What MN boys in NDSU uniform proved yesterday

Donate To GopherHole
hungan1

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
14,226
Reaction score
4,304
Points
113
is that there are more talented kids coming out of the state that never got the time of the day from the Gophers or other B1G programs.

A few who could have looked good in a Gopher's uniform. I am not only talking about the Vraa kid. Did you see the size of their O-line? There is at least a couple in defense that could have played for the Gophers (Marcus Williams?, RFr Carlton Littlejohn).

If you look at the list of the 2012 top MN players, there are players like Nick Carr, Chase Roullier, Jonathan Harden that the Gophers have not offered or looked at seriously. Some of them have already gotten offers from NDSU.

Another thing about NDSU, is they do a good job scouting out state MN talent (e.g. 2012 NDSU commitment Zach Riopelle, LB, 6'3 215, Warren-Alvarado-Oslo) in addition to snapping up Metro players that the Gophers passed on.

I know coach Kill said that he will recruit within 300-mile radius for most of his players except for speed players. I think he has more talent under his nose here in MN.

http://minnesotapreps.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=921&CID=1188183
 

Cool it on the NDSU talent level please, I highly doubt that NDSU team could beat any other team in the Big Ten, if we are aspiring to recruit at the level of NDSU we are in dire straits.
 

mkAz said:
Cool it on the NDSU talent level please, I highly doubt that NDSU team could beat any other team in the Big Ten, if we are aspiring to recruit at the level of NDSU we are in dire straits.
Click to expand...

I wish we had NDSU's talent level.
 

akgopher said:
I wish we had NDSU's talent level.
Click to expand...
So you aspire to finish at the bottom of the Big Ten? Kill won't turn this thing around filling up his classes with Minnesota kids.
 

The outcome last night had a lot more to do with heart and playing smart than it did with "talent."
 



This game wasn't won because of the amount of talent NDSU has.

You cannot compare one game against a bottom feeder like the Gophers vs. playing through an 8-game B1G schedule.

Sure, there are bound to be exceptions, but if the players weren't offered scholarships to a single FBS school, there's a reason for that.
 

mkAz said:
So you aspire to finish at the bottom of the Big Ten? Kill won't turn this thing around filling up his classes with Minnesota kids.
Click to expand...

You don't think that is where we are heading? I think the difference at this point is keeping Wisconsin and friends under 50 at home. I think one of the two teams last night has a shot at accomplishing that.
 

Lets see...FCS talent in a system that has been in place for 9 years against FCS talent in a system that is in its first year...yeah, I like NDSU's chances. If in 4 years our talent level isn't better and our players aren't better in our system, then I will say fire Kill. But lets not kid ourselves, NDSU isn't going to beat most FBS teams on most days...just ours yesterday. If you are confused...check out Wiscy - USD and you will see how most top programs handle lower program schools.
 



mkAz said:
So you aspire to finish at the bottom of the Big Ten? Kill won't turn this thing around filling up his classes with Minnesota kids.
Click to expand...

This is the exact incorrect attitude that has kept Minnesota from succeeding in football.

If the Gophers signed the 10 best Minn high school players every year - they would at least have a chance to go to the Rose bowl every 5 years or so.


Instead they would rather compete to be middle of the pack Big Ten using out of state players.
 

You put way too much stock into minnesota talent, I think.
 

zambam said:
You put way too much stock into minnesota talent, I think.
Click to expand...

Maybe.

But how do you know? Has it ever been tried?

Has there ever been a coach at the U of Minn since, I don't know maybe before Mason?, who has put his foot down and told his assistants: "I want the 10 best high school players in Minnesota - that is not negotiable! We do not leave this state until we've got them locked up, do you understand that?!".

I kindly doubt that has happened.



But what the heck - why not give it a shot? Obviously going the out of state route hasn't worked, has it? You guys were willing to follow the U since before Brewster, so that's at least 5 years.

Couldn't you give recruting Minn players a 5 year chance to work? Like I said, you won't win it all every year with MN players. But at least they'll give you a chance to go to the Rose bowl every 5 years. That I can promise. So what do you have to lose?



At least acknowledge this: Minnesota will always, always, ALWAYS have it's choice of a player over NDSU - right? I mean, if Minnesota had offered any player on NDSU's roster - they would've got that player. Am I right?

So doesn't that mean, self evidently, that Minnesota picked the wrong players?!


Why not give Minnesota players a chance? Why not let them prove if they can compete with the best in the Big Ten? Heck, even the best North Dakota players too.
 

My grandpa used to believe that the Gophers had to run with strictly Minnesotan players to go back to the Rose Bowl.

He's dead now, but his dream lives on.
 



Khaliq said:
My grandpa used to believe that the Gophers had to run with strictly Minnesotan players to go back to the Rose Bowl.

He's dead now, but his dream lives on.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be strictly. But how about more than, I don't know, THREE?!

How about sign the top 10 in Minnesota, every year, no questions. BAM done, signed.

Give it 5 years - if you're not playing in the Rose bowl, fine I was wrong. What have you lost? 5 years, big whoop - what have you done in the last 5 years?
 

BisonGopher said:
Maybe.

But how do you know? Has it ever been tried?

Has there ever been a coach at the U of Minn since, I don't know maybe before Mason?, who has put his foot down and told his assistants: "I want the 10 best high school players in Minnesota - that is not negotiable! We do not leave this state until we've got them locked up, do you understand that?!".

I kindly doubt that has happened.



But what the heck - why not give it a shot? Obviously going the out of state route hasn't worked, has it? You guys were willing to follow the U since before Brewster, so that's at least 5 years.

Couldn't you give recruting Minn players a 5 year chance to work? Like I said, you won't win it all every year with MN players. But at least they'll give you a chance to go to the Rose bowl every 5 years. That I can promise. So what do you have to lose?



At least acknowledge this: Minnesota will always, always, ALWAYS have it's choice of a player over NDSU - right? I mean, if Minnesota had offered any player on NDSU's roster - they would've got that player. Am I right?

So doesn't that mean, self evidently, that Minnesota picked the wrong players?!


Why not give Minnesota players a chance? Why not let them prove if they can compete with the best in the Big Ten? Heck, even the best North Dakota players too.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing at least 10 scholarships are offered to MN kids every year. Just because they offer, doesn't mean they are going to accept. Your theory is flawed.
 

The Gophers have a boatload of issues that should keep them up at night. Players they let go to the Dakotas is not one of them.
 

BisonGopher said:
It doesn't have to be strictly. But how about more than, I don't know, THREE?!

How about sign the top 10 in Minnesota, every year, no questions. BAM done, signed.

Give it 5 years - if you're not playing in the Rose bowl, fine I was wrong. What have you lost? 5 years, big whoop - what have you done in the last 5 years?
Click to expand...

It might happen like that on playstation, but not in the real world.
 

BisonGopher said:
It doesn't have to be strictly. But how about more than, I don't know, THREE?!

How about sign the top 10 in Minnesota, every year, no questions. BAM done, signed.

Give it 5 years - if you're not playing in the Rose bowl, fine I was wrong. What have you lost? 5 years, big whoop - what have you done in the last 5 years?
Click to expand...

Well this year they have signed 5, I'm pretty sure they got at least that many last year, and likely the year before...
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm guessing at least 10 scholarships are offered to MN kids every year. Just because they offer, doesn't mean they are going to accept. Your theory is flawed.
Click to expand...

Come on dude - you know what I meant.

You're being obtuse if you're trying to say that I mean only offer scholarships to the top 10 players each year and hope for the best.


Let me be extra explicit: sign 10 Minn players each year. Ideally the top 10 (ie, the Blue Earth kid). Failing that, get the next best.
 

zambam said:
Well this year they have signed 5, I'm pretty sure they got at least that many last year, and likely the year before...
Click to expand...

Well I have not done my research - so I might end up falling flat on my face here.

But my gut tells me that of the 85 players Minnesota has on scholarship right now (max allowed by NCAA for FBS), <50 are Minn players.


Maybe that's the best way to say it? Every year I want 50 of 85 Minn scholarship players to actually have played at Minn high schools. Sounds crazy, I know.
 




Reposting from what I wrote in another thread:

The reason isn't because they didn't have "stars". The reason is because other coaches, for whatever reason, didn't feel the kids were going to impact their football team in a positive manner. Do other D1 schools besides MN recruit MN kids? Last I checked, schools such as USC, Notre Dame, Wisconson, Nebraska, Iowa, and more recently, even Auburn, have been recruiting MN for a LONG time. Do you people think these schools didn't know about Billy Turner (playing at Mounds View), or the D-Back from Hopkins, or Veldman (who played in the state semis - when college coaches from everywhere are there because there are the most games in one place in one weekend - and the prep bowl, if I recall)? These players were seen by coaches from a lot of other D1 schools besides MN and not offered. And if the coaches didn't see them, they were told about them (do you people know how many contacts and connections Big Ten coaches have here? A billion - the Salem brothers, Dick Tressel coached at Hamline for years, etc, etc. If there is a good player here, they hear about him).

Maybe they were deemed to maybe be talented enough, but the coaches were scared off by something else - bad attitude, poor grades, disciplinary issues, etc, etc. It's REAL easy for outsiders such as most of us to sit back and say "the Gophers are idiots for not offering that kid", but we don't know the half of it.

And on the flip side, there may be guys the Gophers recruited that were also fringe D1 guys that were highly recommended by their h.s. coaches for being talented and great kids. However, those same kids may have proven to not have the desire to work/compete when they began to face other really talented competition.

Every year there are hundreds of kids that are considered "fringe" d1 players, if not thousands. Out of those that do not get that d1 offer, there is bound to be some exceptions. And we don't know if, had any of these NDSU guys gone to the U, how they would have responded to coaching changes, big city campus, additional competition for playing time, etc, etc.

Bottom line - for whatever reason, most of the kids at NDSU are at NDSU because that's where they deserved to be at the end of their h.s. career. And for guys like Turner, Veldman, the DBack from Hopkins - congratulations to them for working hard, developing in a good (and consistent) system, and becoming very good college football players.
 

hungan1 said:
is that there are more talented kids coming out of the state that never got the time of the day from the Gophers or other B1G programs.

A few who could have looked good in a Gopher's uniform. I am not only talking about the Vraa kid. Did you see the size of their O-line? There is at least a couple in defense that could have played for the Gophers (Marcus Williams?, RFr Carlton Littlejohn).

If you look at the list of the 2012 top MN players, there are players like Nick Carr, Chase Roullier, Jonathan Harden that the Gophers have not offered or looked at seriously. Some of them have already gotten offers from NDSU.

Another thing about NDSU, is they do a good job scouting out state MN talent (e.g. 2012 NDSU commitment Zach Riopelle, LB, 6'3 215, Warren-Alvarado-Oslo) in addition to snapping up Metro players that the Gophers passed on.

I know coach Kill said that he will recruit within 300-mile radius for most of his players except for speed players. I think he has more talent under his nose here in MN.

http://minnesotapreps.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=921&CID=1188183
Click to expand...

I know Riopelle very well. He's a good player but I dont know if he has the skills for the B1G. Had Minnesota offered him he more than likely would have went. NDSU and UND were his only D1 offers to my knowledge. One player they missed because he went to a small school may have been Austin Letexier who committed to UMD. He's a freshman at UMD this year.
 

Finally some good debate about MN kids and their talent level. I agree with the poster above who says we should offer 10 scholarships per year to MN athletes. If three or four say no, offer numbers 11 and 12 on your list. Those who say no, probably don't have the "Maroon and Gold" blood we would like to see anyway.
 

hungan1 said:
is that there are more talented kids coming out of the state that never got the time of the day from the Gophers or other B1G programs.

A few who could have looked good in a Gopher's uniform. I am not only talking about the Vraa kid. Did you see the size of their O-line? There is at least a couple in defense that could have played for the Gophers (Marcus Williams?, RFr Carlton Littlejohn).

If you look at the list of the 2012 top MN players, there are players like Nick Carr, Chase Roullier, Jonathan Harden that the Gophers have not offered or looked at seriously. Some of them have already gotten offers from NDSU.

Another thing about NDSU, is they do a good job scouting out state MN talent (e.g. 2012 NDSU commitment Zach Riopelle, LB, 6'3 215, Warren-Alvarado-Oslo) in addition to snapping up Metro players that the Gophers passed on.

I know coach Kill said that he will recruit within 300-mile radius for most of his players except for speed players. I think he has more talent under his nose here in MN.

http://minnesotapreps.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=921&CID=1188183
Click to expand...

It seems like the NDSU kids are scrappier and much more intense. Their qb appeared to have excellent instincts. It makes me wonder: is size way overrated? Is geography way overrated (i.e. Florida and Texas)? Is "potential" way overrated? Perhaps, there's a lot to be said for finding kids who are just scrappy, intense, savvy and possess great fundamentals? It all makes me wonder if guys like Craig Bohl have a better idea of what makes a great competitor. After all, since they have no shot at the "big names", they've had to make a living figuring out which kids beyond the "big names" will give them the best chance at winning. He appears to know what he's doing. Minnesota has always focused on getting the bottom of the "big names" (the so-called 2 and 3 star kids), while a school like NDSU appears to have focused on the scrappiest and toughest of the no names. It seems to be a better formula. I'm guessing that's what Kill and his crew were also able to do at previous stops. We'll know for sure in about 4 years.
 

mkAz said:
So you aspire to finish at the bottom of the Big Ten? Kill won't turn this thing around filling up his classes with Minnesota kids.
Click to expand...

The key to any team outside of Notre Dame starts with recruiting the best kids you can in-state. If you can't keep your best FBS quality players in-state, you will have some issues, especially in the state of Minnesota where there is only one FBS University. Kill doesn't need to kill up his classes with Minnesota kids by any means, far from it. But in-state is a great place to start. Minnesota has what? 5 or 6 million people? In there you should be able to find some solid FBS talent. Example, Notre Dame has Michael Floyd from Cretin-Derham Hall. He is their all time receptions, yards, TD's leader. Seantrell Henderson, #1 overall recruit from the same school. Minnesota has some damn good talent. I understand some of it will go elsewhere, but the key is to keep a majority of it at home.

You frown upon NDSU's talent level, rightfully so. I could bash you all I want saying that we clearly were a better team and all that but I'm not going to do that, because you have the right idea to an extent. But NDSU had some guys on the field who were B1G quality. Where were they from? Minnesota mostly.

Marcus Williams- Hopkins High- Part of a state Basketball championship team and he was the only one not to get a D1 basketball offer, NDSU snatched him up and he looked like he belonged on TCF's field.

Some of our O-line also looked B1G quality. Would they be All-Americans? No, not by any means. But servicable players? Guys who could start a year or two? Yes. If you look at any good college football teams, they recruit in-state. They do it well. Because if you can't get kids who grew up going to your games, or kids who would kill for tickets to your games, how on God's green earth do you expect to get good out of state kids to want to come be a part of your program?

If Kill can be what Mason was for Minnesota football, I think that is about where Minnesota can hope to be. A solid B1G team that the really good teams cant afford to look past, because when they do, an upset is lurking. I hope you guys are all aware by the way, that everyone over on bisonville.com is hoping Kill is ok and that this wont be a consistently reoccuring thing for him. I know we are all of the opinion that he is a quality coach and like anyone, needs time to bring in his recruits so he can finally build Gopher football back to what it should be, a consistently solid B1G team with some pretty good years and an occasional bad year. TCF is too nice of a venue to have a poor football team in.

Best of luck to Minnesota! As a Notre Dame fan I hate Michigan, please kindly show Robinson to the locker room with a couple of nice hits. M-I-N-N-E-S-O-T-A MINNESOTA MINNESOTA YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY GOPHERS! (really enjoyed that cheer, the whole stadium participated!)
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
It seems like the NDSU kids are scrappier and much more intense. Their qb appeared to have excellent instincts. It makes me wonder: is size way overrated? Is geography way overrated (i.e. Florida and Texas)? Is "potential" way overrated? Perhaps, there's a lot to be said for finding kids who are just scrappy, intense, savvy and possess great fundamentals? It all makes me wonder if guys like Craig Bohl have a better idea of what makes a great competitor. After all, since they have no shot at the "big names", they've had to make a living figuring out which kids beyond the "big names" will give them the best chance at winning. He appears to know what he's doing. Minnesota has always focused on getting the bottom of the "big names" (the so-called 2 and 3 star kids), while a school like NDSU appears to have focused on the scrappiest and toughest of the no names. It seems to be a better formula. I'm guessing that's what Kill and his crew were also able to do at previous stops. We'll know for sure in about 4 years.
Click to expand...

pardon me for two posts in a row, while I can see where you are coming from for sure, I think Kill should be recruiting scrappier kids of the 3 star athletes than the talented ones. As the saying goes, Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Lets be honest, right now Minnesota is going to have trouble landing great prospects, so I agree that you need the scrappy kids in the short term, but to compete in the B1G long-term, NDSU-scrappy kids just aren't going to cut it. Minnesota should have no problem getting talented scrappy guys if Kill is as good as he seems to be.

An interesting point my dad brought up to me at the game this weekend was in the program it seemed like all of his assistants have been with him for ages. At first thought, I thought this seemed great, but then he mentioned that just because a coach is good, it doesn't mean all of his assistants are D-1 B1G quality. Its too early to claim any of "Kill's guys" are not D-1 quality coaches. But I think it may be interesting moving forward if he is willing to part ways with any of these guys if their group of players seems to be lagging behind.

I believe loyalty is great as far as coaching, hell I know I wish NDSU had that. But I am aware that turnover is part of coaching, and sometimes you need to let go of the weak link, I am curious to see if Kill is willing to do that.

By the way, Marqueis Grey, put him at WR, Shortell seemed to look better. MQG looked like a great athlete but out of position. Put that athlete at WR, he simply looked bad against NDSU and let's be honest, that wont cut it in-conference. Shortell is young and looked better. I'd let him get used to being the starter cause that is what he will be for the next 3 years anyway.
 

As a Notre Dame fan you have any thoughts on that girl that committed suicide after one of your players raped her?

All the best.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom