Jerry Palm says Gophers stepping up non-conf schedule, can build stronger NCAA case

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per this article from Marcus:

Gophers men's basketball team toughens up its non-conference schedule
By Marcus R. Fuller

Tubby Smith is expected to have his most talented University of Minnesota men's basketball team this season, which is exactly why he is giving it a tougher test before the Big Ten Conference season.

The Gophers, who last season finished 22-11 and reached the NCAA tournament for the first time since 2005, have a more demanding nonconference schedule this season. They open the 76 Classic in Anaheim, Calif., against Butler on Nov. 26 and play Miami (Fla.) in the Big Ten/ACC Challenge on Dec. 2.

The 76 Classic has a chance to provide other intriguing matchups for Minnesota, which joins UCLA, West Virginia, Butler, Clemson, Texas AM, Portland and Long Beach State in the eight-team field. The Gophers would play the winner of UCLA-Portland if they advance to the second round, and they will end up playing three games.

They also could face former Gophers and current Long Beach State coach Dan Monson.

The toughest of the eight nonconference games at Williams Arena might be against Stephen F. Austin on Nov. 16 and against Morgan State on Dec. 8. Both opponents played in the NCAA tournament last season. St. Joseph's, traditionally one of the top teams in the Atlantic 10 Conference, plays Minnesota on Dec. 12.

"That certainly sounds like a tougher schedule, like they're stepping out," CollegeRPI.com founder Jerry Palm said. "Certainly you have a chance to make a gauge for yourself out of conference for the NCAA tournament, so that if you end up scuffling a bit in conference, you can still be in pretty good shape for the tournament."

Last season, Minnesota finished its nonconference schedule 12-0, but the only quality win was against then-No. 9 Louisville in Arizona. There will be several more opportunities for the Gophers to build up their NCAA resume this year, especially on the road.

"There's definitely more opportunity there to build your NCAA tournament case," Palm said. "There's also, though, opportunity to totally blow your confidence and be shattered by the time you go to January and have to start playing conference games."

Smith, who returns his top nine players and welcomes his second consecutive top 20 recruiting class, is scheduled to open the Big Ten schedule at home against Penn State on Dec. 29.

The Gophers' regular-season opener is scheduled for Nov. 13 against Tennessee Tech.

"We feel like we have put together a very formidable schedule that will test us as we start the 2009-10 season," Smith said in a statement. "We will have a chance to play quality opponents in the nonconference, including a Butler team that I believe could make a run at the Final Four this season, and the Big Ten Conference will probably be as good as it's been in a very long time. We know that we have a very challenging schedule."

http://www.twincities.com/gophers/ci_13163609

Go Gophers!!
 

I just heard SS throw up.
 

LOL!!

How can Marcus Fuller write this article with a straight face?
 

BleedGopher said:
per this article from Marcus:

Gophers men's basketball team toughens up its non-conference schedule
By Marcus R. Fuller

Tubby Smith is expected to have his most talented University of Minnesota men's basketball team this season, which is exactly why he is giving it a tougher test before the Big Ten Conference season.

The Gophers, who last season finished 22-11 and reached the NCAA tournament for the first time since 2005, have a more demanding nonconference schedule this season. They open the 76 Classic in Anaheim, Calif., against Butler on Nov. 26 and play Miami (Fla.) in the Big Ten/ACC Challenge on Dec. 2.

The 76 Classic has a chance to provide other intriguing matchups for Minnesota, which joins UCLA, West Virginia, Butler, Clemson, Texas AM, Portland and Long Beach State in the eight-team field. The Gophers would play the winner of UCLA-Portland if they advance to the second round, and they will end up playing three games.

They also could face former Gophers and current Long Beach State coach Dan Monson.

The toughest of the eight nonconference games at Williams Arena might be against Stephen F. Austin on Nov. 16 and against Morgan State on Dec. 8. Both opponents played in the NCAA tournament last season. St. Joseph's, traditionally one of the top teams in the Atlantic 10 Conference, plays Minnesota on Dec. 12.

"That certainly sounds like a tougher schedule, like they're stepping out," CollegeRPI.com founder Jerry Palm said. "Certainly you have a chance to make a gauge for yourself out of conference for the NCAA tournament, so that if you end up scuffling a bit in conference, you can still be in pretty good shape for the tournament."

Last season, Minnesota finished its nonconference schedule 12-0, but the only quality win was against then-No. 9 Louisville in Arizona. There will be several more opportunities for the Gophers to build up their NCAA resume this year, especially on the road.

"There's definitely more opportunity there to build your NCAA tournament case," Palm said. "There's also, though, opportunity to totally blow your confidence and be shattered by the time you go to January and have to start playing conference games."

Smith, who returns his top nine players and welcomes his second consecutive top 20 recruiting class, is scheduled to open the Big Ten schedule at home against Penn State on Dec. 29.

The Gophers' regular-season opener is scheduled for Nov. 13 against Tennessee Tech.

"We feel like we have put together a very formidable schedule that will test us as we start the 2009-10 season," Smith said in a statement. "We will have a chance to play quality opponents in the nonconference, including a Butler team that I believe could make a run at the Final Four this season, and the Big Ten Conference will probably be as good as it's been in a very long time. We know that we have a very challenging schedule."

http://www.twincities.com/gophers/ci_13163609

Go Gophers!!
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I thought I saw (on ESPN) that one of the Stephen F Austin players collapsed and died this week. Not sure of specific details.
 

Rouser, glad to report that I didn't upchuck, but I did smirk a little bit. Yes, the overall nonconference schedule is better than last year, but I would ask, how could it not be? The only reason it's better is because the 76 Classic replaced the NABC "Classic".

I will enjoy watching the Gophers (on TV) compete against quality team(s) in Anaheim & Miami. Unfortunately, you & I as season-ticket holders will not get the same opportunity (in person) until late December.
 



Myron's story on the schedule

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/53749922.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUo8cyaiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

At least Myron acknowledges (unlike Marcus) that the home schedule is crappy. However, I would ask Myron to ask Joel point-blank if he finds it acceptable that one of his big money-makers -- which now has a respected, big-time head coach -- hasn't played a single BCS program (outside the mandated ACC Challenge) at The Barn 3 years running.

Maturi says in Myron's article that "luring a top-notch school to Williams Arena is more complicated than many realize," especially with Minnesota's favorable record at home. Tubby is 29-9 at the Barn in two seasons with the Gophers.

To me, the 29-9 home record really isn't that impressive. Only 7 of those wins came vs. teams that ended up ranked inside the top 100 of the RPI. Vs. what reasonably could be considered quality competition (top 100), the Gophers are 7-7 at Williams the last two seasons, with NDSU (last season) the only W coming from outside the Big 10. Maybe it's just me, but if I'm a major program and I want to schedule a home & home with another major program, I want to schedule one where there's a decent chance I can win on the opponent's home court. The Gophers certainly haven't proven they're a home heavyweight the past 2 seasons, though clearly strides were made in 2008-09.

Let's be honest, in recent years the Gophers have been nowhere near as difficult to beat at Williams Arena than they were in prior regimes (before Monson). But at this point in time, the "nobody will play us here because we're tough to beat at home" excuse just doesn't fly. The idea that a below-average to above-average BCS program (i.e Providence, Baylor, Oregon State or Ole Miss to name a few) like ourselves is scared shi*less to sign a home & home contract with the Gophers is an absolute fallacy. A lot of us aren't that stupid, even though those responsible for making the schedule would like to think we are.
 

Overall SOS Is Pretty Good

3 tough games in Anaheim. And pretty tough ACC road game at Miami. 2-2 split is bare minimum.

3 decent games, 5 cupcakes at home. Must go 8-0 for 10-2 OOC results.

Big 10 is tough this year. 12-6 would be pretty good result. 22-8 going into Big 10 tourney.

Check Florida OOC schedules in 2006 or 2007 and UConn OOC schedules in 1999 or 2004. Pretty weak OOC schedules yielded DAMN GOOD results in March each of those years.
 

SelectionSunday said:
http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/53749922.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUo8cyaiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

At least Myron acknowledges (unlike Marcus) that the home schedule is crappy. However, I would ask Myron to ask Joel point-blank if he finds it acceptable that one of his big money-makers -- which now has a respected, big-time head coach -- hasn't played a single BCS program (outside the mandated ACC Challenge) at The Barn 3 years running.

Maturi says in Myron's article that "luring a top-notch school to Williams Arena is more complicated than many realize," especially with Minnesota's favorable record at home. Tubby is 29-9 at the Barn in two seasons with the Gophers.

To me, the 29-9 home record really isn't that impressive. Only 7 of those wins came vs. teams that ended up ranked inside the top 100 of the RPI. Vs. what reasonably could be considered quality competition (top 100), the Gophers are 7-7 at Williams the last two seasons, with NDSU (last season) the only W coming from outside the Big 10. Maybe it's just me, but if I'm a major program and I want to schedule a home & home with another major program, I want to schedule one where there's a decent chance I can win on the opponent's home court. The Gophers certainly haven't proven they're a home heavyweight the past 2 seasons, though clearly strides were made in 2008-09.

Let's be honest, in recent years the Gophers have been nowhere near as difficult to beat at Williams Arena than they were in prior regimes (before Monson). But at this point in time, the "nobody will play us here because we're tough to beat at home" excuse just doesn't fly. The idea that a below-average to above-average BCS program (i.e Providence, Baylor, Oregon State or Ole Miss to name a few) like ourselves is scared shi*less to sign a home & home contract with the Gophers is an absolute fallacy. A lot of us aren't that stupid, even though those responsible for making the schedule would like to think we are.
Click to expand...

I have a strong hunch that Joel Maturi is more knowledgeable than anyone else who has opined here on this topic.
 



You're priceless FOT

Can your nose get any browner? Can you stick your whole head up there?
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
3 tough games in Anaheim. And pretty tough ACC road game at Miami. 2-2 split is bare minimum.

3 decent games, 5 cupcakes at home. Must go 8-0 for 10-2 OOC results.

Big 10 is tough this year. 12-6 would be pretty good result. 22-8 going into Big 10 tourney.

Check Florida OOC schedules in 2006 or 2007 and UConn OOC schedules in 1999 or 2004. Pretty weak OOC schedules yielded DAMN GOOD results in March each of those years.
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Why did Tubby decide to end the series with Iowa State FOT? Seems like that should have been an easy series to let continue and would have been as good as playing St Joesephs or whomever.

That is one said home slate and ISU had a similarly bad one last year but we did not have the talent Minnesota has this year. Pretty pathetic job by Tubby of trying to schedule solid teams to get the Gophers ready for Big Ten play.
 

Agree with everything SS said. I will say that Maturi did admit that its a problem in an email response to me. Indications were that he recently spoke with Tubby about the home schedule...hopefully this means at least one good game moving forward. Although the way things are going, the staff will wait until 2011/2012 to schedule a BCS home game since we will likely get one next year in the ACC/Big Ten challenge.
 

FarmerClone,

I am guessing that we cancelled the series with ISU because playing them doesn’t help us either financially or strategically. We need money to pay Tubby, build the new practice facility, and do whatever in the process of rebuilding. So, it is easier on us to pick lowly ranks who don’t demand much money and a commitment in return (commitment has a great financial implication, as well). Also, ISU is strategically almost useless to us as beating them doesn’t do us any good while their beating us even in Ames would be incredibly devastating in case that we become a bubble again. No incentive for us while ISU sees us as a boon both financially and strategically. That is the reality. Had they been in our shoe, ISU would have done the same.
 



I'd take a home & home neutral-site in a New York minute

I like both Joel & Tubby, I really do. By all accounts they appear to be good men. How can I not like an AD that brought a man of Tubby's success, stature & class to Dinkytown? Tubby's done such a super job in 2 years, he's accomplished something I thought was impossible. ... he's already made the Monson years (remember the Clemson game?) seem like it happened 100 years ago.

Unlike BNOT, however, I think it's acceptable to question the way something is being done, especially as it pertains to my #1 pet peeve, the Gophers' home OOC schedule.

With regards to Joel saying (paraphrasing) major programs teams will only play "here" if we agree to neutral-site agreements. ... If what it takes to get a couple quality games every season in the state of Minnesota is agreeing to "neutral-site" home-and-homes (with Target Center/Dome serving as Minnesota's site). ...

vs. Georgia Tech (Atlanta)
vs. West Virginia (Charleston)
vs. Oklahoma State (Oklahoma City)
vs. Arizona State (Phoenix)
vs. Vanderbilt (Nashville). ... just a few examples, I say go for it.

In lieu of the crap we've seen the last few years in November & December, I'd gladly sacrifice a couple visits to The Barn every season. If it means we'll see major programs at the Target Center/Dome like Cal, West Virginia & Villanova (circa 1995-97) and serves as a break from the usual steady diet of the UC Riversides, High Points, Browns & Utah Valleys of the world, I'm all for it.
 

SS,

Maturi’s defense for the home schedule is more or less of propaganda or of talking point for public consumption. The real reason is money and the season strategy of the coach. If we spend money, we can bring to the Barn a team better than us. We can schedule a series with any team if we are to disregard finance and season strategy. I differ with many in this forum with respect to how good we are, which is why I don’t agree with you guys on how to pick home opponents at least for this season. Financial consideration is a huge factor given the expense, present and future, we are committed to. I don’t know much about the financial numbers involved in this equation, so I cannot argue about it. But, this is a big complication, would you not agree? Also, I think teams we want to play or establish a series with may not give us what we think is equitable because they may not see playing us beneficial in terms of finance and their season strategy. We cannot determine the whole picture without discussing these factors. Largely, this is a matter of opinion with respect to how good we are, the source of financial liability (U can cough up more money and sustain some loss if it comes to that), season strategy, whatnot. Of course, you guys have a point. But, the other side may have one though you may not agree to it.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Unlike BNOT
Click to expand...

Thanks for the chuckle, that was quite funny.

I do have to say, though, that while there is a 99% chance that practically every team on the home ooc schedule will be a dog, there is a 1% chance that someone could surprise and actually have a respectable season/rpi. Not knowing what it takes to actually schedule a team I'll withhold judgment of Tubby/Maturi for the schedule, but if I was not living hundreds of miles away and actually had season tickets I would understand your frustration.
 

Point taken.

Actually, I'd say there's a much better chance than 1% that one (or more) of these squads will have a respectable season/RPI. It just seems to me that we bank on that every season with too many of our opponents.

The truth is, I hope the home schedule is much better than it looks on paper. I would love to see a few more competitive games leading up to the Big 10 opener. Northern Illinois & Saint Joe's are the ones I'm expecting to put up a fight.
 

GoFerit said:
FarmerClone,

I am guessing that we cancelled the series with ISU because playing them doesn’t help us either financially or strategically. We need money to pay Tubby, build the new practice facility, and do whatever in the process of rebuilding. So, it is easier on us to pick lowly ranks who don’t demand much money and a commitment in return (commitment has a great financial implication, as well). Also, ISU is strategically almost useless to us as beating them doesn’t do us any good while their beating us even in Ames would be incredibly devastating in case that we become a bubble again. No incentive for us while ISU sees us as a boon both financially and strategically. That is the reality. Had they been in our shoe, ISU would have done the same.
Click to expand...

ISU beating you is only devastating if we are poor again. If we bounce back like I think we will, it will be an "acceptable" loss. Otherwise, if we are poor and you cannot beat us, why would you deserve an NCAA bid? Iowa State is playing Houston, St Louis, North Dakota State, Iowa, Northern Iowa, Drake, Duke, Bradley, California and either Northwestern or Notre Dame that I am aware of so far. If we cannot beat a majority of them, we do not deserve an NCAA birth. Why does Minnesota and Tubby have to schedule only "buy" games to try and make the Dance or to pay Tubby? ISU is finishing up our new practice facility that will open next month and our budget is much smaller than Minnesota's.

I just looked back at the 2006-07 Gopher season stats and at quick glance, the ISU game at Minnesota was over 1000 people higher in attendance than any other Gopher home non-conference games that season. Now, you could argue that instead of signing a home and home with ISU, that Tubby could just have a crappy home game each year and make more money and you would be right. But if they are going to schedule ANY home and away series, ISU makes sense for a lot of reasons. The games draw well. Travel expense is low. Possible TV money. But Tubby seems content to not schedule any home and away series and just stay at home and play patsies until the Big Ten starts. I am sure he has his reasons and it is his decision to make.
 

FarmerClone,

"ISU beating you is only devastating if we are poor again. If we bounce back like I think we will, it will be an "acceptable" loss. Otherwise, if we are poor and you cannot beat us, why would you deserve an NCAA bid? Iowa State is playing Houston, St Louis, North Dakota State, Iowa, Northern Iowa, Drake, Duke, Bradley, California and either Northwestern or Notre Dame that I am aware of so far. If we cannot beat a majority of them, we do not deserve an NCAA birth. Why does Minnesota and Tubby have to schedule only "buy" games to try and make the Dance or to pay Tubby?"

Irrelevant. My point was not about “deserving a bid” but the fact that we would have little reason to maintain the series and try to beat ISU to begin with as ISU could not offer us much. (Did ISU bounce back in the 2008-2009 season when the termination of the series was in effect?)

"ISU is finishing up our new practice facility that will open next month and our budget is much smaller than Minnesota's."

Irrelevant. One team’s financial situation has no bearing on another’s as they have different budget items, wage structure, etc.

"I just looked back at the 2006-07 Gopher season stats and at quick glance, the ISU game at Minnesota was over 1000 people higher in attendance than any other Gopher home non-conference games that season. Now, you could argue that instead of signing a home and home with ISU, that Tubby could just have a crappy home game each year and make more money and you would be right. But if they are going to schedule ANY home and away series, ISU makes sense for a lot of reasons. The games draw well. Travel expense is low. Possible TV money. But Tubby seems content to not schedule any home and away series and just stay at home and play patsies until the Big Ten starts. I am sure he has his reasons and it is his decision to make."

Yes, we are playing another home game generating significant revenue that U would have foregone by playing in Ames if we had maintained the series with ISU.

But, we could get money, more than enough to make up for the 1000 tickets, if we as a visitor played another team with our status up. As importantly, if going for a series at all, we could have had a better one with someone who can offer us much more in terms of schedule strength, team preparation, and financial reward.

In other words, playing ISU had no merit (and still has none in my opinion). Tubby and Maturi have made a decision for more home revenue instead of a series. You can argue against it. But, that is not going to prove that ISU "made sense" as we could do better than ISU if we went for a series.
 

FarmerClone,

Since you brought up “deserving a bid”……

A specific outcome of any or almost every sporting game/event is of probability. Kansas can be beaten twice by ISU this upcoming season. It is just that the likelihood of it is not significant at all. Suppose that ISU somehow beat Kansas both home and away, and Kansas still finishes atop in the conference while ISU last. Would Kansas deserve a bid into the Tourney? Your rhetorical question (“if we are poor and you cannot beat us, why would you deserve an NCAA bid?”) does not make sense, does it?

Assume that ISU do not beat the majority of the OOC opponents but put things together to finish at the top of the conference. Would ISU deserve a bid? Would you argue against it and repeat that if ISU cannot beat a majority of the OOC opponents, ISU do not deserve an NCAA birth?

Therefore, your argument of “deserving it” is not only irrelevant to my point but also meaningless in itself.

Alright… I admit I am twisting your logic here, and your argument is "not" meaningless. I am not being fair. My apology.

The reason I mentioned your beating us and its implication is that it is a possibility inherent to the game. One of jobs a coach has to perform is risk management in various forms. Scheduling is one example of it. There are many teams who deserve the bid but do not get it. Often, bubble teams are all “deserving it” in some way. But, there are a set number of bids and some criteria to which they award them. For that possibility of becoming a bubble, a coach needs to manage the risk of bad losses instead of militantly abiding by a theory of “deserving it.” Would you not agree if you were fair?

Good day...
 


FarmerClone said:
Why did Tubby decide to end the series with Iowa State FOT? Seems like that should have been an easy series to let continue and would have been as good as playing St Joesephs or whomever.

That is one said home slate and ISU had a similarly bad one last year but we did not have the talent Minnesota has this year. Pretty pathetic job by Tubby of trying to schedule solid teams to get the Gophers ready for Big Ten play.
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No earthly idea, sorry.
 

The terrible OOC schedule definitely is about raising money for the practice facility. Since we get a good crowd at OOC games either way, there isn't that much of an incentive for Tubby to schedule tougher opponents. We would either need to play on a neutral floor (less money), or do a home and away (less money) to play better teams. The fans, especially the season ticket holders, are the ones who get screwed in the process. I suppose it may hurt the fan base slightly, and maybe even recruiting a little, but I guess I'll take a few years of this crap if it's to raise money for the practice facility. We definitely need it to please Tubby and it would certainly help recruiting. Unfortunately TCF has taken money away from the practice facility, but I think we can all agree that's understandable. The new baseball stadium, on the other hand, not so much.

I'm as pissed as anyone about paying for crappy OOC games, but if it's what we need to do to keep Tubby and also help recruiting, I think it's worth it. With that said, I think this was the last year that fans should be expected to tolerate it. Having crappy leftovers for Tubby to start with and a young team made sense for easy opponents the last two years, plus financial reasons even for this year, but 4 years in a row with Tubby and now a good team, I think we've seen enough of this many terrible games. Every good team has a good number of terrible home OOC games, but they at least have some quality games, unlike us.
 

"Did ISU bounce back in the 2008-2009 season when the termination of the series was in effect?"

No we did not and the game would have been in Minneapolis and drawn better than any other non conference home game you had last year. You would have had a win over a top 200 RPI team and more money today had you played us last year.

Then this year, you would have had a road game against a team that will likely be around an RPI 100 this season. Beat us and it would have been a feather in your cap IMO.

"One of jobs a coach has to perform is risk management in various forms. Scheduling is one example of it. For that possibility of becoming a bubble, a coach needs to manage the risk of bad losses instead of militantly abiding by a theory of “deserving it."

So you are saying that Tubby is not willing to allow any chances for his team to be challenged? He will only schedule home games against teams he feels have no chance to beat him? He must have a ton of faith in his squad.

If Minnesota needs money that badly that they can only play home games unless mandated to go on the road by the Big Ten/ACC challenge, then things must be tough in Minnesota and Tubby must be costing the U a ton of cash.

Like I said, ISU had a similarly crappy home slate last year and as a season ticket holder, it flat out sucked. I feel for the Gopher fans who pay good money to sit through those home games and I kind of doubt that it is a schedule that has to be made in order for Minnesota to afford a practice facility, but if you guys believe that is the case, than so be it.

"But, that is not going to prove that ISU "made sense" as we could do better than ISU if we went for a series. "

You may well be right and if Tubby could sign a deal with Duke or Texas or UCLA or someone else, why didn't he? One fewer home game every other year would not make or break the Gophers budget.
 

FarmerClone,

I should not even reply to this. But, you don’t appear to be a troll. So, here we go for the last time….

"No we did not and the game would have been in Minneapolis and drawn better than any other non conference home game you had last year. You would have had a win over a top 200 RPI team and more money today had you played us last year. Then this year, you would have had a road game against a team that will likely be around an RPI 100 this season. Beat us and it would have been a feather in your cap IMO."

I have already explained my perspective on this in the last post. It would be senseless for us to play ISU as we either could make more money at home or could have arranged a better series with another team (say, a top 50 team who will be a bigger draw and therefore more money, ticket and tv), strength of schedule, etc.

Again, beating a top 200 or an around 100 team is meaningless for us. If we become a bubble -- may God forbid -- do you think the committee will go “hey, they beat an around 100 team!”? It won’t help. The most important and decisive factors according to the current criteria are the strength of schedule, critical wins against strong teams, and horrendous losses (a loss to an around top 100 team will count as one). (I doubt that ISU would be even an around 100 team this season.) We will have the strength of schedule due to the strength of conference and some tough away OOC games (which is one of the reasons why we can afford to take lowly OOC home opponents). That means, we only need to beat good teams or prevent bad losses, home and away. Hence, playing ISU in Ames does not help us in any way. A win means nothing. A loss could be a potential difference maker against us. It is like investing money on something that has little potential return while the risk is unjustifiably high.

Scenario 1: Let’s do simple math. Case 1: We play ISU and make more money, say worth 1000 tickets, and we make nothing by playing in Ames next year. Case 2: We play two other teams home and home, which means we keep the additional home revenue worth at least 12,000 tickets (our average OOC home attendance). Either case does not affect much in terms of the strength of schedule. But, which case offers us more money for less risk?

Scenario 2: We can easily play a series with a top 60 team for the same money (this is a bad series for us in my opinion, but just to illustrate my point). Do you think it still makes sense for us to play ISU instead of keeping the better series?

In either scenario, we have a better option than ISU. Therefore, it would be irrational to keep the series with ISU.

Maturi and Tubby opted for the home revenue and easy beat or prudence. Please, do not try to mix two issues like ISU providing more money and a better series at the same time. You are just wrong on both money and the benefit of the series.



"So you are saying that Tubby is not willing to allow any chances for his team to be challenged? He will only schedule home games against teams he feels have no chance to beat him? He must have a ton of faith in his squad."

No, you take risk when it is justified. Playing ISU in Ames is a risk that cannot be justified for us as explained above as we gain little out of beating ISU. I am sure farmers understand the concept of risk vs. potential gain. It is the same concept coaches employ in determining opponents.


"If Minnesota needs money that badly that they can only play home games unless mandated to go on the road by the Big Ten/ACC challenge, then things must be tough in Minnesota and Tubby must be costing the U a ton of cash. Like I said, ISU had a similarly crappy home slate last year and as a season ticket holder, it flat out sucked. I feel for the Gopher fans who pay good money to sit through those home games and I kind of doubt that it is a schedule that has to be made in order for Minnesota to afford a practice facility, but if you guys believe that is the case, than so be it."

If you care to discuss this irrelevance, yes, Tubby does cost us money. And we have other expenses to cover. We do not play away games this season as far as OOC is concerned except the tournament and the challenge.

Money is one important factor out of many important ones when it comes to scheduling. Maturi and Tubby opted for the schedule and money after considering all those factors. I am sure there are many things in addition to the facility that require money. Criticize it if it makes you feel better. But, this is a completely irrelevant to the point.



"You may well be right and if Tubby could sign a deal with Duke or Texas or UCLA or someone else, why didn't he? One fewer home game every other year would not make or break the Gophers budget."

Irrelevant.

Scheduling is not that simple. We cannot simply sign a top 25 team to our liking as the potential opponent has to evaluate the proposed series to their advantage, as well. If you are just asking for my opinion on this, then I will say we are not good enough to sign them right now as some of them perceive us as we would a top 70 team. On the other hand, we could have signed a series with a top 60 team on equitable terms.

Opportunities come and go. You take whatever you think is best out of the presented at the moment. It was better for us to let ISU go.

You won’t hear from me again as I see no reason to continue this although it is sort of fun to hear some odd argument. Believe as you see fit. If you really want to debate, then put yourself in our position. Once you do that, you can come up with a theory better than your complete nonsense about ISU “making sense” for us. Otherwise, continue to argue about irrelevant things like our budget, expense, not being able to sign with Duke or sort if that makes you feel better about yourself and weird argument.

Good day
 

"or could have arranged a better series with another team (say, a top 50 team who will be a bigger draw and therefore more money, ticket and tv), strength of schedule, etc."

"Scheduling is not that simple. We cannot simply sign a top 25 team to our liking as the potential opponent has to evaluate the proposed series to their advantage, as well. If you are just asking for my opinion on this, then I will say we are not good enough to sign them right now as some of them perceive us as we would a top 70 team. On the other hand, we could have signed a series with a top 60 team on equitable terms."

So which is it, you could have signed a top 50 team or you couldn't. I am guessing your stance is Tubby felt he could not sign a top 50 team so there was no sense signing a home and home with any team. They just opted to buy games then. I can understand that if the only way they are willing to leave home is for a top 50 team.

"We play ISU and make more money, say worth 1000 tickets, and we make nothing by playing in Ames next year"

This is not the way things work. Minnesota gets paid to play at ISU just like ISU gets paid to play at Minnesota. You are making it out to be a 240k (12,000 attendance times 20 bucks per person- just a rough guess) gate at home and a zero on the road. If TV gets involved then even more money comes into play. With Minnesota likely ranked and Brackins at ISU, TV would not have been out of the question.

"Playing ISU in Ames is a risk that cannot be justified for us as explained above as we gain little out of beating ISU"

Except for the fact that Tubby is recruiting the nations top 2010 player who is from Ames and goes to many Cyclone home games. Playing in Ames would have given Barnes another crack at seeing Minnesota in person.

"I doubt that ISU would be even an around 100 team this season."

According to Ken Pomeroy, ISU was at #112 last year and we were not good, yet we would have been within 10 spots of the best team according to Pomeroy that visited Minnesota last year. This year, we return four starters and add several impact players and have a full 13 players on the roster for the first time in two decades. I would guess the odds of being top 100 this year with our SOS we will have is VERY likely. And you yourself said SOS is a key part to getting selected for the NCAA tourney. Playing ISU last year or this year would have helped your SOS and your chance for the NCAA. Then again, you are right that a loss to us hurts your chances of making the Dance so best to just avoid us and play the directional schools instead. All I know is it was fun visiting with the Gopher fans that came to Ames when we played and they seemed to really enjoy the game for a series that you say does nothing for Minnesota.

This is my final post on the subject as well and I appreciate your insight.
 

"Playing ISU in Ames is a risk that cannot be justified for us as explained above as we gain little out of beating ISU"

The Gophers would gain little by playing a Big 12 team (on the road) expected to be greatly improved, and one that has a likely first-round NBA draft pick? Sorry, can't buy that at all. In fact, there would be lots to gain, and very little to lose.
 

I think Iowa St is a natural "rivalry" opponent for the Gophers.

Big 12 caliber team in close proximity to TC. And relatively easy to get W most years.
 

FarmerClone, good luck to you. Just in case, the money equation was simplified to illustrate our making more playing home as the give and take between you and us (the profit sharing or the share of gate money) more or less cancel out. TV money issue does not change much as the similar amount of money, I think, is involved either in Ames or in Mpls. But, I am not sure if playing in Ames can get a better TV contract and us getting a bigger share to come out ahead.

SS, if we lose in Ames, will it not be a bad loss? I assume you think ISU will be a rpi top 60 or so. Although I respect your knowledge in this matter, I cannot agree with you on this issue.
 

BTW, my apology, FarmerClone, for the harsh words in my previous posts. Sometimes, it is not easy to tell a real person from a troll. I often wrongly assume that outsiders are trolls.

SS, I should have said something like a rpi top 80 or so instead of 60. My opinion is that ISU will be about 9th of the Big 12 and finish below rpi 100.
 

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