Joe Christensen blog: Report shows how Minnesota's HS talent compares nationally

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Minnesota has seven: James Onwualu (Notre Dame), Keelon Brookins (Wisconsin), Malik Rucker (Iowa), Jack Cottrell (Boston College), Chris Wipson (Gophers), Tyson Reinke (Kent State) and Jackson Wilson (Air Force).

For comparison, the state of Wisconsin produced 24 FBS scholarship players this year, Iowa had eight, and Idaho had seven. So Minnesota and Idaho were tied.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/191149451.html

Go Gophers!!
 


Anyone see the update at the bottom? Looks like Herd got over there or one of the other NDSU fans. The story has nothing to do with them or any of the otehr small schools it looks at FBS scholarship guys. Based on their success in recent years these NDSU guys seem to think that any Minnesota kid that goes there was worthy of a D1 offer and didn't get it which couldn't be farther from the truth.
 

GopherHole tweet: Crazy stat per Rivals: 1 of every 124 HS players in Fla signed an FBS scholarship this year. In Minnesota it was one of every 3,403 players

Go Gophers!!
 

This is the most startling piece of the story,

"According to Rivals.com, one of every 124 high school players in Florida signed an FBS scholarship this year. In Minnesota, it was one of every 3,403 players."

I doubt very seriously that speed alone can account for this difference. There is a lot that can be done in Minnesota youth football that will result in improvements at the U of M. We lack the will.
 


Joe Christensen is obsessed with this notion and he's wrong.
2013 was an anomaly in MN

2012: 18 kids
2011: 17 kids

The truth is that MN and WI are really close in terms of talent. His point is nonsense, he looked at 1 year that was an anomaly and he won't get off that point. He's wrong.

His point is as dumb as if I said "MN just needs to recruit RBs from MN to be effective, you want proof, look at Jeff Jones". Yep, he's an anomaly. Lazy work again by the people covering Gopher athletics.
 

This is the most startling piece of the story,

"According to Rivals.com, one of every 124 high school players in Florida signed an FBS scholarship this year. In Minnesota, it was one of every 3,403 players."

I doubt very seriously that speed alone can account for this difference. There is a lot that can be done in Minnesota youth football that will result in improvements at the U of M. We lack the will.

I think comparing it to FL is definitely an issue. The Midwest (outside of Ohio) does not support HS football like they do in the South. If that was Joe's argument, he'd be spot on. However, in comparison with the other comparable states, we're similar.

The South. . .it's a different animal. HS football in MN will never be like it is there. People compare it to hockey in MN, but I think it's way more intense. I'd compare every weekend of HS football games to the High School Hockey Tournament. People follow it, people go to games with no affiliation to the schools, it's nuts.
 

This is the most startling piece of the story,

"According to Rivals.com, one of every 124 high school players in Florida signed an FBS scholarship this year. In Minnesota, it was one of every 3,403 players."

I doubt very seriously that speed alone can account for this difference. There is a lot that can be done in Minnesota youth football that will result in improvements at the U of M. We lack the will.

I would argue the other way in that with the risk of injury and concussions that eventually there will be legislation on Football or at least contact outside the season. The south is way ahead because of the year round mentality and spring ball. MN could ad spring ball or spring ball could go away for those in the south with scares like concussions. I don't see this happening though. Hockey also had a great deal to do with MN football.

If MN goes to a new years day bowl and MN kids play a key role, schools will come recruiting. Many factors at play here.
 

I would argue the other way in that with the risk of injury and concussions that eventually there will be legislation on Football or at least contact outside the season. The south is way ahead because of the year round mentality and spring ball. MN could ad spring ball or spring ball could go away for those in the south with scares like concussions. I don't see this happening though. Hockey also had a great deal to do with MN football.

If MN goes to a new years day bowl and MN kids play a key role, schools will come recruiting. Many factors at play here.


Things could certainly have changed, but in the time I was in the south, they weren't hitting in the spring. It was like a really intense passing league, training and footwork drills for the OL. If they hit, it was bags.
 



Things could certainly have changed, but in the time I was in the south, they weren't hitting in the spring. It was like a really intense passing league, training and footwork drills for the OL. If they hit, it was bags.

I saw what you saw when I lived in FL. No hitting in Spring, but plenty of work. I had a friend who was an assistant at one of the two High School teams in town. While the coaches were meeting in the summer to prep for Fall, they would bump into a large group of players working out. Not sure how legal that is/was.

That being said, there is much more to the caliber/type of athlete down south vs. here. I lived in the panhandle in a town of about 40,000. Between just those two High School teams they would pump out at least 5(if not more) D-1 players every year.
 

This is the most startling piece of the story,

"According to Rivals.com, one of every 124 high school players in Florida signed an FBS scholarship this year. In Minnesota, it was one of every 3,403 players."

I doubt very seriously that speed alone can account for this difference. There is a lot that can be done in Minnesota youth football that will result in improvements at the U of M. We lack the will.

The will is there. It's directed towards hockey instead of football.
 

In fairness, the first sentence of the article is this:

"Need more proof that Minnesota’s in-state high school football talent was down this year?"
 

Joe Christensen is obsessed with this notion and he's wrong.
2013 was an anomaly in MN

2012: 18 kids
2011: 17 kids

The truth is that MN and WI are really close in terms of talent. His point is nonsense, he looked at 1 year that was an anomaly and he won't get off that point. He's wrong.

His point is as dumb as if I said "MN just needs to recruit RBs from MN to be effective, you want proof, look at Jeff Jones". Yep, he's an anomaly. Lazy work again by the people covering Gopher athletics.

Christensen is wrong....about what? He says 2013 is an anomaly, and you say it's an anomaly. Did you read the article or what?
 



Christensen is wrong....about what? He says 2013 is an anomaly, and you say it's an anomaly. Did you read the article or what?

I did read the article and maybe I read his tone wrong, but he seemed to be agreeing with Scoggins take (he even referenced it).

Maybe I read him wrong, but if you read the tone of his article that he references and the article that Scoggins wrote, it seems to be making the argument that the amount of talent in MN is the reason why we can't compete with our contemporaries. That is what Christensen is wrong about. If he doesn't have that take, I don't know why he would reference the Scoggins article (and not differentiate). But he might have just been referencing them as another article on similar subjects.

Now, my point is that if I was going to write an article about an identical subject as someone else and take the OPPOSITE conclusion, I would differentiate the articles. If I was going to agree with them, I'd merely reference them.
 

The will is there. It's directed towards hockey instead of football.

Are people spending their springs practicing hockey in MN?? Do people in the south not play baseball and run track? What is the crossover rate of hockey players who play football? I feel like the football/basketball crossover is way more common. I don't doubt that maybe there are a few top athletes that play hockey who would otherwise focus efforts in the late fall and through the winter on improving football skills, but I think the body type and skillset of a hockey player is vastly different than a football player. We need a more serious attitude towards football, not a shift from another sport. Longer summer practices, better tie-in of systems/coaches from little league to high school (college?), and better little league options (how many true Pop Warner traveling leagues do we have).
 

These type stats or erroneous because the don't take into account the impact a winning college program has on high school recruiting.

When the gophers start consistently winning the kids it recruit will have their status elevated. Currently Minnesota high school football is under valued because the gophers suck. They suck becuase gopher players suck. They suck because the football coaches suck. They suck because the
athletic dept suck. They suck because the president suck.

Winning will make everyone better.
 

When you look at these kinds of comparisons, you have to take into account ALL other factors.

How many male high school students in Minnesota, compared to Florida, play football, compared to the population.


See, if the average town in Florida has 25,000 people, and that town has 1 high school, whereas

the average town in the state of Mn has 12,500 people, and that town has 1 high school


The town in Florida should produce TWICE as many Div 1 quality athletes, IF ALL FACTORS WERE EQUAL.


So, if you added up how many HOCKEY players the average Mn town of 12,500 produced, combined with the # of fb, bb, Bb, track, golf, WRESTLING, and all other sports, and THEN compared it with that town in Florida that had 25,000 people.


That would give us a more educated understanding of the real difference between the 2 states.


Most Minnesotans know that the state of Minnesota is the #1 supplier of college hockey players to the hockey schools throughout the country. My guess Florida ranks somewhere near the bottom in this regard.

But not alot of Minnesotans know that the state of Minnesota is also close to being the #1 supplier of college wrestlers to the wrestling schools throughout the country, at least when looking per capita. I'd be interested to know where all of the men's gymnastics come from?!


Now once you establish these more accurate #s, then you can continue the discussion by factoring in the OTHER factors, such as ACADEMIC opportunities, community priorities, opportunities in the Arts, etc..

The same can be said with any northern state basically.


Another factor is economics. Find me an extremely affluent city with little to no poverty and I don't think you will find the people of that city to be overly obsessed with football. Football is a sport where the poor can rise above the rich, where they are on an even playing field. It's a sport that an uneducated idiot can succeed and make millions. Not too many geniuses play football. Now there are always exceptions, but in general, am I way off here?!


My guess is that far more Minnesota kids grow up being encouraged to participate in a variety of sports than they do just one. I know things have changed in the last 20-30 years, but when I went to high school in the early 80's, the majority of athletes competed in 3 sports every year, a fall sport, a winter sport and a spring sport. I did CC, Wr and Golf. I had a couple good friends who played Fb, BB and Bb. Just about all of the bb players played fb, and almost all of the wrestlers played football as well. The CC guys ran track in the spring, and a couple of them played bb or wrestled in the winter, but a few of them just took the winter off. Most of the bb players played Bb in the spring, though some did track and some did golf. There wasn't alot of hockey, gym or soccer teams out where I was from, most of the towns near by were small towns, 500-5000 people.


Now another factor that I have 2 examples I draw from, I have a nephew and a close friend with a son about the same age, both were athletes and started out playing multiple sports. My nephew played football, hockey and baseball, my friends son played fb, bb and baseball and also bowled during the summer. Both ended up being on the smaller side, and so neither seemed bound for glory in the NFL. Also, neither my brother-in-law nor my friend really hoped that their sons would excel in fb, for both saw too many negatives with football. My 80 yr old father tells me now how many of his aches and pains that he suffers now, are from old fb injuries he suffered while playing hs and college fb back in the 50s. But my nephew eventually quit fb to concentrate on hockey. My friends kid played all 3 sports all the way through to graduation but only ended up a starter in bb and Bb. Neither are now playing college sports. But it was the diversity of sports played and the desire of those fathers that their boys NOT end up playing fb that seem to me to be indicative of what Minnesotans are far more often like.


Now finally, doesn't is say something that within the last decade, Minnesota based schools or schools very near Mn, have competed for and on occasion won, Div 1AA Natl Titles, Div 2 Natl Titles, and Div 3 Natl Titles?! NDSU, UM-Duluth & St Johns coming immediately to mind.
 

"Now finally, doesn't is say something that within the last decade, Minnesota based schools or schools very near Mn, have competed for and on occasion won, Div 1AA Natl Titles, Div 2 Natl Titles, and Div 3 Natl Titles?! NDSU, UM-Duluth & St Johns coming immediately to mind."

I would also had.

To me it says that Mn football is under valued. As a person that has seen both Mn high school football player and the out of state football players the U signs please trust that there is no difference; in fact I would argue that Mn has produced better football players (most don't play for the gophers)than they have recruited from he supposed football states....we just need to sign them.

Great analysis and a great read.
 

"Now finally, doesn't is say something that within the last decade, Minnesota based schools or schools very near Mn, have competed for and on occasion won, Div 1AA Natl Titles, Div 2 Natl Titles, and Div 3 Natl Titles?! NDSU, UM-Duluth & St Johns coming immediately to mind."

I would also had.

To me it says that Mn football is under valued. As a person that has seen both Mn high school football player and the out of state football players the U signs please trust that there is no difference; in fact I would argue that Mn has produced better football players (most don't play for the gophers)than they have recruited from he supposed football states....we just need to sign them.

Great analysis and a great read.

Or that said talent chooses to place importance of academics or school choice/location outright ahead of sports. St Thomas winning DIII softball, basketball, baseball, and volleyball championships speaks to this (they also played in the DIII football championship game this last year). I'm not saying those athletes could have played at top DI schools if they wanted to (although Tchida's teams at UST routinely beat the U's squad when my wife was there, in scrimmages or formal games). But as the longform piece alludes to, the number of D1 athletes in all sports from the state of MN (per capita) is probably much higher than our football participation rates - showing we aren't a 1 or 2 trick pony.
 

When I say we lack the will, I'm simply saying, "why don't we have spring practice, etc.".
 

I'd be more interested in BCS offers, versus just FBS offers. I have a feeling that the MAC and other leagues don't comb Minnesota for talent due to limited resources which does make it more likely that similarly talented kids from Minnesota end up at a NDSU as opposed to a lower level FBS school.
 

The thing that bothers me is when people say that Florida, Texas, etc have such an advantage due to spring football. Minnesota does not offer spring football, but Minnesota has some of the most open rules when it comes to coaches dealing with players. I know in Texas coaches cannot practice on football specific drills in the summer. In Minnesota a high school could have full padded practices from the last day of school up until the week before the season started with the exception of the 4th of July week.
 

I have a feeling that the MAC and other leagues don't comb Minnesota for talent due to limited resources

Silly. I'm sure the extra 135 miles that NIU (vs. NDAC) has to travel to get to MSP is such a deterrent, especially since NIU has an athletics budget of ~$20 MM, while NDAC has one of ~$15 MM. What a ridiculous take.
 




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