(Woodbury MN) Davidson-transfer Michael Jones in the portal

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cjbfbp said:
Yada, yada, yada.

We tried playing last year with no good big men. Obviously, that didn't work.

You mentioned Villanova. Yes, they are a guard oriented team but they have put 4 big men in the NBA since 2018. They may not have the same amount of minutes for big men as some other teams but the ones they have are well above average.
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Read the whole post… no one said you need no one.
 


fan of Ray Williams said:
Be surprised if Johnson doesn't get him. Think it will be Jones, Larson, Walton and Garcia.
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The thing that worries me with this is still ball handling / who facilitates the offense. Larson would be in line for huge minutes.

If we don’t get Walton and/or Garcia, I’m supporting another guard. Or else a higher level PG-type than Larson.

I don’t think it would be that crazy to see the 4 guys you’ve listed though, and if that’s what it is, so be it.

I’m also not totally sold on Walton leaving UNC. Garcia seems more likely with all the family-related issues locally. I also have no inside scoop besides a solid Shooter Sunday snippet though.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Think so? I'm probably way off base anyways. Holy Man is right, might want to offer someone from outside the state also. Which he is doing and most likely would replace one of the four I mentioned.
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Pitino went through the weeds and dug out unknown Lil Dre and he was huge to that NIT champ team. There are kids out there…
 






GopherWeatherGuy said:
If that's what we end up with we still wouldn't have a B1G caliber guard to start.
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What is the definition of a Big Ten caliber guard? There seems to be no established one but for many people around here it seems to be one that had a high star rating coming out of high school, got numerous P6 offers, and was on a P6 roster. I'm going to give my definition of a Big Ten caliber guard which I believe is a much better one:

A Big Ten caliber guard is one who comes to this league and plays well, or at least well enough.

There are countless four star players with multiple P6 offers who had really mediocre careers. For example, we just unloaded one when Tre' Williams transferred. He fell out the rotation for a 3-28 Oregon State team about 60% through the season and was hardly heard from again. I bet his coach wishes he recruited a mid-major player who had proven himself over an extended period of time instead.

Willis didn't look like a starting point guard for a high level team earlier in his career (didn't look like one during his first stint here either although he played all right then) but he performed well above average for the league during his 5th year of playing.

I really don't care where a player comes from but I was curious about Larson so I looked in to his historical record and watched a 10 minute video of Wofford playing Georgia this season. I think he would do just fine here as a 5th year player. He's not flashy or super fast but he plays hard on both ends of the court, shoots well, keeps the ball moving, shows leadership, and appears physically strong. I don't claim to know Ben Johnson's philosophy for team play clearly yet but my initial impressions are that an experienced, low-usage point guard who shoots well, plays hard, and shows leadership would fit in well with Johnson's preferences.
 



cjbfbp said:
A Big Ten caliber guard is one who comes to this league and plays well, or at least well enough
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I do think if Larson and Jones are ready to commit, you lock 'em in now. That may be playing it safe-ish. Larson's numbers just really aren't great. I'm not saying he couldn't make it happen in the Big 10 though. He played big minutes for a decent/OK Wofford team.

Fair to say the majority of us are in agreement that Jones is a take for sure.

Not sure where everyone is at as far as Larson.
 
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cjbfbp said:
What is the definition of a Big Ten caliber guard? There seems to be no established one but for many people around here it seems to be one that had a high star rating coming out of high school, got numerous P6 offers, and was on a P6 roster. I'm going to give my definition of a Big Ten caliber guard which I believe is a much better one:

A Big Ten caliber guard is one who comes to this league and plays well, or at least well enough.

There are countless four star players with multiple P6 offers who had really mediocre careers. For example, we just unloaded one when Tre' Williams transferred. He fell out the rotation for a 3-28 Oregon State team about 60% through the season and was hardly heard from again. I bet his coach wishes he recruited a mid-major player who had proven himself over an extended period of time instead.

Willis didn't look like a starting point guard for a high level team earlier in his career (didn't look like one during his first stint here either although he played all right then) but he performed well above average for the league during his 5th year of playing.

I really don't care where a player comes from but I was curious about Larson so I looked in to his historical record and watched a 10 minute video of Wofford playing Georgia this season. I think he would do just fine here as a 5th year player. He's not flashy or super fast but he plays hard on both ends of the court, shoots well, keeps the ball moving, shows leadership, and appears physically strong. I don't claim to know Ben Johnson's philosophy for team play clearly yet but my initial impressions are that an experienced, low-usage point guard who shoots well, plays hard, and shows leadership would fit in well with Johnson's preferences.
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Once they've played several years of college, I don't care as much about stars. What have they accomplished so far in college? This is why I'm lukewarm on Walton.

A lot of these players who dominate the lower levels typically see their production cut in half once they play full time in a top conference. Look at two of our transfers from last year. Loewe averaged 16.2 ppg and Stephens averaged 16.4 prior to coming to MN. Those are two players that should come off the bench for a good B1G team. They averaged 8.1 and 10.2 respectively this season.

Mike Jones averaged 11.8, Ryan Larson 8.8 this season. Good, but not great at Davidson and Wofford. They are lesser versions of Stephens and Loewe, and bench players at best on a B1G team.

As for Willis, he wasn't a starting point guard for a high level team. He was a starting point guard on the worst team in the B1G. He also started his career at an SEC school, and already put up 9 ppg for the Gophers in a season where he was beat up with injuries. If Willis played for a B1G school who made the tournament this season, his numbers would be much lower.
 

skiumah1 said:
I do think if Larson and Jones are ready to commit, you lock 'em in now. That may be playing it safe-ish. Larson's numbers just really aren't great. I'm not saying he couldn't make it happen in the Big 10 though. He played big minutes for a decent/OK Wofford team.

Fair to say the majority of us are in agreement that Jones is a take for sure.

Not sure where everyone is at as far as Larson.
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we need 2 PG's from the portal.....1 that we can rely on getting heavy run each game....and 1 that is our PG off the bench....Larson would fit the one coming off the bench. Thats my take on him.
 




Gophs24 said:
we need 2 PG's from the portal.....1 that we can rely on getting heavy run each game....and 1 that is our PG off the bench....Larson would fit the one coming off the bench. Thats my take on him.
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Yeah I like that. We just gotta take him to make sure we lock in at least 1 ball handler to get started here. I'm in agreement on needing 2.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Once they've played several years of college, I don't care as much about stars. What have they accomplished so far in college? This is why I'm lukewarm on Walton.

A lot of these players who dominate the lower levels typically see their production cut in half once they play full time in a top conference. Look at two of our transfers from last year. Loewe averaged 16.2 ppg and Stephens averaged 16.4 prior to coming to MN. Those are two players that should come off the bench for a good B1G team. They averaged 8.1 and 10.2 respectively this season.

Mike Jones averaged 11.8, Ryan Larson 8.8 this season. Good, but not great at Davidson and Wofford. They are lesser versions of Stephens and Loewe, and bench players at best on a B1G team.

As for Willis, he wasn't a starting point guard for a high level team. He was a starting point guard on the worst team in the B1G. He also started his career at an SEC school, and already put up 9 ppg for the Gophers in a season where he was beat up with injuries. If Willis played for a B1G school who made the tournament this season, his numbers would be much lower.
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1. We aren't just looking at stars with Walton, he wasn't even a 4 star. He had a down year. I don't know why he did but I am willing to look at his whole body of work. He won a starting job early in his freshman year at UNC. That's impressive. He had some big games against good competition: 18 points against Duke (4/7 3PT) and 19 against Marquette (5/7 3PT) and shot 42% from 3PT on the season. Then his coach retired and things changed.

2. I agree that I want Larson and Jones to be players that came off the bench. If they have to start for us that is not ideal, but it probably means we would mix in a lot of Carrington and Henley too which could be a good thing long term.
 

I just don't get it......Jones is one of the best 3 point shooters in the NCAA (by percentage) and we are REALLY debating whether he is a take? The old saying "beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind. He and Battle would form a very impressive shooting combo. Frankly, i think he would be a HUGE upgrade from Loewe.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Once they've played several years of college, I don't care as much about stars. What have they accomplished so far in college? This is why I'm lukewarm on Walton.

A lot of these players who dominate the lower levels typically see their production cut in half once they play full time in a top conference. Look at two of our transfers from last year. Loewe averaged 16.2 ppg and Stephens averaged 16.4 prior to coming to MN. Those are two players that should come off the bench for a good B1G team. They averaged 8.1 and 10.2 respectively this season.

Mike Jones averaged 11.8, Ryan Larson 8.8 this season. Good, but not great at Davidson and Wofford. They are lesser versions of Stephens and Loewe, and bench players at best on a B1G team.

As for Willis, he wasn't a starting point guard for a high level team. He was a starting point guard on the worst team in the B1G. He also started his career at an SEC school, and already put up 9 ppg for the Gophers in a season where he was beat up with injuries. If Willis played for a B1G school who made the tournament this season, his numbers would be much lower.
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Mike Jones played on an outstanding basketball team. He was surrounded by other talented offensive players.

I'd rather take a player who averages 11 points a game / 42% 3-pt clip on a winning team than the high-scoring scorer/usage player of a bottom-dweller.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Would you or anyone be excited for either of them if they weren't originally from MN?
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Haha I do like my Minnesotans.

Larson I may be giving too much credit. Jones I truly think is the best of those 4 we're talking about here just because of what he did for an NCAA tournament team this year. Really good 3 and D guy that I think can hold is own in the Big 10.

I wouldn't have an issue with Jones starting for us next year opening night.
 

eker0016 said:
1. We aren't just looking at stars with Walton, he wasn't even a 4 star. He had a down year. I don't know why he did but I am willing to look at his whole body of work. He won a starting job early in his freshman year at UNC. That's impressive. He had some big games against good competition: 18 points against Duke (4/7 3PT) and 19 against Marquette (5/7 3PT) and shot 42% from 3PT on the season. Then his coach retired and things changed.

2. I agree that I want Larson and Jones to be players that came off the bench. If they have to start for us that is not ideal, but it probably means we would mix in a lot of Carrington and Henley too which could be a good thing long term.
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Walton was 4* recruit.
He did have some nice games as a freshman. He has also had good opportunities this season as well. He was averaging ~15 min per game through mid February, but his numbers have significantly regressed compared to last season. That's not a good sign.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Would you or anyone be excited for either of them if they weren't originally from MN?
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This is a fair point as there are a number of posters that get way too hung up on the local angle with recruits.

Don't know much specifically about either of these guys. My hope is that Johnson goes out and brings in the best transfers he can, regardless of where they call home.
 


topos said:
Mike Jones played on an outstanding basketball team. He was surrounded by other talented offensive players.

I'd rather take a player who averages 11 points a game / 42% 3-pt clip on a winning team than the high-scoring scorer/usage player of a bottom-dweller.
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I think Jones is a good player and have no problem taking him as a rotation player. I don't think he's a starter on a good B1G team. I would take him over Larson and Walton though.
 




GopherWeatherGuy said:
Peyton Willis shot 43% this season and we finished last.
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Not really sure that has anything to do with the discussion.

If you are looking for a guy like Jones to be your best player then that is a problem. If you are bringing him in to be a sharshooter and key part of the rotation he could be very effective.
 

can somebody tell me.....what position is he? can he play some 2? is he strickly a 3?
 


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