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bga1 said:
Wisconsin gets hit hard with the loss of Taylor. Purdue gets hit heavy. OSU is going to lose Buford aad Sullinger. I wouldn't be surprised if Illinois loses the big man. Penn State is Penn State, Iowa loses Gatens and Cartwright, Nebraska -see Penn State, Northwestern loses Shurna and MSU loses Green. We lose Ralph and I'll say right now that Walker will be better than Ralph as will EE. Indiana and Michigan lose virtually nothing so they will be strong no doubt.

If the Gophers are on the outside looking in with basically everybody back, then it's time for Tubby to pack up and exit.
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Wisconsin will be fine. Taylor is a big loss, but the forward dolts from Minnesota will be seniors and they'll have a number of other upperclassmen with experience (Ryan Evans, although he's the worst shooter I've seen in my life, Gasser, Brust).. not to mention freshman Kaminsky has gotten some experience this year, Uthoff (redshirting) could be a big time player for them and 2012 Dekker is a stud.

You could go on and on with each team like I just did with Wisconsin - OSU could just play its bench against Minnesota and win handily.

Gophers don't have much of a prayer of being a top 5 team in the Big Ten next year - it's just (again, like it was this year) a question of whether they'll wind up in 7th and be on the right side of the bubble, or if they'll be in 10th/11th and stay home again.

That's where things are at and that's where things will be next year unless there is a significant change in game strategy and it pans out.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Wisconsin will be fine. Taylor is a big loss, but the forward dolts from Minnesota will be seniors and they'll have a number of other upperclassmen with experience (Ryan Evans, although he's the worst shooter I've seen in my life, Gasser, Brust).. not to mention freshman Kaminsky has gotten some experience this year, Uthoff (redshirting) could be a big time player for them and 2012 Dekker is a stud.

You could go on and on with each team like I just did with Wisconsin - OSU could just play its bench against Minnesota and win handily.

Gophers don't have much of a prayer of being a top 5 team in the Big Ten next year - it's just (again, like it was this year) a question of whether they'll wind up in 7th and be on the right side of the bubble, or if they'll be in 10th/11th and stay home again.

That's where things are at and that's where things will be next year unless there is a significant change in game strategy and it pans out.
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Wisconsin would not have beaten us this year without Taylor. Losing Taylor is a big, big deal. Dekker is a frosh and Bo's history with Frosh is that they are better as Sophs. I'm not saying they will be bad- Bo gets it done but their talent is getting thin. I see no reason we can't go toe to toe with Wisky next year. Remember, I'm not touting us I'm saying that I expect a top level coaching job from Tubby, I expect him to get the solid core we have to another level. I'm saying that there's plenty enough talent here to more than just hang on next year.
 

bga1 said:
Wisconsin would not have beaten us this year without Taylor. Losing Taylor is a big, big deal. Dekker is a frosh and Bo's history with Frosh is that they are better as Sophs. I'm not saying they will be bad- Bo gets it done but their talent is getting thin. I see no reason we can't go toe to toe with Wisky next year. Remember, I'm not touting us I'm saying that I expect a top level coaching job from Tubby, I expect him to get the solid core we have to another level. I'm saying that there's plenty enough talent here to more than just hang on next year.
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I understand what you're saying, I simply happen to disagree. It's not fun to admit, but Wisconsin basketball is in a different place than Minnesota basketball is - it's been that way for a decade+ and will again be next year.

I get the generalization about Ryan's history with freshmen, but Dekker is very good. You can point out plenty of examples where supposedly 'good' freshmen were kept off the floor their first year on campus (including this year and Uthoff), but you can also point out a Josh Gosser, who played a ton as a true freshman and was extremely efficient when used.
 

Sam Dekker is the type of player I expect to make an immediate impact. There isn't really an area of his game that he needs time to refine before he's able to contribute at the next level like some players. He's as versatile as they come. Very good at just about everything and he seems like a bright kid too. There was a time when I was crossing my fingers that Tokoto wouldn't go to the Badgers because I didn't want the Gophers to have to face him. Wasn't too concerned about Dekker. Interesting how things change with time.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
I understand what you're saying, I simply happen to disagree. It's not fun to admit, but Wisconsin basketball is in a different place than Minnesota basketball is - it's been that way for a decade+ and will again be next year.

I get the generalization about Ryan's history with freshmen, but Dekker is very good. You can point out plenty of examples where supposedly 'good' freshmen were kept off the floor their first year on campus (including this year and Uthoff), but you can also point out a Josh Gosser, who played a ton as a true freshman and was extremely efficient when used.
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I am expecting Smith to do a Bo Ryan type coaching job next year. I'd say we have better talent than Wisky next year. Time to do something with it.
 


Wisconsin will certainly have some talent to work with even with Taylor gone, but the one question mark will be point guard. Is George Marshall ready to take over? How much has he improved during his redshirt year? Can one of their other guards succesfully shift over to the point? Who knows. They will go as far as their point guard(s) is/are able take them, but either way there is no doubt in my mind that the Gophers will be able to compete with them if everyone returns. No doubt at all.

As far as other teams in the Big Ten go, Indiana and Michigan will be very, very good on paper. If they're able to put it all together and play to their talent level they could both be top 10 teams. Other than them, I don't see a team the Gophers can't compete with. I know it's early, but if I had to project next years standings based on the talent everyone has coming in and going out (assuming guys like Sullinger and Leonard will be gone), here's what it would look like:

1. Michigan
2. Indiana
3. Michigan State
4. Ohio State
5. Minnesota
6. Wisconsin
7. Iowa
8. Illinois
9. Purdue
10. Northwestern
11. Penn State
12. Nebraska

I know some will disagree, but if the Gophers stay healthy and everyone expected to come back comes back, I think we'll be just fine.
 

G.O.T.R. I agree, based upon what can reasonably be projected, that looks just about right.

I think Mo will make a huge difference for MN next year.


BTW, I project D. Thomas to compete with Zeller for player of the year next year in the B10, both from the Hoosier state.
 


MinnesotaBoiler99 said:
This is laughable.
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How do the Boilers plan to replace their top 4 scorers this year in Hummel, Smith, Jackson, and Barlow? I guess I don't follow Purdue closely, but you must know something I don't for a 9th place prediction to be laughable. Where would you place them?
 



bga1 said:
Wisconsin gets hit hard with the loss of Taylor. Purdue gets hit heavy. OSU is going to lose Buford aad Sullinger. I wouldn't be surprised if Illinois loses the big man. Penn State is Penn State, Iowa loses Gatens and Cartwright, Nebraska -see Penn State, Northwestern loses Shurna and MSU loses Green. We lose Ralph and I'll say right now that Walker will be better than Ralph as will EE. Indiana and Michigan lose virtually nothing so they will be strong no doubt.

If the Gophers are on the outside looking in with basically everybody back, then it's time for Tubby to pack up and exit. I think he can get this done with what he has. I'm not counting on anything from the recruits so that would be a bonus. This will be a team that will have good size, good experience, good athleticism, good shooting and a solid bench. They will be stronger on the boards, and they will have better more experienced guard play than this squad that has lost a bunch of close games. I don't see any team that will be coming into the Barn that we should not be able to beat.

Time for some expectations.
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+1
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Wisconsin will certainly have some talent to work with even with Taylor gone, but the one question mark will be point guard. Is George Marshall ready to take over? How much has he improved during his redshirt year? Can one of their other guards succesfully shift over to the point? Who knows. They will go as far as their point guard(s) is/are able take them, but either way there is no doubt in my mind that the Gophers will be able to compete with them if everyone returns. No doubt at all.

As far as other teams in the Big Ten go, Indiana and Michigan will be very, very good on paper. If they're able to put it all together and play to their talent level they could both be top 10 teams. Other than them, I don't see a team the Gophers can't compete with. I know it's early, but if I had to project next years standings based on the talent everyone has coming in and going out (assuming guys like Sullinger and Leonard will be gone), here's what it would look like:

1. Michigan
2. Indiana
3. Michigan State
4. Ohio State
5. Minnesota
6. Wisconsin
7. Iowa
8. Illinois
9. Purdue
10. Northwestern
11. Penn State
12. Nebraska

I know some will disagree, but if the Gophers stay healthy and everyone expected to come back comes back, I think we'll be just fine.
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+1
 

Gopher Warrior said:
No, I'm not assuming Rodney leaves. In terms of "challenging" I am talking about team success (in this case, winning enough to make it into the NCAA tournament).

If you look across the conference, there does not appear to be many teams the Gophers should leapfrog between years. The question isn't, "will Dre Hollins improve next year?", the question is, "do the Gophers look like a tournament team in 2012-13?" and taking into account what the Gophers as well as other teams in the conference will probably look like in a year, my answer is no - it'll be a challenging year. They'll need to exceed expectations to make the tourney. Not out of the question, but next year's team projects to be similar to this year's team - on the outside looking in, just as they have been for the entirety of this season.
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Every year is a challenging year in the B1G. Who besides you projects them to be similar to this years team?
 

howieramone said:
Every year is a challenging year in the B1G. Who besides you projects them to be similar to this years team?
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Don't know who else shares my thoughts on this, but I'd think most reasonable people who can think objectively would. If I could find people who disagree & like to make an occasional wager, life would be complete.
 



Gopher Warrior said:
. ... If I could find people who disagree & like to make an occasional wager, life would be complete.
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Which reminds me GW, how much was our bet (prior to the season) about the Gophers' final place/seeding in the Big Ten standings? I know the conditions were:

#1 to #5 = I win
#6 to # 8 = push
#9 to #12 = you win

Sure looks like you're going to win our bet, but I don't remember the amount.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Don't know who else shares my thoughts on this, but I'd think most reasonable people who can think objectively would. If I could find people who disagree & like to make an occasional wager, life would be complete.
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I think a reasonable, objective person would project them finishing nowhere lower than 7th. If you think Wisconsin will finish higher I won't argue with you, I'm just not convinced that they are going to have good point guard play, but who knows. I doubt Iowa finishes ahead of us for the same reason, but if they get good point guard play they could actually be pretty good too. I really don't see how an objective person can pick any of the other teams (excluding Wisconsin and Iowa) I listed below the Gophers to finish higher than us though. Who do you think is going to finish ahead of us?
 

As far as other teams in the Big Ten go, Indiana and Michigan will be very, very good on paper. If they're able to put it all together and play to their talent level they could both be top 10 teams. Other than them, I don't see a team the Gophers can't compete with. I know it's early, but if I had to project next years standings based on the talent everyone has coming in and going out (assuming guys like Sullinger and Leonard will be gone), here's what it would look like:
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I'm also curious about this. It seems several teams are losing very, very, significant players. Gatens/Iowa, Taylor/Wisconsin, Buford/Sullinger/Ohio State, Shurna/Northwestern, I'd be shocked if at least one Michigan player other than Douglas/Novak doesn't try and make the leap to the NBA, perhaps Leonard/Illinois, Hummel/Jackson/Smith with Purdue, Green/Michigan St. and certainly a few others I'm sure I'm leaving out.

Usually we have a few teams losing major players but I can't think of a time recently that so many teams will lose significant players. ( I could be wrong! )

I think next year could be fairly interesting to see who's going to step up and fill some of the roles these guys have had.
 

Reserve said:
I'm also curious about this. It seems several teams are losing very, very, significant players. Gatens/Iowa, Taylor/Wisconsin, Buford/Sullinger/Ohio State, Shurna/Northwestern, I'd be shocked if at least one Michigan player other than Douglas/Novak doesn't try and make the leap to the NBA, perhaps Leonard/Illinois, Hummel/Jackson/Smith with Purdue, Green/Michigan St. and certainly a few others I'm sure I'm leaving out.

Usually we have a few teams losing major players but I can't think of a time recently that so many teams will lose significant players. ( I could be wrong! )

I think next year could be fairly interesting to see who's going to step up and fill some of the roles these guys have had.
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Purdue, Ohio State, and Illinois are the two teams who stand to lose good players (assuming Leonard leaves) without really bringing in anything of significance to replace them. Purdue has some solid guys coming in, but not good enough in my opinion to take over right away as freshman and perform well enough to be in the top half of the standings. Ohio State will have enough left over to still be a good team, but I don't know if I can say the same about the other two.

Personally I don't see anyone from Michigan leaving for the NBA and they bring in a couple very, very good players in McGary and Glenn Robinson III. They should be the team to beat unless they just can't find a way to play together. You could also make an argument for Indiana as they bring in an even better recruiting class all around. Cracking the top 5 will be tough for the Gophers, but I just can't see why anyone would project lower than a 7th place finish. Between 5-7 seems more than realistic to me as long as everyone returns and stays healthy.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Which reminds me GW, how much was our bet (prior to the season) about the Gophers' final place/seeding in the Big Ten standings? I know the conditions were:

#1 to #5 = I win
#6 to # 8 = push
#9 to #12 = you win

Sure looks like you're going to win our bet, but I don't remember the amount.
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A gazillion! Honestly, I'm not positive but I think we only bet $5. I'm looking forward to using it for a pop (with a quarter leftover to play with).

GophersOnTheRise said:
I really don't see how an objective person can pick any of the other teams (excluding Wisconsin and Iowa) I listed below the Gophers to finish higher than us though. Who do you think is going to finish ahead of us?
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Of the 7 teams you think Minnesota will finish ahead of, I can see good reasons for believing the Gophers will beat out Nebraska and Penn State. Northwestern and Purdue are a tough call... Illinois and Iowa I'd give the nod to, although not by a ton. Wisconsin? Not even close.

It's like I said... could be a 7th place team that makes the tourney... but could be a 10th/11th place team that stays at home.. lots of 'OK' teams, just like this year.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
A gazillion! Honestly, I'm not positive but I think we only bet $5. I'm looking forward to using it for a pop (with a quarter leftover to play with).



Of the 7 teams you think Minnesota will finish ahead of, I can see good reasons for believing the Gophers will beat out Nebraska and Penn State. Northwestern and Purdue are a tough call... Illinois and Iowa I'd give the nod to, although not by a ton. Wisconsin? Not even close.

It's like I said... could be a 7th place team that makes the tourney... but could be a 10th/11th place team that stays at home.. lots of 'OK' teams, just like this year.
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Curious Warrior- do you think Wisconsin has better talent and experience on their roster next year than the Gophers?
 

bga1 said:
Curious Warrior- do you think Wisconsin has better talent and experience on their roster next year than the Gophers?
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I understand why you are asking the question, but roster comparisons of these two teams are only semi relevant. If Bo and Tubby are both back, Wisconsin will finish ahead of the gophers.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Of the 7 teams you think Minnesota will finish ahead of, I can see good reasons for believing the Gophers will beat out Nebraska and Penn State. Northwestern and Purdue are a tough call... Illinois and Iowa I'd give the nod to, although not by a ton. Wisconsin? Not even close.

It's like I said... could be a 7th place team that makes the tourney... but could be a 10th/11th place team that stays at home.. lots of 'OK' teams, just like this year.
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Strongly disagree on Northwestern and Purdue being a tough call, but I'm not going to argue. If Leonard comes back I understand giving them the nod, if not it'll be a tough call. They'll certailny still have talented guards as long as they all return. They seem to underachieve even more than the Gophers do though so we'll see. How do you feel about Wisconsin's point guard play next year? Who do you think will be their primary guy? I just find that to be too much of a concern to say it's "not even close" in regards to them finishing higher in the standings. If their point guard play exceeds my expectations, which it could, then I agree that they will likely finish in the top half of the standings.
 

jamiche said:
I understand why you are asking the question, but roster comparisons of these two teams are only semi relevant. If Bo and Tubby are both back, Wisconsin will finish ahead of the gophers.
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Warrior says it won't be close between Wisky and Minnesota. I actually think Minnesota has slightly better talent for next year than Wisky considering the departure of Taylor. I think Bo is indeed a better coach than Tubby. So you and I agree there. I'm okay that Bo is a better coach than Tubby- because Bo in terms of coaching players (not recruiting) is a top 5 in the country coach. However, I'm not okay with Tubby being so far below Bo that he can't compete -even with better talent than Bo has. Therefore- and this is my point- I am expecting Tubby to have a good enough coaching performance to take this talent to 10 or 11 wins and about a 5th place finish next year. Note the word- expecting. I'm not predicting this, I'm not betting on it. I'm expecting it. That's my standard for next year. If he meets it- he makes the grade for me. I am saying that there's enough talent here to do that- providing we get a good coaching job from Tubby.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Strongly disagree on Northwestern and Purdue being a tough call, but I'm not going to argue. If Leonard comes back I understand giving them the nod, if not it'll be a tough call. They'll certailny still have talented guards as long as they all return. They seem to underachieve even more than the Gophers do though so we'll see. How do you feel about Wisconsin's point guard play next year? Who do you think will be their primary guy? I just find that to be too much of a concern to say it's "not even close" in regards to them finishing higher in the standings. If their point guard play exceeds my expectations, which it could, then I agree that they will likely finish in the top half of the standings.
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I think the question for Illinois has nothing to do with Leonard and has everything to do with Weber.
 

bga1 said:
Warrior says it won't be close between Wisky and Minnesota. I actually think Minnesota has slightly better talent for next year than Wisky considering the departure of Taylor. I think Bo is indeed a better coach than Tubby. So you and I agree there. I'm okay that Bo is a better coach than Tubby- because Bo in terms of coaching players (not recruiting) is a top 5 in the country coach. However, I'm not okay with Tubby being so far below Bo that he can't compete -even with better talent than Bo has. Therefore- and this is my point- I am expecting Tubby to have a good enough coaching performance to take this talent to 10 or 11 wins and about a 5th place finish next year. Note the word- expecting. I'm not predicting this, I'm not betting on it. I'm expecting it. That's my standard for next year. If he meets it- he makes the grade for me. I am saying that there's enough talent here to do that- providing we get a good coaching job from Tubby.
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I think my expectation for next year is at least 9-9 in conference. Improve that home record. Plus win 1-2 (or maybe even 3!) games in the NCAA tourney. You won't find me calling for Tubby's head during the regular season, but if by the time it is all said and done they don't win even one game in the tournament it is time to start wondering. I don't even care if we are a bubble team. Just get in and win. Winning NCAA games can cure any regular season record, any transfer, anything. Do that and I will say extend Tubby for some time. We haven't won a tournament game in 21 Years (!!!!!!!!!!!!) do that Tubby, and I'd say you deserve some credit. Win 2 and you did a pretty darn good job. Win in the tournament Tubby and people will feel a lot better no matter how bad your regular season B1G record could be.
 

I had a friend point out another angle to helping or hurting recruiting-- it seems like Flip is at as many High school games as Tubby-- does that help in case he steps in after Tubby?
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
I had a friend point out another angle to helping or hurting recruiting-- it seems like Flip is at as many High school games as Tubby-- does that help in case he steps in after Tubby?
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I would say no, especially because it has only happened recently.
 

bga1 said:
Warrior says it won't be close between Wisky and Minnesota. I actually think Minnesota has slightly better talent for next year than Wisky considering the departure of Taylor. I think Bo is indeed a better coach than Tubby. So you and I agree there. I'm okay that Bo is a better coach than Tubby- because Bo in terms of coaching players (not recruiting) is a top 5 in the country coach. However, I'm not okay with Tubby being so far below Bo that he can't compete -even with better talent than Bo has. Therefore- and this is my point- I am expecting Tubby to have a good enough coaching performance to take this talent to 10 or 11 wins and about a 5th place finish next year. Note the word- expecting. I'm not predicting this, I'm not betting on it. I'm expecting it. That's my standard for next year. If he meets it- he makes the grade for me. I am saying that there's enough talent here to do that- providing we get a good coaching job from Tubby.
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If the past is the best predictor of the future, there will be turmoil and uncertainty surrounding the roster and the staff, effectively preventing the team from achieveing its potential. Armelin is likely gone which I consider a significant loss. Mbakwe and Rodney both have kids and need to make money, so I think they will head off to Europe. Unless he can find a Vincent Grier this spring, nothing that has happened to date under Tubby leads me to believe that a fifth place finish is going to happen next year. I hope that you are right and I am wrong.
 

bga1 said:
Warrior says it won't be close between Wisky and Minnesota. I actually think Minnesota has slightly better talent for next year than Wisky considering the departure of Taylor. I think Bo is indeed a better coach than Tubby. So you and I agree there. I'm okay that Bo is a better coach than Tubby- because Bo in terms of coaching players (not recruiting) is a top 5 in the country coach. However, I'm not okay with Tubby being so far below Bo that he can't compete -even with better talent than Bo has. Therefore- and this is my point- I am expecting Tubby to have a good enough coaching performance to take this talent to 10 or 11 wins and about a 5th place finish next year. Note the word- expecting. I'm not predicting this, I'm not betting on it. I'm expecting it. That's my standard for next year. If he meets it- he makes the grade for me. I am saying that there's enough talent here to do that- providing we get a good coaching job from Tubby.
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I am expecting it as well.
 

jamiche said:
If the past is the best predictor of the future, there will be turmoil and uncertainty surrounding the roster and the staff, effectively preventing the team from achieveing its potential. Armelin is likely gone which I consider a significant loss. Mbakwe and Rodney both have kids and need to make money, so I think they will head off to Europe. Unless he can find a Vincent Grier this spring, nothing that has happened to date under Tubby leads me to believe that a fifth place finish is going to happen next year. I hope that you are right and I am wrong.
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Just to clarify- If we finish 5th or higher, I won't be right or wrong. I will just have had my expectations met and will be satisfied to continue with the Tubby years. I have no clarity as to what is ahead other than my expectations going forward.
 

bga1 said:
Just to clarify- If we finish 5th or higher, I won't be right or wrong. I will just have had my expectations met and will be satisfied to continue with the Tubby years. I have no clarity as to what is ahead other than my expectations going forward.
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And what will your response be when Minnesota does not finish 5th or higher next season? Will you no longer be "satisfied to continue with the Tubby years"?
 

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