Reusse: Unlike the Gophers’ coaching situation, the solution for Williams Arena is simple: Blow up The Barn

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Ope3 said:
There have been substantial changes in the last 5 years with regards to College Basketball and attendance of live events in general that go well beyond the Gophers on court success.

- Cost
- NIL
- Portal
- Bigger better TVs
- Conference Realignment/Expansion

Those are big ones. Revenue sharing is looming.

I just don't honestly see the demand for anything really beyond the 10k range or 12k tops.

What exactly is the NCAA Basketball landscape going to look like in 5 to 10 years? Will the NCAA even be around? Will it be replaced by something else or greatly modified?
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That’s pretty shortsighted. Yes, there have been changes and we have been largely awful in that time. A total over reaction to go that small
 



Tucker32 said:
That’s pretty shortsighted. Yes, there have been changes and we have been largely awful in that time. A total over reaction to go that small
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Fewer games against the traditional regional Big 10 rivals is going to have a lasting impact. Constant roster turnover with less player familiarity (both for the Gophers and opponents) also is a turnoff. Given the cost of attending in person with an HD TV alternative, my opinion is that even if the on court results improve I don't foresee a market to shell out for nosebleed seats. That's my opinion.

It's possible that creating scarcity may increase demand.
 

Ope3 said:
There have been substantial changes in the last 5 years with regards to College Basketball and attendance of live events in general that go well beyond the Gophers on court success.

- Cost
- NIL
- Portal
- Bigger better TVs
- Conference Realignment/Expansion

Those are big ones. Revenue sharing is looming.

I just don't honestly see the demand for anything really beyond the 10k range or 12k tops.

What exactly is the NCAA Basketball landscape going to look like in 5 to 10 years? Will the NCAA even be around? Will it be replaced by something else or greatly modified?
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At best there would be 5-6 games/year you could draw more than 10K (week-end conference home games + Wisconsin/Iowa if during the week.). The other 12 would not. The extra cost is not really justified. Plus a couple of those could be moved to the Wolves arena if they wanted to sell more tickets.
 



howeda7 said:
At best there would be 5-6 games/year you could draw more than 10K (week-end conference home games + Wisconsin/Iowa if during the week.). The other 12 would not. The extra cost is not really justified. Plus a couple of those could be moved to the Wolves arena if they wanted to sell more tickets.
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Agreed. And it is really worth it to do so? Selling an extra 5K in tickets at 3- bucks each (they are going to be bad lower cost seats) only is $150K gross for each of 3-4 games a year tops. And the only way those few games will see more is if the gophers are good, which they have not been in a long time.

10K seats is plenty for a CBB arena.
 





MNfootballfan said:
True, multi-use would be a positive, but the culture of Austin, Texas is different than Minneapolis. Not in a good way or bad way. They have a strong music culture - South x Southwest, 6th Street is a poor man's Broadway, Rainey Street District, etc. Austin now hosts the Country Music Awards at the Moody Center. Not saying a new Gopher arena couldn't do the same, just that I don't see Live Nation coming to the U of M and offering the same deal.
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The presumed major stake-holder in an arena with modifiable capacity would be the Timberwolves (off campus) not Live Nation or any other concert promoting entity.
 


Ope3 said:
The presumed major stake-holder in an arena with modifiable capacity would be the Timberwolves (off campus) not Live Nation or any other concert promoting entity.
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I see what you are saying.

My pipe dream is that Lore/A Rod bring in the Wilf's and they work out a deal to build an arena down in Eagan around the Vikings facility. I know it is a long shot, but...
 




The solution is simple: kick The PAV out and have basketball take over the entire building. Make Williams Arena whole once again. There will be ample room for renovations.

Marriucci got kicked out and across the street and look at how that turned out.
 

MNfootballfan said:
I see what you are saying.

My pipe dream is that Lore/A Rod bring in the Wilf's and they work out a deal to build an arena down in Eagan around the Vikings facility. I know it is a long shot, but...
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I don't think the prospect of Lore/ARod (and Bloomberg)-TWolves heading to Eagan is a long short.

I think it would be a much harder sell to have the Gophers join the Wolves in Dakota Cty (beyond a few games if the Boutique On Campus Arena Remodel-Rebuild comes to fruition) as opposed to Downtown MPLS.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Agreed. And it is really worth it to do so? Selling an extra 5K in tickets at 3- bucks each (they are going to be bad lower cost seats) only is $150K gross for each of 3-4 games a year tops. And the only way those few games will see more is if the gophers are good, which they have not been in a long time.

10K seats is plenty for a CBB arena.
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Meant 30 bucks lol
 


I just watched a youtube video on unusual/weird college basketball arenas. The Barn was one of them. But there are others that aren't exactly what one might consider state of the art. Including Assembly Hall at IU, and arenas at Vanderbilt, Villanova, and the legendary Palestra in Philly. Hinkle, which I always refer to in these discussions is also mentioned. They didn't mention it, but Cameron Indoor isn't exactly a modern entertainment facility. It didn't even have air conditioning until 2002.

I still strongly believe that the building should be saved, unless it's just not realistically possible to financially do so. And that may be the case - that the physical plant and structure just can't be brought up to date, but I think doing a remodel like they did with Hinkle would be great.
 

disco said:
I just watched a youtube video on unusual/weird college basketball arenas. The Barn was one of them. But there are others that aren't exactly what one might consider state of the art. Including Assembly Hall at IU, and arenas at Vanderbilt, Villanova, and the legendary Palestra in Philly. Hinkle, which I always refer to in these discussions is also mentioned. They didn't mention it, but Cameron Indoor isn't exactly a modern entertainment facility. It didn't even have air conditioning until 2002.

I still strongly believe that the building should be saved, unless it's just not realistically possible to financially do so. And that may be the case - that the physical plant and structure just can't be brought up to date, but I think doing a remodel like they did with Hinkle would be great.
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I'm curious; what did it say about Assembly Hall? Architecturally, I consider it a postmodern marvel. Contempoary with the Harry S Truman sports complex, which is now threatened.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I'm curious; what did it say about Assembly Hall? Architecturally, I consider it a postmodern marvel. Contempoary with the Harry S Truman sports complex, which is now threatened.
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Just that as a sports arena, it's really quite odd in terms of configuration. I guess I didn't even realize how strange it appears with the super steep and high sides and virtually no end seating. Certainly not what anyone would consider modern in terms of sightlines or amenities.

And you mentioned the KC complex - Kaufmann is my favorite MLB stadium by far and I hate the idea that they want to replace it. I think it's nearly perfect in every way. The only stadium I liked more was Milwaukee County.
 

If the U does want to keep the Barn and renovate it, they should look no further than Welsh-Ryan Arena in Evanston for direction on how to do it right. Northwestern gutted the place, reducing capacity and creating better sight lines, expanded the concourses and modernized facilities like bathrooms and concessions and made it an intimate place to watch a game. It’s really nice.
 
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I was in Assembly Hall years ago (not during a game) and the stands shoot up into the roof at what looks like almost a ninety degree angle. Really weird. I was in Welsh-Ryan for a game before the remodel. Really strange configuration and a total dump. I've also been to Carver-Hawkeye arena for a game and it's a totally sterile, dead environment, even when full. If they tear down Williams, we don't want that.
 

I ask about Assembly Hall because there are two venues in the Big Ten (pre recent expansion) that I consider unique, distinctive, irreplaceable treasures: Assembly Hall and Williams Arena. As with Royals Stadium, I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop and chatter to begin that Assembly Hall is over a half century old now and maybe needs to be replaced by something that's like every other venue everywhere else. Maybe that'll never happen, and that would be good, but IU hasn't been as successful in recent years, and I know how things work and how blaming the building is an easy, lazy answer.

When it comes to arenas or offensive or defensive schemes or anything in competitive sports, you have two basic choices:
1. Do what everyone else is doing and try to be better at it than everyone else.
2. Do your own unique thing, innovate new ways of doing things, zig while the other guy is zagging, all in the pursuit of a competitive edge.

I generally favor the second approach. I'm an innovative person by nature. In short, I think a renovated Williams Arena can be an advantage to the program if sold the right way. When that place is full and loud, there's nothing like it anywhere. That's a competitive advantage waiting to be exploited or re-exploited, as the case may be.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I ask about Assembly Hall because there are two venues in the Big Ten (pre recent expansion) that I consider unique, distinctive, irreplaceable treasures: Assembly Hall and Williams Arena. As with Royals Stadium, I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop and chatter to begin that Assembly Hall is over a half century old now and maybe needs to be replaced by something that's like every other venue everywhere else. Maybe that'll never happen, and that would be good, but IU hasn't been as successful in recent years, and I know how things work and how blaming the building is an easy, lazy answer.

When it comes to arenas or offensive or defensive schemes or anything in competitive sports, you have two basic choices:
1. Do what everyone else is doing and try to be better at it than everyone else.
2. Do your own unique thing, innovate new ways of doing things, zig while the other guy is zagging, all in the pursuit of a competitive edge.

I generally favor the second approach. I'm an innovative person by nature. In short, I think a renovated Williams Arena can be an advantage to the program if sold the right way. When that place is full and loud, there's nothing like it anywhere. That's a competitive advantage waiting to be exploited or re-exploited, as the case may be.
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Bad. I want to start by saying I deeply respect you, unequivocally.

Williams Arena is a treasure of early 20th century technology and vision.

It is a horrible structure to reconfigure because it was engineered in the early 20th century. There is no getting around that without incredible expense.
 


Something dramatic definitely needs to be done with Williams.

But I would point to NC State's experience with Reynolds Coliseum as a cautionary tale of how leaving history behind can go very wrong. They severely downgraded from the best on-campus experience in the country to an antiseptic venue share with the NHL (obviously that's not going to happen at UMN, but making a bigger point).

Bigger and newer isn't always better.
 

ShushPush said:
Bad. I want to start by saying I deeply respect you, unequivocally.

Williams Arena is a treasure of early 20th century technology and vision.

It is a horrible structure to reconfigure because it was engineered in the early 20th century. There is no getting around that without incredible expense.
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You will get no argument from me that renovating is more difficult and often more expensive than building new. You have to look no further than the 3rd Avenue bridge, which went well over schedule and presumably over estimate. But would I rather have torn it down and built a new bridge? No way. Some things are worth the money.
 

Bad Gopher said:
You will get no argument from me that renovating is more difficult and often more expensive than building new. You have to look no further than the 3rd Avenue bridge, which went well over schedule and presumably over estimate. But would I rather have torn it down and built a new bridge? No way. Some things are worth the money.
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I appreciate your preservationist sentiment and your willingness to not spare the expense to keep what you rightly call a gem. I, on the other hand, see a future cost to the preservation that far exceeds its value. If we preserve it, wouldn't a model do? A virtual tour? An example of its existence preserved but not in total. Isn't that the logical thing to do in this case?
 

ShushPush said:
I appreciate your preservationist sentiment and your willingness to not spare the expense to keep what you rightly call a gem. I, on the other hand, see a future cost to the preservation that far exceeds its value. If we preserve it, wouldn't a model do? A virtual tour? An example of its existence preserved but not in total. Isn't that the logical thing to do in this case?
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In the case of the old Highway 100, PBS did a documentary film, and that was considered mitigation for losing all those old structures. Although legal and proper, it was a shame. Part of Graesser Park was desrroyed just so we could have a longer queueing length on a ramp. That makes me cry.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Williams arena has zero effect on recruiting and does not prevent the Gophers from winning.

The only effect it has is on the fan experience.
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This. I was thinking about it last night when some were saying it affects recruiting. In a specific cases, maybe a kid cares.

But the discussion about the Barn really shouldn't have anything to do with that. All the issues with the Barn are related to fan experience. None of those things affect the kids on the floor, and if it's loud, they will feel it and love it.
 

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