’18 Athletic Department Study Showed Serious Racial Bias in Iowa Football

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Pompous Elitist said:
The coaches perspective (from the report) is there is low “buy-in” from some student athletes.

Some of the Iowa players (and posters on GH) perspective is the coaches and The Iowa Way are racist.

Which is it? Which makes more sense to you? Perhaps both are true. I’ve not seen convincing evidence Ferentz or his irritating son are anything more than insensitive at worst, and inevitably there are going to be frictions between some players and staff. I’d guess similar allegations and issues could be made vs any coach, including our own if we dig far enough. Could that ever become a problem, with the MN culture?
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You’ve made your “position” clear: you’ll hold any possible doubts as meeting the bar to dismiss the case, in absence of a smoking gun in Ferentz’s closet.

Would be interesting if you could actually bring yourself to admit: what would it take, for you to believe the players on this? Secret audio recording?
 

You’re making pretty significant and damaging claims vs the Iowa staff. Is it that outrageous to ask for more evidence than some nebulous ideas about potential unequal disciplinary measures, or not liking dress and behavioral codes? I apply this policy equally and some day it might even benefit someone like yourself, or those players should they ever be accused of something.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Those words were statements or quotes from some of the students, not the coaches. The full report can be read here if you’re interested:


Is the student allegation of coaches requiring “doing things right all the time, both academically and socially” inherently racist?
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I read the report. Like I said previously - at a minimum, Iowa has a serious team culture problem, if not overt racism. There is definitely evidence that hints at least at some forms of racism, but without knowing more about each situation in context it's hard to say for sure. It certainly seems like they have a problem - players transferring, low graduation rates, unhappy players, and the school admitting they have a problem.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
You’re making pretty significant and damaging claims vs the Iowa staff. Is it that outrageous to ask for more evidence than some nebulous ideas about potential unequal disciplinary measures, or not liking dress and behavioral codes? I apply this policy equally and some day it might even benefit someone like yourself, or those players should they ever be accused of something.
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Again, you’re speaking exactly like a defense attorney hired by the Ferentz family would speak. Maybe you are.

But for a regular person, looking from the outside in, given the number of accusers and the similar spirit and type of their allegations, what you're showing on here is an absurd position to take as the default.

Which again leads me to believe you’re just doing it for show, and for your own entertainment, rather than as an honest belief or expression.
 


Word said:
I read the report. Like I said previously - at a minimum, Iowa has a serious team culture problem, if not overt racism. There is definitely evidence that hints at least at some forms of racism, but without knowing more about each situation in context it's hard to say for sure. It certainly seems like they have a problem - players transferring, low graduation rates, unhappy players, and the school admitting they have a problem.
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What are you seeing that says that? Is it possible some of the players simply don’t want to buy into the culture? Find me a company or organization anywhere that doesn’t struggle with these issues to some extent.

IMO that’s quite a jump to make. Iowa City is probably not for everyone culturally or socially, and Ferentz clearly has a rigid program that has worked to some extent in terms of overachieving their talent rankings. There are probably many people that just aren’t going to like the oppressive structure. Ferentz’s brand of character and team building isn’t going to fly for some people. That doesn’t mean it is racist. He probably doesn’t connect with some players. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s overtly racist.

Everyone reading this can certainly do better in terms of trying to understand each other better (including me).
 

MplsGopher said:
Again, you’re speaking exactly like a defense attorney hired by the Ferentz family would speak. Maybe you are.

But for a regular person, looking from the outside in, given the number of accusers and the similar spirit and type of their allegations, what you're showing on here is an absurd position to take as the default.

Which again leads me to believe you’re just doing it for show, and for your own entertainment, rather than as an honest belief or expression.
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I’ve posted the report, and we have seen the many ambiguously worded tweets. Show me some incidents with “teeth” that support your position.
 

This 2018 report by USC professor Shaun Harper is illuminating on the discrepancies in enrollment and graduation of athletes for virtually every power 5 school. Northwestern is the only school that has anything close to equality in graduation rate. Cal is an interesting case.

 

Pompous Elitist said:
I’ve posted the report, and we have seen the many ambiguously worded tweets. Show me some incidents with “teeth” that support your position.
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It's been posted already multiples times. You're lazy and you're just pretending that they don't.

Yes, we know, your entertainment is derived from trying to play defense attorney, and "defend" the indefensible.
 






MplsGopher said:
It's been posted already multiples times. You're lazy and you're just pretending that they don't.

Yes, we know, your entertainment is derived from trying to play defense attorney, and "defend" the indefensible.
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I‘ve seen the allegations, and there are no specific incidents regarding Kirk. I’ve asked several times. I’ve posted links to all the tweets. I’ve posted the 2019 report. The opposite of lazy. I’ve looked at the source material, not breathless commentary from Rob Howe who actually is a lazy writer..
 




Pompous Elitist said:
I‘ve seen the allegations, and there are no specific incidents regarding Kirk. I’ve asked several times. I’ve posted links to all the tweets. I’ve posted the 2019 report. The opposite of lazy. I’ve looked at the source material, not breathless commentary from Rob Howe who actually is a lazy writer..
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You posted a report having nothing to do with allegations.

The buck stops with the elder Ferentz.
 





Why is it that on a message board when two people disagree , it goes to name calling. Once it gets there it means that there is no longer a contribution to the conversation. I used to be called names so i simply blocked them. First i offered to have them go scouting with a group of coaches and scouts so they could see who i was and they could also see if they could hold their own in a basketball conversation. Only response was more insults so now i can not see what they post and the rest of the board is spared the waste of time and thought.
 

builtbadgers said:
Why is it that on a message board when two people disagree , it goes to name calling. Once it gets there it means that there is no longer a contribution to the conversation. I used to be called names so i simply blocked them. First i offered to have them go scouting with a group of coaches and scouts so they could see who i was and they could also see if they could hold their own in a basketball conversation. Only response was more insults so now i can not see what they post and the rest of the board is spared the waste of time and thought.
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So's your old man!
 


WriterGoph said:
Very glad to see this is only gaining more steam on a national level. Front page of ESPN's CFB page now

www.espn.com

Questioning The Iowa Way: Black players speak out on program's racial inequities

Last month, dozens of current and former Iowa football players spoke up about culture problems in the program, primarily centered on the treatment of Black athletes.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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Yeah, saw that this morning. Conforming to culture is one thing, inconsistent punishments between white & black players is something entirely different.
 

The thing that really bothers me about this thread - and I think this is a symbolic microcosm of our issues in America - is that we have some posters saying "We don't have any facts. We just have the black players' stories."

This is pretty much what happened when the #MeToo movement started. This is also what has gone on for decades in relation to police brutality and black people. How many were killed or badly injured and were swept under the rug because we didn't have video easily available and shareable? Think about that. It took video evidence of these crimes for the bulk of this country to listen.

Sadly, this is how it seems to play out in America when a previously underrepresented - or oppressed - group starts to finally speak up. Our default is to say "Well, let's hear the explanation. I'm sure he/she did something that justified the response."

Really despicable that this was the response to women, to gay people, to minorities for far too many years in this country. I hope the next generation can do better than us and our parents and our grandparents.
 

Word said:
Are you implying that there's a racist culture in Gopher football?
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I didn’t say that. However, if we‘re using graduation rate as a measuring stick of potential racism we are far behind Northwestern as of 2018. There appears to be a wide spectrum of graduation rates across the power 5. Ohio State for example was one percentage point ahead of Iowa. There is or was a huge differential at MN although not as enormous as Iowa. Why?
 

The author doesn’t dive into or differentiate between a black football player at Ohio St who doesn’t graduate because he is drafted by the NFL, and a black player at Iowa who doesn’t graduate because he leaves the program due to racist culture.
 

WriterGoph said:
The thing that really bothers me about this thread - and I think this is a symbolic microcosm of our issues in America - is that we have some posters saying "We don't have any facts. We just have the black players' stories."

This is pretty much what happened when the #MeToo movement started. This is also what has gone on for decades in relation to police brutality and black people. How many were killed or badly injured and were swept under the rug because we didn't have video easily available and shareable? Think about that. It took video evidence of these crimes for the bulk of this country to listen.

Sadly, this is how it seems to play out in America when a previously underrepresented - or oppressed - group starts to finally speak up. Our default is to say "Well, let's hear the explanation. I'm sure he/she did something that justified the response."

Really despicable that this was the response to women, to gay people, to minorities for far too many years in this country. I hope the next generation can do better than us and our parents and our grandparents.
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Gaslighting is the tool of choice for the conservative tribe that is losing the culture war to the progressive tribe.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
I didn’t say that. However, if we‘re using graduation rate as a measuring stick of potential racism we are far behind Northwestern as of 2018. There appears to be a wide spectrum of graduation rates across the power 5. Ohio State for example was one percentage point ahead of Iowa. There is or was a huge differential at MN although not as enormous as Iowa. Why?
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I would certainly have more faith in the culture at MN football fixing graduation rate gaps than the one at Iowa.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I didn’t say that. However, if we‘re using graduation rate as a measuring stick of potential racism we are far behind Northwestern as of 2018. There appears to be a wide spectrum of graduation rates across the power 5. Ohio State for example was one percentage point ahead of Iowa. There is or was a huge differential at MN although not as enormous as Iowa. Why?
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Our graduation disparity is definitely something The U should definitely look into! Do you know if these graduation rates collected for just student athletes or across the whole student body?
 

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