Everybody needs to take a deep breath...

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hendo59

hendo59

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and calm down. I realize that many of us had much higher expectations for this season, especially after the second half of the USC games. But let me give us all a reminder from the records of two coaches from our most hated rivals during their first four years.

Barry Alvarez--1-10, 5-6, 5-6, 10-1-1 (Rose Bowl).
Kirk Ferentz--1-10, 3-9, 7-5, 11-2 (Orange Bowl).

Now I hate Becky and the Pigeyes as much as anyone, and I realize some of you may rip me for even mentioning them here. I use them begrudgingly, however, to remind us that it takes time to build a program that is in disarray. Consequently, we can likely expect a bumpy ride with this new staff for the next 2-3 years before the program is in the condition we hope it is in. It takes that long to upgrade talent and to get players to feel comfortable in a new system so they can play with speed and confidence. That may not be what we want to hear, but that is the reality of turning any program around. It takes time.

I realize that I am saying nothing new here, but with all the panic, disgust, and sometimes irrational feelings being expressed on the boards after the embarrassment of last weekend's catastrophe, I felt like it was worth bringing up again. The hallmark of young teams, especially those learning entirely new systems, is inconsistency. So patience...it will happen. Let's just try to enjoy the ride as we watch this team improve and grow over the course of the season, and watch this coaching staff build for the future through the teaching moments that are sure to follow in droves. Go Gophs!
 

Well stated hendo59. I agree with you 100%.
 

Exactly. What did we learn about this team over these two weeks? They are wildly inconsistent.

We learned that the potential is there (USC game) and that the discipline is not there yet (NMSU game). This should surprise nobody. We had some Gopherholers even predict a win at USC followed by some meltdown/letdown in one of the other non-conf games - nobody freaked out at them then, why now? We knew the Gophers would have some serious growing pains - hell, the coaches promised growing pains this first year!!

Overreactors will overreact. I'm over it. Let's move on to Miami Ohio.
 


+++1 Most RATIONAL post of the year. Succinctly and well said. The instant gratification generation needs to grow up.
 


Did Alvarez or Ferentz get beat at home in their first couple of years as a 23 point favorite?

Once again, it's like somebody copies and pastes this B.S. about Ferentz and Alvarez every single year. Losing is one thing, but Saturday was abysmal for both the coaches and players and if you're not at least a little concerned with what transpired - you're completely drunk off the kool-aid. Not saying Kill and his staff should be fired, or that they are doomed to fail here - it just's alarming.
 

18,000 fans must agree with Art. There were no more than 30,000 fans in the stands in the 4th quarter. I would say in the 50 some years I've followed Gopher football this ranks in the top 10 of stinkers; maybe even in the top 5 because we were I believe 23 point favorites.
 

hendo59 said:
and calm down. I realize that many of us had much higher expectations for this season, especially after the second half of the USC games. But let me give us all a reminder from the records of two coaches from our most hated rivals during their first four years.

Barry Alvarez--1-10, 5-6, 5-6, 10-1-1 (Rose Bowl).
Kirk Ferentz--1-10, 3-9, 7-5, 11-2 (Orange Bowl).

Now I hate Becky and the Pigeyes as much as anyone, and I realize some of you may rip me for even mentioning them here. I use them begrudgingly, however, to remind us that it takes time to build a program that is in disarray. Consequently, we can likely expect a bumpy ride with this new staff for the next 2-3 years before the program is in the condition we hope it is in. It takes that long to upgrade talent and to get players to feel comfortable in a new system so they can play with speed and confidence. That may not be what we want to hear, but that is the reality of turning any program around. It takes time.

I realize that I am saying nothing new here, but with all the panic, disgust, and sometimes irrational feelings being expressed on the boards after the embarrassment of last weekend's catastrophe, I felt like it was worth bringing up again. The hallmark of young teams, especially those learning entirely new systems, is inconsistency. So patience...it will happen. Let's just try to enjoy the ride as we watch this team improve and grow over the course of the season, and watch this coaching staff build for the future through the teaching moments that are sure to follow in droves. Go Gophs!
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Brewster also only won one game his first year and how did that turn out. People keep posting the Ferentz and Alvarez early career records as if it is destined to happen here for <insert current coach here>. Just because it happened for them does not mean it will necessarily happen here, as numerous coaches have proven. It might but there are far more coaches that have failed than succeeded when off to that rough of a start.
 

GopherGod said:
Brewster also only won one game his first year and how did that turn out. People keep posting the Ferentz and Alvarez early career records as if it is destined to happen here for <insert current coach here>. Just because it happened for them does not mean it will necessarily happen here, as numerous coaches have proven. It might but there are far more coaches that have failed than succeeded when off to that rough of a start.
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No one is saying it is destined. People are merely saying that a bad first year does not indicate long-term failure.
 









Art Vandelay said:
Did Alvarez or Ferentz get beat at home in their first couple of years as a 23 point favorite?

Once again, it's like somebody copies and pastes this B.S. about Ferentz and Alvarez every single year. Losing is one thing, but Saturday was abysmal for both the coaches and players and if you're not at least a little concerned with what transpired - you're completely drunk off the kool-aid. Not saying Kill and his staff should be fired, or that they are doomed to fail here - it just's alarming.
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No, but they were both horrible teams who lost to pretty much everybody.

Iowa average margin of loss in 1999--22.7 ppg. 1 victory against Northern Illinois
Wisconsin average margin of loss in 1990--16.9 ppg. 1 victory against Ball St.

Further, if the #5 Wolverines can lose at home to FCS App. St., who were even bigger underdogs, then I think it is safe to say that an upset can surely happen to a young team that has been decimated by years of ineptitude and is in the first year of a rebuilding process.

My comment, and the others who commented in this thread before you decided to interject some of your predictable negativity are not suggesting that saturday wasn't very disappointing. But if you are alarmed by what transpired in the first two weeks of the season, even this past weekend, then you don't have an accurate grasp on the reality of a turn-around process, and are likely drunk on your negativity potion. We are not suggesting that what happened at Wisc and Iowa will automatically happen here with Kill either. We just seem to be able to grasp reality a little better than those of you who have been consumed by your own negativity. I believe that alarmism can wait until a t least year 2 if no improvement is seen. Until then, why don't you try to change your drink of choice?
 


Great post. Thanks! I agree 100%.
 

Great original post.

I know it is hard to accept, but building a winner takes time. It does not happen in one season, or even two seasons. Things just don't work that way today where you can't go out and buy the best talent available if you have a big enough check book.

I don't know if this is THE staff to bring glory back to The U or not. What I do know is that it is way to early to be having meltdowns or pass any kind of judgment.

I also believe that in order to rebuild a program from the ground up, many times it is necessary to take some short term pain, in that a coach has to decide whether to instill his discipline and system at the expense of using another system that your players may have been recruited to and may make them more competitive in the short term but sacrificing your long-term potential.

Since it was already brought up, this was done at Iowa under Ferentz, where his first two teams finished 1-10 and 3-8 but had 14 players make an NFL roster. There was plenty of talent there, just the wrong kind for what he was trying to do, which included a loss to Western Michigan in 2000 as a 20 point favorite.

There is no magic cure. Have fun and enjoy the ride, because when things really do turn around, it is going to be one hell of a ride....and I certainly plan on being there.
 

TheJackass said:
Great original post.

I know it is hard to accept, but building a winner takes time. It does not happen in one season, or even two seasons. Things just don't work that way today where you can't go out and buy the best talent available if you have a big enough check book.

I don't know if this is THE staff to bring glory back to The U or not. What I do know is that it is way to early to be having meltdowns or pass any kind of judgment.

I also believe that in order to rebuild a program from the ground up, many times it is necessary to take some short term pain, in that a coach has to decide whether to instill his discipline and system at the expense of using another system that your players may have been recruited to and may make them more competitive in the short term but sacrificing your long-term potential.

Since it was already brought up, this was done at Iowa under Ferentz, where his first two teams finished 1-10 and 3-8 but had 14 players make an NFL roster. There was plenty of talent there, just the wrong kind for what he was trying to do, which included a loss to Western Michigan in 2000 as a 20 point favorite.

There is no magic cure. Have fun and enjoy the ride, because when things really do turn around, it is going to be one hell of a ride....and I certainly plan on being there.
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Well said, Jackass! :) I will be there as well!
 

TheJackass said:
I also believe that in order to rebuild a program from the ground up, many times it is necessary to take some short term pain, in that a coach has to decide whether to instill his discipline and system at the expense of using another system that your players may have been recruited to and may make them more competitive in the short term but sacrificing your long-term potential.
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BINGO! Nice Post Jack! Very well stated.
 

this is a good thread but as soon as they have another near miss such as USC or beat someone they shouldn't which will happen this year those that were predicting the 44-6 romp of NMSU are going be all over it again. when that happens everyone should calm done and take another deep breath.
 

i will never stop being a gopher fan, but those making excuses for this loss to nmsu is ridiculous. we shouldnt be to critical with kill and this team during the big ten season but there is no reason we should lose to nmsu, miami(oh), or ndsu! this will take time but dont give the b.s. that saturday is excusable
 

lakesgopher said:
i will never stop being a gopher fan, but those making excuses for this loss to nmsu is ridiculous. we shouldnt be to critical with kill and this team during the big ten season but there is no reason we should lose to nmsu, miami(oh), or ndsu! this will take time but dont give the b.s. that saturday is excusable
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You probably need to go back and read these posts again lakes, since no one was making any excuses. Make sure you understand the point of the post/thread before you make inaccurate comments please.
 

lol all i hear is, barry and kirk had some problems...brew only won a single game...it takes time to build a winner...sounds like excuses to me
 

No excuses here, just being a realist.

If you want to believe in magic turnarounds and pixie dust, more power to you...but when it inevitably fails to develop, it would be wise to not let the anger eat you up.
 

Haven't heard anybody actually calling for Kill to be fired but NMSU game was definitely a black eye for him, or maybe Strike One. Kill came in here with a reputation both for building programs AND for 'coaching up' players AND for winning games against more talented teams with less talented teams and winning games he was 'supposed' to win. In only his second game as coach of the Gophers Saturday his players played like crap and were beaten by a less talented team at home. If the same result would have come against USC, Purdue, Michigan State, Michigan, Northwestern, Illinois, MiamiOH, Iowa or Wisconsin it would not have raised any red flags. But the game against NMSU (and in the future NoDak) should have been easy wins for such an experienced coach with a track record like Kill's.
This was a debacle, plain and simple. Brewster sealed his fate by losing to USD, Kill will get a second and third chance, he just burned his first.
 

Mick Turition said:
Haven't heard anybody actually calling for Kill to be fired but NMSU game was definitely a black eye for him, or maybe Strike One. Kill came in here with a reputation both for building programs AND for 'coaching up' players AND for winning games against more talented teams with less talented teams and winning games he was 'supposed' to win. In only his second game as coach of the Gophers Saturday his players played like crap and were beaten by a less talented team at home. If the same result would have come against USC, Purdue, Michigan State, Michigan, Northwestern, Illinois, MiamiOH, Iowa or Wisconsin it would not have raised any red flags. But the game against NMSU (and in the future NoDak) should have been easy wins for such an experienced coach with a track record like Kill's.
This was a debacle, plain and simple. Brewster sealed his fate by losing to USD, Kill will get a second and third chance, he just burned his first.
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Please. You're showing a lack of understanding of what it can take to rebuild a program that has bottomed out, just like lakes above. And if I follow your logic above, what you're saying is that if he loses next week against miami-oh and the week after against NDSt, he's gone because he just blew his 3 chances! Get serious Mick. Bad game? Sure. Embarrassing loss for Kill and the program? Definitely. But strike 1 of 3? Let's get back to reality please.
 

Mick Turition said:
Haven't heard anybody actually calling for Kill to be fired but NMSU game was definitely a black eye for him, or maybe Strike One. Kill came in here with a reputation both for building programs AND for 'coaching up' players AND for winning games against more talented teams with less talented teams and winning games he was 'supposed' to win. In only his second game as coach of the Gophers Saturday his players played like crap and were beaten by a less talented team at home. If the same result would have come against USC, Purdue, Michigan State, Michigan, Northwestern, Illinois, MiamiOH, Iowa or Wisconsin it would not have raised any red flags. But the game against NMSU (and in the future NoDak) should have been easy wins for such an experienced coach with a track record like Kill's.
This was a debacle, plain and simple. Brewster sealed his fate by losing to USD, Kill will get a second and third chance, he just burned his first.
Click to expand...

I'm glad Joel's the AD and not you. You can't just apply baseball analogies to everything in life.
 

Great Post

Great post.

Give Kill some time! All you dewsh rockets who think this is an overnight turnaround are sadly mistaken. There may be some glimmers of hope, but we aren't there yet.

Sit back, lower your expectations and enjoy the season. It's the 2nd friggin game!
 

We should've limited the coaches we interviewed for the job to ones that have never lost a game they were "supposed to win".
 


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