Reusse: Unlike the Gophers’ coaching situation, the solution for Williams Arena is simple: Blow up The Barn

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Dave H said:
Right but the Moody Center is a UT arena...not a pro team arena that is retrofitted to be a college arena when needed. (which is what howeda was saying in the post you replied to) Yes a few pro games have been played there...but it is a completely different animal than what you are advocating. A shared facility is a terrible idea and has zero in common with UT.
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True, but Moody is also the primary arena/venue in a metro area of 2.4 million. It's not just for UT hoops. It's Austin's Target/Xcel center.
 

Dave H said:
I know it has (I think I watched a game there once) but we aren't talking about a stray game here or there, or games after the season (when the ice is taken out) we are talking quite a few Big Ten games being played in tandem with a full hockey schedule. (sometimes within a couple days of each other...assuming they can stop from scheduling games the same day which the Big Ten sucks at) You would be using a substandard basketball option to make a substandard hockey product.
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disco said:
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You've shown this picture over and over and over through the years. Nobody disagrees that this is abysmal. However, the size of the rink has been reduced since this was taken and is the same (or within a few feet) as Wisconsin and Ohio State. They seem to make it work. If you're using it for more than a three-day basketball tournament, a more permanent solution would be found. This picture has no relation to what it would look like if it became the basketball team's home.

I'm not advocating for Mariucci. However, I it would be much better than Williams Arena. And, given the financial realities at the Legislature and whether donors giving to a stadium rather than NIL makes any sense, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mariucci happens someday.
 

It's actually important for the Gophers to have a plan and "get in line" before the Timberwolves/Wild X renovations.

One of the reasons TCF funding passed is that they were going to pass funding for Target Field, but there was no way they could say "no" to the U and "yes" to the Twins at same time. The same is true here. There's a risk they will try to force them into a shared arena but the reality is that you need a "new Barn" for Volleyball, wrestling, Women's basketball anyway. So build an 8-10K seat replacement that will cost about half of whatever the Wolves are proposing. If you want to play 3-4 games/year in the new Wolves arena when playing Wisconsin or a big non-conference game that can still draw 15K, great.
 

Dave H said:
Right but the Moody Center is a UT arena...not a pro team arena that is retrofitted to be a college arena when needed. (which is what howeda was saying in the post you replied to) Yes a few pro games have been played there...but it is a completely different animal than what you are advocating. A shared facility is a terrible idea and has zero in common with UT.
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Plus the new Wolves owners will probably be paying for probably at least half of this. They will not be keen on retrofitting anything. They will treat it like the Wilf's did modifying US Bank for college baseball. Begrudgingly and half-@ssed.
 


Hates Monikers said:
You've shown this picture over and over and over through the years. Nobody disagrees that this is abysmal. However, the size of the rink has been reduced since this was taken and is the same (or within a few feet) as Wisconsin and Ohio State. They seem to make it work. If you're using it for more than a three-day basketball tournament, a more permanent solution would be found. This picture has no relation to what it would look like if it became the basketball team's home.

I'm not advocating for Mariucci. However, I it would be much better than Williams Arena. And, given the financial realities at the Legislature and whether donors giving to a stadium rather than NIL makes any sense, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mariucci happens someday.
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The length didn't change. The width is tighter. I played in a hockey arena in sectionals. They put the bands on the ends and tried temporary bleachers on the sides. It really didn't work well. Plus, Mariucci couldn't hold a candle to the way the balcony at Williams falls over the court and creates noise.
 

howeda7 said:
Plus the new Wolves owners will probably be paying for probably at least half of this. They will not be keen on retrofitting anything. They will treat it like the Wilf's did modifying US Bank for college baseball. Begrudgingly and half-@ssed.
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I think the bold is a poor assumption.

An arena that could be modified down from normal NBA size down to 11 or 12k, could also benefit the new Timberwolves Owners as they that would be the right size for the Lynx as well as other events/concerts that are more in the 12,000 range.

If they do it well it would be a benefit to all. Obviously if they do it "half-@ssed", then it's a net L.
 

Ope3 said:
I think the bold is a poor assumption.

An arena that could be modified down from normal NBA size down to 11 or 12k, could also benefit the new Timberwolves Owners as they that would be the right size for the Lynx as well as other events/concerts that are more in the 12,000 range.

If they do it well it would be a benefit to all. Obviously if they do it "half-@ssed", then it's a net L.
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Even in that best-case, I'd rather the Gophers play in an 8K gym on campus than a 12K gym 4 miles away. They will still have to address where all of the other sports that use the Barn go.
 




howeda7 said:
Even in that best-case, I'd rather the Gophers play in an 8K gym on campus than a 12K gym 4 miles away. They will still have to address where all of the other sports that use the Barn go.
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If the question is would I prefer the Gophers to play in a NEW On Campus Gym of 8,000 vs a NEW 12,000 Downtown Arena, sure I would agree with you. 100%. Stay in Dinkytown.

Now, if that On Campus arena costs hundreds of millions of bucks the University and State don't have or are unwilling to spend, that changes the outlook for my opinion dramatically.

Given how much College Sports is changing day-by-day with NIL, Portal, Conference Realignment, etc it's also fair to question what exactly would they be getting back for such an expenditure in an On Campus Rebuild/Remodel. Is it worth it or could that money be better spent within the Athletic Dept?

If the question is would I prefer the Gophers play in 100 Year Old Williams Arena vs a NEW 12,000 Downtown Arena, I'm probably opting for the move off campus (if it means better revenue or would better attract recruits).

I'm open to anything beyond maintaining status quo.

Maybe it's a hybrid? Some games on Campus, some games off Campus.
 

My selfish advocacy of keeping the Barn comes from my being able bodied. As one of my work colleagues says, we're all only temporarily able bodied (he calls us all TABs). After watching the lady struggle up the stairs to Section 217 the other day, knowing that an aging population is going to need better accommodation, and also knowing that even people who don't warrant special accommodation are having trouble using the building... We need something that's fan friendlier. We need a first-class facility. Williams Arena ain't it as is.

I do think there's a way to use the shell of the building, and I believe the roof will be sound for many years with good upkeep. But we're talking about a gutting here and probably a reorientation. I'm for that. I would take that over a teardown.
 


Bad Gopher said:
My selfish advocacy of keeping the Barn comes from my being able bodied. As one of my work colleagues says, we're all only temporarily able bodied (he calls us all TABs). After watching the lady struggle up the stairs to Section 217 the other day, knowing that an aging population is going to need better accommodation, and also knowing that even people who don't warrant special accommodation are having trouble using the building... We need something that's fan friendlier. We need a first-class facility. Williams Arena ain't it as is.

I do think there's a way to use the shell of the building, and I believe the roof will be sound for many years with good upkeep. But we're talking about a gutting here and probably a reorientation. I'm for that. I would take that over a teardown.
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At a certain point though, keeping the shell isn't worth it. Look at the Chicago Bears stadium. They spent a ton on "renovating" Soldier Field and now they're replacing less than 20 years later.
 



Ope3 said:
If the question is would I prefer the Gophers to play in a NEW On Campus Gym of 8,000 vs a NEW 12,000 Downtown Arena, sure I would agree with you. 100%. Stay in Dinkytown.

Now, if that On Campus arena costs hundreds of millions of bucks the University and State don't have or are unwilling to spend, that changes the outlook for my opinion dramatically.

Given how much College Sports is changing day-by-day with NIL, Portal, Conference Realignment, etc it's also fair to question what exactly would they be getting back for such an expenditure in an On Campus Rebuild/Remodel. Is it worth it or could that money be better spent within the Athletic Dept?

If the question is would I prefer the Gophers play in 100 Year Old Williams Arena vs a NEW 12,000 Downtown Arena, I'm probably opting for the move off campus (if it means better revenue or would better attract recruits).

I'm open to anything beyond maintaining status quo.

Maybe it's a hybrid? Some games on Campus, some games off Campus.
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Is Volleyball, women's basketball etc. just going to keep playing in 100 year old Williams arena then?
 

howeda7 said:
Is Volleyball, women's basketball etc. just going to keep playing in 100 year old Williams arena then?
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Volleyball plays in the Pav, which is connected to but not Williams Arena. I really have no opinion of where they play.

Women's basketball could go back to the Pav, follow the men's basketball team or some other solution.
 


Hates Monikers said:
You've shown this picture over and over and over through the years. Nobody disagrees that this is abysmal. However, the size of the rink has been reduced since this was taken and is the same (or within a few feet) as Wisconsin and Ohio State. They seem to make it work. If you're using it for more than a three-day basketball tournament, a more permanent solution would be found. This picture has no relation to what it would look like if it became the basketball team's home.

I'm not advocating for Mariucci. However, I it would be much better than Williams Arena. And, given the financial realities at the Legislature and whether donors giving to a stadium rather than NIL makes any sense, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mariucci happens someday.
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The issue is that Mariucci was purpose built for hockey. Those other arenas were built as multi-purpose to begin with. And they just spent a ton to redo the rink size. Multi-purpose arenas have moveable seats to accomodate basketball and hockey.
 

Ope3 said:
Volleyball plays in the Pav, which is connected to but not Williams Arena. I really have no opinion of where they play.

Women's basketball could go back to the Pav, follow the men's basketball team or some other solution.
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I believe VB has moved some of their bigger games to Williams. Either way it gets used a lot. This is not just about Men's basketball. One way or the other The Barn is 100 and will either need to be replaced or kept functional as is.
 

howeda7 said:
I believe VB has moved some of their bigger games to Williams. Either way it gets used a lot. This is not just about Men's basketball. One way or the other The Barn is 100 and will either need to be replaced or kept functional as is.
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Volleyball could certainly play games off campus as well if the PAV isn't big enough. I assume that's what Nebraska does.

I understand it's not just about Men's basketball, but there is no denying it predominantly about Men's basketball.
 

Bad Gopher said:
My selfish advocacy of keeping the Barn comes from my being able bodied. As one of my work colleagues says, we're all only temporarily able bodied (he calls us all TABs). After watching the lady struggle up the stairs to Section 217 the other day, knowing that an aging population is going to need better accommodation, and also knowing that even people who don't warrant special accommodation are having trouble using the building... We need something that's fan friendlier. We need a first-class facility. Williams Arena ain't it as is.

I do think there's a way to use the shell of the building, and I believe the roof will be sound for many years with good upkeep. But we're talking about a gutting here and probably a reorientation. I'm for that. I would take that over a teardown.
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Television is a wonderful thing.
 


howeda7 said:
At a certain point though, keeping the shell isn't worth it. Look at the Chicago Bears stadium. They spent a ton on "renovating" Soldier Field and now they're replacing less than 20 years later.
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The Bears did a lot of things wrong with that renovation. They built the stadium entirely too small (especially for a major market), and insisted their heritage was outdoor football, so they didn’t include a dome (which would’ve been hugely expensive to retrofit anyway). But in the last 20+ years the economics of stadiums have changed significantly, especially in the NFL, as many owners now want to buy the land and develop it into entertainment districts for ancillary revenue streams they don’t have to share, which is what the Bears want to do in Arlington Heights. All of those considerations are behind the Bears’ push for a new domed stadium, although it’s very doubtful the state is going to play ball with them on contributing tax dollars to fund it.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
The Bears did a lot of things wrong with that renovation. They built the stadium entirely too small (especially for a major market), and insisted their heritage was outdoor football, so they didn’t include a dome (which would’ve been hugely expensive to retrofit anyway). But in the last 20+ years the economics of stadiums have changed significantly, especially in the NFL, as many owners now want to buy the land and develop it into entertainment districts for ancillary revenue streams they don’t have to share, which is what the Bears want to do in Arlington Heights. All of those considerations are behind the Bears’ push for a new domed stadium, although it’s very doubtful the state is going to play ball with them on contributing tax dollars to fund it.
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Comparing the Chicago Bears failed renovation from 20+ yrs ago to our current "conundrum" is again, ridiculous on it's face.

I'm really not sure what an NFL franchises failed reno has anything to do with Gopher Basketball.
 
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GoodasGold said:
Television is a wonderful thing.
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Yea...why are we pretending to cater to people who can barely walk the Barn steps?? I know plenty of old people who have nice seats in the lower bowl (long term, big $$ season ticker holders) who have zero complaints.

I'm 41 and fit (besides the liver), my seats are row 2 upper deck. And yes, the Barn deck seats require some steep stairs. Personally I enjoy sprinting those steps for my beers and bathroom breaks.

But there are few if any elderly/infirmed people I've seen trying to get up in the 2nd level all season. It's literally not an issue.

The restrooms and concourses are an issue. But we can fix that.

I cannot believe some people are actually advocating tearing down our historic on campus arena.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Comparing the Chicago Bears failed renovation from 20+ yrs ago to our current "conundrum" is again, ridiculous on it's face.

I'm really not sure what an NFL franchises failed reno has anything to do with Gopher Basketball.
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I was responding to another post that brought it up and provided some background. Don’t like it, move on to the next post. Survive and advance.
 


WindyCityGopher said:
The Bears did a lot of things wrong with that renovation. They built the stadium entirely too small (especially for a major market), and insisted their heritage was outdoor football, so they didn’t include a dome (which would’ve been hugely expensive to retrofit anyway). But in the last 20+ years the economics of stadiums have changed significantly, especially in the NFL, as many owners now want to buy the land and develop it into entertainment districts for ancillary revenue streams they don’t have to share, which is what the Bears want to do in Arlington Heights. All of those considerations are behind the Bears’ push for a new domed stadium, although it’s very doubtful the state is going to play ball with them on contributing tax dollars to fund it.
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The point is that if you want a replica, you can have a replica without bending over backwards to "keep the shell" of the old building etc. Yankee Stadium is a good replica. The Missouri arena is as well.
 



Zeppelin Gopher said:
Yea...why are we pretending to cater to people who can barely walk the Barn steps?? I know plenty of old people who have nice seats in the lower bowl (long term, big $$ season ticker holders) who have zero complaints.

I'm 41 and fit (besides the liver), my seats are row 2 upper deck. And yes, the Barn deck seats require some steep stairs. Personally I enjoy sprinting those steps for my beers and bathroom breaks.

But there are few if any elderly/infirmed people I've seen trying to get up in the 2nd level all season. It's literally not an issue.

The restrooms and concourses are an issue. But we can fix that.

I cannot believe some people are actually advocating tearing down our historic on campus arena.
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Believe it.
 

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