Souhan: We're blinded by culture of big-time college sports

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pretty hypocritical piece, considering its his job to put sports on a pedastol
 

I like sports (a lot), but I don't disagree with what Souhan is writing here. I agree with bemidjigopher that it's odd (and maybe hypocritical) that a guy who writes about sports and contributes to the athletic equivalent of the military-industrial complex would write something like this. Maybe Souhan felt it was the day to be a scold.
 

On the other hand, MAYBE it is the fan's tendency to build the damn coaches up into little god status that is as much of the problem as anything. The fans DEMAND that the program has to win. The booster clubs raise money to "grease the machinery..." and hold gatherings to worship at the feet of their little god coaches.

Of course the media is guilty as sin in the making of idol status for the damn coaches. And, so are the idiotic a.d.propaganda artists who promise "...tubby-like..." hires to the lemming-like blindly loyal, expectation-driven fan bases who can't quite understand why their favorite program doesn't ALWAYS compete with the ohiostate...alabama...lsu...usc...texas...oklahoma types of programs who pay their 'big-god-like" damn coaches 3 million plus a season.

Look no further than yourself damn fan. IF you EXPECT...DEMAND...DON'T CARE HOW IT HAPPENS being able to compete for championships with the ohio state...nebraska...michigan...penn state...michigan state types of teams. You are just as guilty as the damn coaches, sports media people, sponsors, networks, prexys of the colleges/universities and the ncaa. Any of us who support our college programs are trying to make our damn coaches be at least "little-god..." status or better. You and I are guilty as sin in this process. We buy the tickets. You and I need to look inwards before we try to blame anyone else.

How STUPID could any of us have been to allow that ad of ours to get by with a promise to bring a "tubby-like-hire" in as our damn football little-god-like idol? How stupid did he think we were? How stupid were we? How STUPID is this whole "little-god-status-thing..." any way?

At some point in time it will ALL come crashing down. The fantasy high school recruiting rankings will be extended and there will be much discussion on fantasy football recruiting boards about te five-star recruits from the Dallas-Area third grade Elementary School League. Tom Lemming will be ranking the "can't miss class of 6 year olds..." And rivals will tease fantasy fantasy football recruiting freaks with the four year old most under rated players . Eventually, with the human genome and genetic testing/counseling programs singles will bring computer dating to new levels as they seek the perfect mates with which to insure 5 star fetus potential! And, Lemming...and rivals will be there and will sell it ALL to you fantasy fantasy recruiting freaks.

And the "big-gods...those damn coaches at the ohio state...alabama...usc...oregon...lsu...type programs will be DEMANDING 7 to 10 million plus incentives...and they will get it...

Sometime between now and then it is all going to come crashing down. The Games won't need to be played. It will all be done with interactive video competitions for "fantasy fantasy ncaa college football championship series..." that sweep the nation. There will be web-sites dedicated to the ONLY thing that really matters....fantasy football recruiting and ncaa fantasy national championship play-off fantasy football.

The end is near... and then the fans will FINALLY have complete control of EVERYTHING. But...you and I...we have only OURSELVES to blame...

Once there was a time when you just were a loyal fan and you went to watch your team play and you walked back on the beautiful college campus setting and enjoyed the experience of college football. Sometimes your team won. Some seasons, your team did pretty well...some seasons...not so well. But, you understood that was the way things went in a pretty competetive conference like the Big Ten Conference. The deck was pretty much stacked against you...but...your team was your team. It was a simpler time. It was a nice time.

Those days are gone...

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Don't disagree with you a bit Wren. Souhan could have taken it one step further and put us, the fans, in the mix as well.
 


What do you expect when a Machine like the NCAA makes over half a billion dollars a year? Remember a while back when the NCAA accidentely leaked some financial records that showed total revenues of over 600 million dollars in 2008.

When that kind of money is on the line, its no wonder big-revenue schools like Penn State will take reprehensible action cover things up like a Jerry Sandusky roaming around on your campus with 10-year olds. They fear to lose their football money-making gravy train. It's not absolute power that corrupts as much as fear of killing the golden goose.
 

Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
What do you expect when a Machine like the NCAA makes over half a billion dollars a year? Remember a while back when the NCAA accidentely leaked some financial records that showed total revenues of over 600 million dollars in 2008.

When that kind of money is on the line, its no wonder big-revenue schools like Penn State will take reprehensible action cover things up like a Jerry Sandusky roaming around on your campus with 10-year olds. They fear to lose their football money-making gravy train. It's not absolute power that corrupts as much as fear of killing the golden goose.
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Good point. Souhan didn't close the circle on that argument either, but your point plays into Wren's in that this is a huge business now funded with big-time fan money and that money comes from fans, many of whom may prefer winning at all costs as opposed to having some measure of perspective.

I'm as a big a hypocrite at a level (although I don't condone cheating, horrifying actions against perpetrated against young children as in the Penn State example, etc.), because I fork over my money on and spend my time following this massive industry.
 

imthewalrus said:
On the other hand, MAYBE it is the fan's tendency to build the damn coaches up into little god status that is as much of the problem as anything.
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I think we're all thankful that you've finally realized how unnerving your obsession with Glen Mason was. Imagine if you built him up to big god status.
 

maximus: when you dudes/dudettes quit trying to put the clown brwster above Mason and when you FINALLY quit trying to blame Mason for that brewster clown's incredible FAILURE his first year and then again at the beginning of his FINAL year maybe we can talk. Until then, bring it maximus... AND, my biggest complaint was prexy b and b(s)jm. They brought the incompetent brewster in... It's totally up to you and your kind maximus. I can live with which ever way it goes...

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Walrus, I hate to point this out, but there is a lot of hypocisy in your posts. I never read your complete diatribes, but from what I have read; the theme that comes out (over and over) is: "the only thing that matters is Big 10 wins". Then according to you, boosters, coaches, administrators, and the NCAA could do whatever they want as long as it's in the name of "Big 10 Wins".

The saying about stones and glass houses comes to mind.
 

imthewalrus said:
maximus: when you dudes/dudettes quit trying to put the clown brwster above Mason and when you FINALLY quit trying to blame Mason for that brewster clown's incredible FAILURE his first year and then again at the beginning of his FINAL year maybe we can talk. Until then, bring it maximus... AND, my biggest complaint was prexy b and b(s)jm. They brought the incompetent brewster in... It's totally up to you and your kind maximus. I can live with which ever way it goes...

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Who in the hell has ever put Brewster above Mason? Ever? Seriously, cite even one instance of this occurring.
 

If you haven't hanged, drawn and quartered Brewster, apparently it is the same as putting him above Mason.
 

Not sure Souhan is being hypocritical, he spends most of his writing pointing out what is wrong with sports and the individuals in sports.
 



Finally wren we agree on something

imthewalrus said:
On the other hand, MAYBE it is the fan's tendency to build the damn coaches up into little god status that is as much of the problem as anything.
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I assume you are talking about Mason. LOL - What a phoney you are!
 

The scandals will just keep on coming. Programs that do well develop a rabid fan base and from that comes mad money. The pressure builds to keep it going and then something illegal happens. The natural tendency is to try to bury it so as not to damage the program (and the money tree), but it invariably gets uncovered. I really admired Jo Pa and (don't boo) Tressel too as guys who did things right and produced honest excellence. It all turns out to be a sham and now I believe in nothing. What I am really afraid of is that the stigma of these scandals will start to evaporate. They can cheat all they want down in Florida and it's really not the big of a deal any more. Maybe they should just pay these players and call it what it is - a professional feeder league. D1 is great, entertaining football and I love it, but it doesn't represent what it is supposed to. The real student athletes - collegial guys, homeboys, who say, "lets play football and go beat those guys from the other school and then we'll get drunk afterward" - play D2 or D3.

I predict a scandal at Wisconsin in the next 3 years.
 

I should add - I hope and believe that Coach K and his teams will be the exception. Go Gophers!
 


TrapperDoo said:
I predict a scandal at Wisconsin in the next 3 years.
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Harpies descending in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

Agree with much of the rest of your post TrapperDoo. I was less fooled by Paterno than Tressel, but I was fooled nonetheless. As is the case with a lot of things in the society, once they get big and money gets involved for the wrong reasons, the enterprise becomes polluted.

I knew (maybe met and conversed with is more accurate) a fair number of Gopher players in the 1970s and 1980s and the approach you ascribe to D2 and D3 today wasn't that dissimilar to what D1 (at least the way it seemed at the U) was then. Great athletes who loved to play, but didn't mind tipping a few with whomever after the on-field action was over. They were under a much less powerful microscope than kids today.
 

Rescooter said:
Walrus, I hate to point this out, but there is a lot of hypocisy in your posts. I never read your complete diatribes, but from what I have read; the theme that comes out (over and over) is: "the only thing that matters is Big 10 wins". Then according to you, boosters, coaches, administrators, and the NCAA could do whatever they want as long as it's in the name of "Big 10 Wins".

The saying about stones and glass houses comes to mind.
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Let's see now rescooter: you claim that you don't read what I have said about the need for Big Ten wins...I'll take you at your word that you don't read what I say...that's cool. But, how the hell can you comment on what you assume I say???????? When you only read "part?" Which "parts do you read????? What parts don't you read?

Here is what I ALWAYS say is necessary for the University of Minnesota Football Coach to survive and be competetive:

1. Run a completely honest and clean program.

2. Graduate ever increasing numbers of student athlete football playes.

3. Win ENOUGH Big Ten Football games to be competetive. Without enough Big Ten Football wins a coach can NOT survive in the Big Ten Conference and can NOT survive at the University of Minnesota. Big Ten wins are the true barometer of how Big Ten Coaches rank against other Big Ten Coaches. Big Ten wins are the true barometer of how the University of Minnesota Football Program ranks against all other Big Ten Programs.

Apples to apples. It's very simple. It is very clean. It demands honesty and integrity with the football coach. It demands that student athletes graduate at ever increasing rates.

Now, rescooter: what the HELL do you have against my theme???????? How DARE you comment on what I say when you claim that you don't read all of what I say???????

According to ME: I don't care what other program's boosters, coaches, administrators do because there is NOTHING I can do to change what they do. BUT: I demand that the U of M football Program needs to be run completely honestly, by all the rules and that it aspires to graduate ever increasing numbers of STUDENT ATHLETES. And, I call for the program to win at least enough Big Ten games to truely be competetive within the Big Ten Conference. On average, that would mean at least 3 to 5 Big Ten wins per season. A 3.5 to 4.0 average would be a range that I believe the U of M needs to be at year in and year out. Obviously, some years there may be less than 3 Big Ten wins...and some years there would need to be 5 or more Big Ten wins. Hopefully, once in a while the program could make a run at a Big Ten Championship.

So, Big Ten wins are crucial and criitical for the Gophers football program to be successful. It is also essential that the program needs to be run with complete honesty and within all the rules by the coaches and administration. AND, the program and the coaches need to recruit and coach student ahletes who begin graduating from the U of M in ever increasing numbers.

Now, read that rescooter. Then NEVER read anything I write again if that is your wish.

How the HELL can you believe you know what I am saying when you don't read all of what I write rescooter? You are either a liar or a dirty trick playing little dude or dudette, which ever your case may be...

; 0 )
 


Clueless in Winona

wren - Not only do you lack comprehension, you don't seem to understand how many people are pointing out what a fool you are. It called delusion wren and you have it really bad.
 

Somebody lend killjoy their cellphone so that he can call someone who cares.

The way to improve University of Minnesota Football:
!. Run an honest and clean football program at the University of Minnesota.
2. Graduate ever increasing numbers of student athletes in the football program @ the U.
3. Win a hell of a lot more Big Ten Football games than that brewster clown did.

And, as always and until it is done: De-bus and ditch b(s)jm! Fire macturi NOW! Anyone who supports the retention of macturi is the fool, killjoy.
And that's the way it is at 6:48pm on Sunday, December 4, 2011...

; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
Somebody lend killjoy their cellphone so that he can call someone who cares.

The way to improve University of Minnesota Football:
!. Run an honest and clean football program at the University of Minnesota.
2. Graduate ever increasing numbers of student athletes in the football program @ the U.
3. Win a hell of a lot more Big Ten Football games than that brewster clown did.

And, as always and until it is done: Debus and ditch b(s)jm! Fire macturi NOW! Anyone who supports the retention of macturi is the fool, killjoy.
And that's the way it is at 6:48pm on Sunday, December 4, 2011...

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I'd say winning more Big Ten Football games than Mason did would be success. The equivalent would just be mediocrity.
 

zambam said:
I'd say winning more Big Ten Football games than Mason did would be success. The equivalent would just be mediocrity.
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Well, then, just DO IT zambam. So far, we are looking at a 2 win Big Ten season in Coach Kill's first season. Is that enough Big Ten wins in a season zambam? How many seasons do you suggest we wait? We can add Coach Kill's 2 B.T. wins in 2011 to the number of Big Ten wins he gets in 2012. Then, we can divide that number by two and see if it averages out to more wins than ANY other Gopher Coach we want to check Coach Kill out against. With each additional year, we will have more meaningful numbers of Big Ten wins as well as numbers of years coached here to find out what the averages will tell us.

So, how many Big Ten wins a season (on average) do you think a coach at Minnesota needs to be considered to be a success, zambammer? 3...4...5...more? We will be able to compare numbers of B.T wins any coach that we have had here at the U of M during the past half century has had if you want.

That's just what we can do. You let me know when we have ANY coach who gets us beyond mediocrity in Big Ten Play old zambammer... We can run the numbers on any coach you want! But, if you go back much beyond half a century, it will be tough to come up with comps that mean too much...

; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
Well, then, just DO IT zambam. So far, we are looking at a 2 win Big Ten season in Coach Kill's first season. Is that enough Big Ten wins in a season zambam? How many seasons do you suggest we wait? We can add Coach Kill's 2 B.T. wins in 2011 to the number of Big Ten wins he gets in 2012. Then, we can divide that number by two and see if it averages out to more wins than ANY other Gopher Coach we want to check Coach Kill out against....that brewster, Mason, Wacker, gutey, lou hoax, Smokey Joe, Stoll, Murray Warmath, Fessler, Bierman...et al.

That's just what we can do. You let me know when we have ANY coach who gets us beyond mediocrity in Big Ten Play old zambammer... We can run the numbers on any coach you want! But, if you go back much beyond half a century, it will be tough to come up with comps that mean too much...

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You need to make up your mind. First you wanna give Kill tenure, now you're questioning how long it will take him to win? Plus, if all you want is mediocrity out of this program, then you are not someone this team needs in support.
 

By all means: Give Coach Kill tenure. THEN, make sure that the administration puts him in a position to win here at Minnesota. Start firing the administrators rather than the coach. Hell, we have tried the firing coach thing ALL THE TIME. It's time to fire the administrators AND fire the tired old sports media types who have been here 10...20...30...40...50...60 years PLUS.

IF you are waiting for a coach to get it done here...you are just plain out of luck zambam. It's NOT just the coach... As much as anything, it has been the constant chaos, change of coaches and coaching staffs and the attempts to "fire our way into prosperity..." Big Ten wins are NOT only the responsibility of the coach. Just look at the extremes that the ENTIRE Ohio State University goes to to insure that the football team REMAINS one of the highest priorities at that school. Take a look at the way they treat football at Nebraska...Michigan...iowa...wisky...MSU...

YOU tell ME how the heck YOU think the U of M will do better than mediocrity with the Football Program the way the administration has handled things. How the heck does the sports media think that the U will get beyond mediocrity in football?

Come on zambammer...tell us how it's going to happen at Minnesota? Can it happen? Why hasn't it happened? So, what's your plan zambammer?

I say we might just as well start by giving our football coach tenure and then start working from there...Nothing else has worked here...

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I recognize this behavior... let me handle this one

imthewalrus said:
By all means: Give Coach Kill tenure. THEN, make sure that the administration puts him in a position to win here at Minnesota. Start firing the administrators rather than the coach. Hell, we have tried the firing coach thing ALL THE TIME. It's time to fire the administrators AND fire the tired old sports media types who have been here 10...20...30...40...50...60 years PLUS.

IF you are waiting for a coach to get it done here...you are just plain out of luck zambam. It's NOT just the coach...stupid. As much as anything, it has been the constant chaos, change of coaches and coaching staffs and the attempts to "fire our way into prosperity..." Big Ten wins are NOT only the responsibility of the coach. Just look at the extremes that the ENTIRE Ohio State University goes to to insure that the football team REMAINS one of the highest priorities at that school. Take a look at the way they treat football at Nebraska...Michigan...iowa...wisky...MSU...

YOU tell ME how the hell YOU think the U of M will do better than mediocrity with the Football Program the way the administration has handled things. How the hell does the sports media think that the U will get beyond mediocrity in football?

Come on zambammer...tell us how it's going to happen at Minnesota? Can it happen? Why hasn't it happened? So, what's your plan zambammer?

I say we might just as well start by giving our football coach tenure and then start working from there...Nothing else has worked here...

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Everybody has heard your opinion loud and clear. They read you 5x5. Not sure we need to revisit this until JM either retires or is fired. None of this is in our hands. If you have emailed the administration on this -- good for you. Congratulations. The rest of us can sit back and decide what to do on our own terms and don't need to be instructed and re-told by you until the sun extinguishes itself as it runs out of fuel.

I have gone on my rants and have learned to shut up after the board makes its judgement. You should do the same. It would be the polite and respectful thing to do, instead of calling out people.
 

Thank you for your opinion, but, I totally disagree.

10 years is entirely too long for b(s)jm to be employed as the ad based upon his record with the Men's Revenue Sports, his record with hires and his termination practices and the current state of Football Season Ticket Sales. 2012 is shaping up to be a disaster from the football ticket sales perspective.

I've been buying tickets to Gopher Football for entirely too long to just "...shut up..." as you so quaintly put it singleoldgopher. Personally I don't care for your style much probably just as much as you may disagree with my style. However, until you had presented the opportunity for me to publically disagree with one of your points, I have been too polite and respectful to you for entirely too long now, it would appear. I disagree with your take on the situation. Nothing wrong with a little disagreement, is there oldgopher?

This is a place where individual people need to say what they think even if they don't adhere to the scripted by "a few..." so called " little group opinion" would attempt to dictate. When something needs to be done: it needs to be done. When something needs to be said: it needs to be said. You do your thing...I'll do mine. Have a good evening!

Don't worry...enough people around this place are calling for the head of the ad. I am in the "main stream" when it comes to the need for the replacement of macturi. If it is not accomplished by prexy k, and soon, there will be even more attention paid to this problem.



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For the alumnae who are not "plugged in" to campus life as much, what is a better measure of the success of a school than athletics? Graduation rates aren't sexy. Contributions to the community can be easily squandered or unappreciated.

Name some successful Gopher grads, which ones come up first, athletes.

I could almost wager that no one on this board could name a successful Gopher grad in theater, medicine, law, literature, chemistry, computer science or journalism in the last twenty plus years.

No one likes the Lowest Common Denominator, yet it is the easiest to find and grasp. Athletics thrives on results based behaviors, you either win or you lose. No one cares if you did a good job preparing when your preparations don't result in a Win for the school.

I suffered through the 80's and the coddling babble from Sid Hartmann et al in that era. Our wounds were salved, our egos coddled, lower standards were made acceptable and moral victories mounted, while winning percentages dropped along with reasons to donate to the U.

The U also stumbled in developing legacy donation programs because previous administrations labored under the belief that the state legislature would always be enamored of their land grant university and provide them with sufficient funds.

Until theater, journalism, literature, medicine, law, chemistry or computer science yield easily identifiable and widely embraceable "celeb grads", the best you get is athletes and they end up being the ones who drive donation spikes to a school.
 

Ewert86PC said:
For the alumnae who are not "plugged in" to campus life as much, what is a better measure of the success of a school than athletics? Graduation rates aren't sexy. Contributions to the community can be easily squandered or unappreciated.

Name some successful Gopher grads, which ones come up first, athletes.

I could almost wager that no one on this board could name a successful Gopher grad in theater, medicine, law, literature, chemistry, computer science or journalism in the last twenty plus years.

No one likes the Lowest Common Denominator, yet it is the easiest to find and grasp. Athletics thrives on results based behaviors, you either win or you lose. No one cares if you did a good job preparing when your preparations don't result in a Win for the school.

I suffered through the 80's and the coddling babble from Sid Hartmann et al in that era. Our wounds were salved, our egos coddled, lower standards were made acceptable and moral victories mounted, while winning percentages dropped along with reasons to donate to the U.

The U also stumbled in developing legacy donation programs because previous administrations labored under the belief that the state legislature would always be enamored of their land grant university and provide them with sufficient funds.

Until theater, journalism, literature, medicine, law, chemistry or computer science yield easily identifiable and widely embraceable "celeb grads", the best you get is athletes and they end up being the ones who drive donation spikes to a school.
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Why did you pick just those areas? Considering I can name some successful people in others, I was just curious.
 

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