaning the loser of OSU/Mich would lose out on a Big 10 Championship berth.

Maybe this whole 12 Team BCS Playoff will work out, but I am quite skeptical about the downstream ramifications. Like it or not, through the looking glass the sport shall go.
Click to expand...
Correct. There is a reason why not everyone has gone to it
 



Gophers_4life said:
Well frankly, the conference championship games themselves are pointless if you don't have divisions.

The SEC made them up out of thin air, when they concocted the "12 members in two divisions of 6, division winners play an extra game" format back in 1991.


It just so happens that they make for good TV (usually). So they aren't going anywhere.
Click to expand...
2014 TCU likely makes the playoff with a championship game.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
How do we know? By non-conference P5 games in September?
Click to expand...
By non-conference P5 games in September one would be able to reckon that TCU > Alabama at the very least.
 

Part of the issue in the B1G is that the traditional 2 best teams, right now play the last week of the season and are Rivals. It they go to two best teams, they can't have that game the last week of the season anymore.
 



noamfromm said:
2014 TCU likely makes the playoff with a championship game.
Click to expand...
Disagree.

Committee F'ed the rankings big time -- it was their first year.


Florida State should've never moved off #3 from week 11 onward, when they were #3. They never lost from that point onward -- you don't move teams down if they don't lose. That has been the standard MO, they obviously learned their lesson.

When Miss St lost their second, FSU should've been #3, Ohio St should've been #4, and TCU #5, and that should've also stayed what it was then for the last rankings.

Basically, it was preposterous for TCU to jump up to #3, in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_rankings#CFP_Rankings
 

Gophers_4life said:
Disagree.

Committee F'ed the rankings big time -- it was their first year.


Florida State should've never moved off #3 from week 11 onward, when they were #3. They never lost from that point onward -- you don't move teams down if they don't lose. That has been the standard MO, they obviously learned their lesson.

When Miss St lost their second, FSU should've been #3, Ohio St should've been #4, and TCU #5, and that should've also stayed what it was then for the last rankings.

Basically, it was preposterous for TCU to jump up to #3, in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_rankings#CFP_Rankings
Click to expand...
Regardless of your assertion that they shouldn't have been 4th, TCU was 4th and most likely would have been had they won the rematch against Baylor.
 

They could just keep the division format and rotate the teams, keeping certain rivalry games in place.
Take the last season's standings, and put the top team in division A, next two in B, fourth team in A, fifth in B, etc.

Get divisions formed. Schedule the rivalry games, then create all of the other divisional games. Then for the last game or two for cross overs, take the two teams who haven't played each other for the longest and match them up, then take the next longest pair, and match them up, etc.

Do a 4 team playoff of top team from each division and the two wild cards.


We have 12 year old kids playing club sports traveling from Minnesota to AZ and FL, it's not that hard to fly a plane across the upper midwest and out to California.
 

noamfromm said:
2014 TCU likely makes the playoff with a championship game.
Click to expand...
2014 TCU loses to Baylor again with a championship game
And I disagree. With both what you said and what I responded with.
 

Some guy said:
2014 TCU loses to Baylor again with a championship game
And I disagree. With both what you said and what I responded with.
Click to expand...
you're probably right, the first 58-61 loss to Baylor was quite a whitewashing.
 


disco said:
Not if the Big 12 ends up grabbing Colorado, Utah and the two Arizona Schools.
Click to expand...
Of the four, Utah is the only school with a presently viable football program.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Part of the issue in the B1G is that the traditional 2 best teams, right now play the last week of the season and are Rivals. It they go to two best teams, they can't have that game the last week of the season anymore.
Click to expand...
I kinda hope rivalry week moves to October tbh. I'm sick of playing Wisconsin in 30 degrees every year.
 

noamfromm said:
Regardless of your assertion that they shouldn't have been 4th, TCU was 4th and most likely would have been had they won the rematch against Baylor.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. TCU did win a game on the CCG weekend. And they went from #3 to #6. Baylor went from #6 to #5.

Basically, it was the worst CFP committee of all time, wayyyyy too activist in their rankings. They fixed that now.


Anyway, your point is fine. But it doesn't disprove the reasoning I gave that CCG's are pointless when there aren't divisions. They only exist because of divisions, in the first place. And now they'll go on existing as an artifact of that conferences used to be required to have divisions to have a CCG, but it's the game itself that is valuable for TV.
 

disco said:
Not if the Big 12 ends up grabbing Colorado, Utah and the two Arizona Schools.
Click to expand...
Won't happen, even if UCLA ends up leaving too (not saying that's not likely, it's just not out of the woods yet).

They (those four schools) already kicked the tires on that move this summer, and the TV money wasn't there. They'll get similar TV money in the PAC-10 remainder conf, as they would get in the Big 18. So, no need to make the move then.


Now, if later on Oregon, Washington, and Bay Area schools also leave, then yes I can see it.
 

mnsportsgeek said:
I kinda hope rivalry week moves to October tbh. I'm sick of playing Wisconsin in 30 degrees every year.
Click to expand...
They need to keep the rest of the rivalry games toward the end if not the end of the season. For those out of the Top 2 contention, it would be the only thing to maintain fan interest.

Take Indiana/Purdue. With the Hoosiers out of Bowl contention, the Old Oaken Bucket is their Bowl.

OSU/Michigan, I say move it to Prime Time in early October or 1st week of November (sweeps). Ratings...huge.
 


Ope3 said:
They need to keep the rest of the rivalry games toward the end if not the end of the season. For those out of the Top 2 contention, it would be the only thing to maintain fan interest.

Take Indiana/Purdue. With the Hoosiers out of Bowl contention, the Old Oaken Bucket is their Bowl.

OSU/Michigan, I say move it to Prime Time in early October or 1st week of November (sweeps). Ratings...huge.
Click to expand...
It's beyond obvious this needs to be done, especially if it will start being a rematch the very next week.
 

noamfromm said:
you're probably right, the first 58-61 loss to Baylor was quite a whitewashing.
Click to expand...
TCu beats Baylor in a rematch I think.
But I could be wrong

I also think OSU goes over TCU anyways. But I could be wrong
 


Some guy said:
If you’re going to do something stupid make sure you do the tiebreakers correctly

Whoops


Click to expand...
Agree that is a wacky scenario.

Don't necessarily agree that UCLA should be in the CCG. They just lost, at home, to Arizona.

Don't lose that game.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom