Big10 tourney

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book

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Are we stuck having the Big10 tourney in Indianapolis every year? We will always be at a disadvantage being so far away - at least Chicago was a nice drive. What about target center, or the dome hosting it once in awhile?
 

book said:
Are we stuck having the Big10 tourney in Indianapolis every year? We will always be at a disadvantage being so far away - at least Chicago was a nice drive. What about target center, or the dome hosting it once in awhile?
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Three more years in Indy. Just completed year two of a five-year deal there.
 

no more indy for a while! please!

it is basically giving indiana and to a lesser extent purdue home games in the big ten tourney every year which is a crock.
 

B10 Tourney

Champagne, IL is also a very short drive.
 

When you've basically got Ill /NU and Ind/Pur trading home court advantages in the BTT, how is that fair?

I've suggested before that the Big Ten is not protecting the rights of every team. There are three ways to even this out (in the order of my preference):
1) Eliminate the Big Ten Tourney. Not likely, too much money involved. But it would allow a full home and away schedule for every other BT team.
2) Rotate the site among the teams. Nobody else wants to go to Iowa or Minnesota.
3) Go the NIT route, play each game at the site of the highest seed. Logistics.

Its unfortunate that we need the Big Ten more than they need us ... and they know it.
 


Mikie S said:
When you've basically got Ill /NU and Ind/Pur trading home court advantages in the BTT, how is that fair?

I've suggested before that the Big Ten is not protecting the rights of every team. There are three ways to even this out (in the order of my preference):
1) Eliminate the Big Ten Tourney. Not likely, too much money involved. But it would allow a full home and away schedule for every other BT team.
2) Rotate the site among the teams. Nobody else wants to go to Iowa or Minnesota.
3) Go the NIT route, play each game at the site of the highest seed. Logistics.

Its unfortunate that we need the Big Ten more than they need us ... and they know it.
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and how is this any different for wisconsin, penn state, ohio state, michigan and to a lesser extent michigan state? they should all be just as annoyed (which i am guessing they are) with having to go to indiana, purdue and illinois' backyard to play the BTT year after year.
 

row19gopher said:
Champagne, IL is also a very short drive.
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That's all part of what makes Indy attractive to much of the league. You can drive Indy from:

IU (45 minutes)
PU (1 hr)
ILL (2 hr)
OSU (3 hr)
NW (3 hr)
MSU (4 hr)
Mich (4 hr)
Wis (5 hr)
IA (6 hr)

That's 9 of the 11 schools within a six-hour drive and 7 schools within about four hours. Obviously, Minneapolis can't offer that and I think ticket sales would suffer because of it. I could see it going back to Chicago again and Detroit probably would fall in line next (should the league choose to leave Indy again).
 

My problem is that it's in Indy so often. It's basically giving a homecourt advantage, a very strong one, to a select few teams every year.

I wouldn't mind seeing, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cincinnati, Cleveland, or even Pittsburgh and Minneapolis getting at least a chance to host it once. There are some great arenas in the B10 states that could be just as suitable as Indy.

In the past, the SEC has held their tourney games in New Orleans, Nashville, Atlanta, Birmingham, and Tampa. They've often rotated them around giving each school a shot at having it nearby for the fans. I think that's a fair way to manage the process. After Katrina though, they've been holding it in Atlanta fairly regularly. It was in Tampa this year.
 

My vote is for one site

Chicago or Indianapolis, pick one and stick to it.

As TJ has already pointed out, Indy makes sense because most of the schools are within driving distance. We just happen to be one of the two that isn't. Chicago also makes sense because that's where Big 10 headquarters are, there's a large alumni base of a lot of the schools and, obviously, for those looking for night life, it's one of the greatest big cities in the world. I prefer the tournament atmosphere of Indy, but if you twisted my arm, because Chicago is "drivable" from the Twin Cities that's where I'd prefer the BTT be every year.

But with Tubby Smith now behind the wheel, there's no need to worry about trivial stuff like that. The hard truth is our program just hasn't been anywhere good enough. Very soon the Gophers will be able to compete just fine with the league's upper echelon, whether in Indy, Chicago or Timbuktu. The Gophers no longer will be at a competitive disadvantage by having an overmatched coach on the sidelines. Case in point. Two years at the BTT under Tubby, record = 3-2 with 1 semifinal appearance. The prior 10 years at the BTT?. ... 6-10 with 2 semifinal appearances (including a dreadful 4-8 with 1 semifinal appearance in the Monson era).

As for the "home-court" advantage, not buying that excuse at all. How many years has Indiana won the Big Ten Tournament in Indy? How about Purdue? Neither of those two programs have exactly torn it up when the BTT was played in the Hoosier state.

I'll give folks Illinois (2 titles at the United Center). The Illini have been dynamite at the UC, going 15-5 in the seven years the tourney has been held in Chicago. But let's give the Illini credit. They've far and away been the best program in the 12-year history of the tournament, whether in Chicago or Indy. They're 22-10 overall. And it's not like when the Illini won their two titles (2003, 205) they were some kind of huge underdog riding a wave to a championship. ... they were a #2 and a #1 seed in those tournaments.

Bottom line is in 10 of the 12 years of the BTT, it was won by an upper-echelon team (a #1, #2 or #3 seed). Only twice has a #4 seed or lower won it (Michigan in 1998, Iowa in 2001), and it should be noted neither of those teams were playing in their home state.

Northwestern a home advantage in Chicago? The Wildcats are 2-7 in BTT games played at the UC and have never advanced to the semfinals.

Indiana a home advantage in Indy? The Hoosiers are 3-5 in Indy, and have never won multiple games in Conseco. Summation: 5 BTT in Indy, 0 championships, 0 title-game appearances.

Purdue a home advantage in Indy? Until winning the title this season, the Boilers had never won a BTT game at Conseco. Even with the 2009 title, the Boilers are 3-4 at Conseco. Summation: 5 BTT in Indy, 1 championship, the other 4 years they were winless.

Overall summation

(1) 12 years of Big Ten Tournament, home-state team has won 3 championships. ... Illinois in 2003 and 2005, Purdue in 2009.

(2) 5 programs have won multiple titles. ... Illinois, Iowa, Michigan State, Ohio State & Wisconsin. Only Illinois won those titles in the comfort of its home state.
 



I know this will come as flippant, and I really don't mean to be, but who cares about the advantage/disadvantage? The only time the Big 10 tourney matters in regards to the tournament that matters is when a team is a bubble team and typically those Thursday/Friday afternoon games don't illicit a great fan turnout for bubble/mediocre teams. Hopefully the Gophers program will begin to move further away from the bubble each year and the Big 10 Tourney will be a nice celebration before the NCAA tournament.

I can understand wanting the Big 10 Tourney in Chicago so that it's a closer drive, but otherwise I don't see it as a big deal. The overriding (only?) reason for this tournament is making money and it doesn't make sense to move it to Minneapolis or Detroit or Pittsburgh.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Chicago or Indianapolis, pick one and stick to it.

As TJ has already pointed out, Indy makes sense because most of the schools are within driving distance. We just happen to be one of the two that isn't. Chicago also makes sense because that's where Big 10 headquarters are and, obviously, for those looking for night life, it's one of the greatest big cities in the world. I prefer the tournament atmosphere of Indy, but if you twisted my arm, because Chicago is "drivable" from the Twin Cities that's where I'd prefer the BTT be every year.

But with Tubby Smith now behind the wheel, there's no need to worry about trivial stuff like that. The hard truth is our program just hasn't been anywhere good enough. Very soon the Gophers will be able to compete just fine with the league's upper echelon, whether in Indy, Chicago or Timbuktu. The Gophers no longer start with a competitive disadvantage because of who we have on the bench. Case in point. Two years at the BTT under Tubby, record = 3-2 with 1 semifinal appearance. The prior 10 years at the BTT?. ... 6-10 with 2 semifinal appearances (including a dreadful 4-8 with 1 semifinal appearance in the Monson era).

As for the "home-court" advantage, not buying that excuse at all. How many years has Indiana won the Big Ten Tournament in Indy? How about Purdue? Neither of those two programs have exactly torn it up when the BTT was played in the Hoosier state.

I'll give folks Illinois (2 titles at the United Center). The Illini have been dynamite at the UC, going 15-5 in the seven years the tourney has been held in Chicago. But let's give the Illini credit. They've far and away been the best program in the 12-year history of the tournament, whether in Chicago or Indy. They're 22-10 overall. And it's not like when the Illini won their two titles (2003, 205) they were some kind of huge underdog riding a wave to a championship. ... they were a #2 and a #1 seed in those tournaments.

Bottom line is in 10 of the 12 years of the BTT, it was won by an upper-echelon team (a #1, #2 or #3 seed). Only twice has a #4 seed or lower won it (Michigan in 1998, Iowa in 2001), and it should be noted neither of those teams were playing in their home state.

Northwestern a home advantage in Chicago? The Wildcats are 2-7 in BTT games played at the UC and have never advanced to the semfinals.

Indiana a home advantage in Indy? The Hoosiers are 3-5 in Indy, and have never won multiple games in Conseco. Summation: 5 BTT in Indy, 0 championships, 0 title-game appearances.

Purdue a home advantage in Indy? Until winning the title this season, the Boilers had never won a BTT game at Conseco. Even with the 2009 title, the Boilers are 3-4 at Conseco. Summation: 5 BTT in Indy, 1 championship, the other 4 years they were winless.

Overall summation

(1) 12 years of Big Ten Tournament, home-state team has won 3 championships. ... Illinois in 2003 and 2005, Purdue in 2009.

(2) 5 programs have won multiple titles. ... Illinois, Iowa, Michigan State, Ohio State & Wisconsin. Only Illinois won those titles in the comfort of its home state.
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Awesome breakdown, SS.

Also, I'd add about Illinois and the United Center (yes, they've had success there), BUT -

One of the biggest misconceptions about the University of Illinois is that it somehow located in suburban Chicago or something. Here are some facts on that:

1 - Illinois is closer to Indianapolis than it is Chicago
2 - Purdue is closer to Chicago than Illinois
3 - Wisconsin is about the same distance to Chicago as Illinois (within 15 miles)
4 - Champaign has much more in common with Terre Haute than Chicago
5 - It is a 2:20 drive from Champaign to Chicago (in other words, it isn't just down the road)

So many people believe the University of Illinois is so connected to Chicago, when, in fact, the Illini aren't that big of a deal in Chicago.

And, that 2005 BTT champ Illini team could have played the tourney in Lima, Peru and still won it. They were the best Big Ten team of the last 7-9 years, IMO.
 


"So many people believe the University of Illinois is so connected to Chicago, when, in fact, the Illini aren't that big of a deal in Chicago."

Touche. Even the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago media didn't hop on the Illini bandwagon until that magical 2005 season. Their coverage of the Big 10 and the University of Illinois in particular over the last decade or so has been p*ss poor.

I remember driving back & forth (from Rockford) to the United Center spanning most of the BTT's in Chicago and almost 100% of the time I could turn on local sports radio and there would be no mention of the BTT or the Illini. Not a thing. You wouldn't even know they were playing in Chicago. No one would call in to talk about Illini basketball, and they've pretty much always had good teams. All the talk would be about the Bears' backup offensive linemen, "this is the year for the Cubs" or Ron Santo's embarrassing begging to get into the Hall of Fame.
 



So Minneapolis is good enough to host NCAA tourney games (even though we're never allowed to play here), but not good enough to get a Big Ten Tourney every 11th year?

I understand, practically speaking, the extra distances involved for 8 of the 11 Big Ten schools, but that extra distance is imposed on us every year.

Minnesota (I think) is the most isolated major college program in the nation and we continue to be penalized for it.
 

First of all Indianapolis is an amazing place for the BTT. You get a hotel downtown and walk everywhere downtown great atmosphere. You never know who you will run into. Heck walking down the street on Saturday night I saw 3 MSU player walking down the street.

Second Conseco Fieldhouse is a great building a tribute to Indiana basketball. A great place to host the BTT.

Third before you say that Purdue has a huge homecourt advantage. At the 2008 BTT when Purdue played IU and the Illini played the Gophers on the Friday night session(when Hoff made the game winning shot after the refs gave the game to IU) the place was about 60% IU fans. Indy is IU town. Most of Indiana is IU areas except for the Region(area up by Chicago) and the small area by Purdue.

So before you go off on Indy host the BTT you should attend and see how great of show they put on Big Ten.
 

Indianapolis and Chicago are the most centralized when averaging out miles from the 11 universities. Cleveland isn't that bad and in terms of if everyone flew, Detroit isn't bad, and they could use the tourism. The Metrodome is the most isolated along with anywhere in Pennsylvania. In terms of distance, I understand what's going on. In terms of fairness, there is no question that the sights are favoring IU, Purdue, Illinois, and NW.
 

I don't see the problem with giving Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee and Minneapolis each one over the course of say a decade with the alternating years still being in Indy/Chicago. This would give every school except Penn State a year where it was reasonable 'local'.

Pardon my ignorance but do any of schools that are not 'local' really bring that many fans? It seems that no matter where you hold it, the 2 or 3 schools that are closest are going to bring most of the fans. If you had in Minneapolis it would be mostly gold and red. So what? If the ACC tournament can uproot itself from Greensboro even once and go to Tampa as they did in 2008, the Big 10 can move around a bit too.
 

howeda7 said:
I don't see the problem with giving Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee and Minneapolis each one over the course of say a decade with the alternating years still being in Indy/Chicago. This would give every school except Penn State a year where it was reasonable 'local'.

Pardon my ignorance but do any of schools that are not 'local' really bring that many fans? It seems that no matter where you hold it, the 2 or 3 schools that are closest are going to bring most of the fans. If you had in Minneapolis it would be mostly gold and red. So what? If the ACC tournament can uproot itself from Greensboro even once and go to Tampa as they did in 2008, the Big 10 can move around a bit too.
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I agree with you. There's absolutely nothing wrong in letting some other cities host the tournament. As I've said before, the SEC has rotated their tourney throughout the entire conference and it worked well. The SEC has used 5 different cities to host the tourney. The ACC has done the same. There are some great cities and great arenas in the Big 10 states that could host the tourney and I'm sure it would be just as successful as Indy or Chicago.

If Minneapolis hosted it, it would be full of Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota fans. I really doubt there'd be a loss of revenue because it was held in Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Cleveland, or Detroit.
 

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