My take away from the Barn ...

[freshtrout]

Al Nolen had Manny Harris frustrated and would not let him get off his shot during the 2nd half. Tubby takes AN out and Manny goes crazy.
Jamal has a sweet spin move from the baseline...I wish they would try to let him play along the baseline more often. He can go up and over smaller defenders.
JW playing 6 minutes at the start of the game was enough..Tubby.
Blake played hard and smart..The offense flows better when he is in.
Ralph played very well, and only threw up one 'brick' of a shot.
LW made plays, and then made stupid plays one after another it seemed.
Damian did his usual thing..blocks, steals, and scoring 12 points, but his 3 TO's hurt badly.
Just way too many TO's to win the game, once again. Some questionable moves by Tubby and this game = Frustration.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Al Nolen had Manny Harris frustrated and would not let him get off his shot during the 2nd half. Tubby takes AN out and Manny goes crazy.
Jamal has a sweet spin move from the baseline...I wish they would try to let him play along the baseline more often. He can go up and over smaller defenders.
JW playing 6 minutes at the start of the game was enough..Tubby.
Blake played hard and smart..The offense flows better when he is in.
Ralph played very well, and only threw up one 'brick' of a shot.
LW made plays, and then made stupid plays one after another it seemed.
Damian did his usual thing..blocks, steals, and scoring 12 points, but his 3 TO's hurt badly.
Just way too many TO's to win the game, once again. Some questionable moves by Tubby and this game = Frustration.

Certainly bad L for Gophers. You cannot "blow" 12 pt 2nd half lead at home on Senior Day.

 

[freshtrout]

And score just 13 points in the final 13 minutes ....

 

[Schnoodler]

Isn't that just the poster child sentiment of the season though.

It appears that other teams are tearing us up in the end. But that's not the case, we just stop scoring. I swear if we just had average offensive play at the end of these games we'd be in at least 2nd place.

 

[Jeshurun]

Isn't that just the poster child sentiment of the season though.

It appears that other teams are tearing us up in the end. But that's not the case, we just stop scoring. I swear if we just had average offensive play at the end of these games we'd be in at least 2nd place.

So true. Royce White where are you???

 

[tjgopher]

Al Nolen had Manny Harris frustrated and would not let him get off his shot during the 2nd half. Tubby takes AN out and Manny goes crazy.

Manny goes crazy? Huh? He scored 8 points in the second half. Level Lucas-Perry was the kid who went crazy. He scored 15 in the 2nd half.

And, an FYI, Minnesota had a 12-point lead at the 14:00 mark. That's when Al Nolen came IN for the first time of the 2nd half and Devoe Joseph came out. When Al next left the game, the Gophers trailed by 2. Al was NOT in the game when we rallied late against Wisconsin both times. Al was in the game when we went scoreless for the final 6+ minutes at Illinois. Al was in the game when we scored 13 points in the final 13 minutes today. The offense bogs down with Al in there. It is that simple.

 

[SWGOPHER]

Hence all the things I've said about Al in other posts. He works hard, but does not have that "feel" for the game I'd like in a point guard. Maybe at a lower level of competition is where he belongs. Then his skills will be stronger than his opponents and his lack of "feel" for the game won't get exposed. If we count on him to run the offense next year, none of us will be happy with the result. I don't see where there is room for him to improve, he's just too limited. In the words of Denny Green "He is what we thought he was", and that's not a compliment.

 

[freshtrout]

Manny goes crazy? Huh? He scored 8 points in the second half. Level Lucas-Perry was the kid who went crazy. He scored 15 in the 2nd half.

And, an FYI, Minnesota had a 12-point lead at the 14:00 mark. That's when Al Nolen came IN for the first time of the 2nd half and Devoe Joseph came out. When Al next left the game, the Gophers trailed by 2. Al was NOT in the game when we rallied late against Wisconsin both times. Al was in the game when we went scoreless for the final 6+ minutes at Illinois. Al was in the game when we scored 13 points in the final 13 minutes today. The offense bogs down with Al in there. It is that simple.

Did you go to the game? Two possesions in a row, in the 2nd half, AN stopped Manny. Then Tubby took him out of the game. Manny's 8 points in the second half (not a big number) was gigantic for Mich... at THE TIME, when Jamal and or Devoe tried their best to guard him.

 

[gopher24]

One of the things that I found frustrating throughout the season is the long stretches of scoring droughts. It happens to every team to some extent, but the problem (and the TV commentator said it today) is the lack of offensive aggressiveness. I would much rather watch a team that makes aggressive mistakes than passive ones.

The other thing that I've found frustrating throughout is that opposing teams 3 pt shooters always seem to have a field day against us. I'm thinking of the second Ohio State game when Diebler went off as an example. Many of the players we have struggled with are shooters only, but we have continuously given open looks to those players. Part of it seems to be scheme. Tubby's philosophy is to collapse when the opponent has the ball in the post. The post then simply passes out to an open shooter. Have we played anyone this year with a dominant post player? It seems to me that Tubby needs to revisit that philosophy before next year given the shot blockers our team has returning.

 

[Schnoodler]

Most of our losses have been pretty close, I wonder if those three pointers wouldn't look so lethal if we were scoring more. It might be a good concession, art of war stuff, if we had more points.

 

[tjgopher]

Did you go to the game? Two possesions in a row, in the 2nd half, AN stopped Manny. Then Tubby took him out of the game. Manny's 8 points in the second half (not a big number) was gigantic for Mich... at THE TIME, when Jamal and or Devoe tried their best to guard him.

Yes, I was at the game.

Actually, Manny scored 11 in the 2nd half (my mistake)

His first was at 18:04 to go from the DEEP corner over Damian Johnson. Al had not even entered the game yet in the 2nd half.

His next bucket was at 13:06 - a layup that was a 3-pt play after a FT. He beat Damian (who picked up his 3rd foul on the play). Al was in the game and guarding CJ Lee at the time.

His next bucket came at 7:28, a layup in which he beat JAS. Al was in the game and was guarding Lavel Lucas-Perry at the time.

His final FG was another 3pt FG from DEEP corner over Damian Johnson again. Al was not in the game at this time.


In the meantime, the guy who did the real damage was Lavel Lucas-Perry who hit nine straight points. A 3pt FG at 11:14 over Hoffarber (AN was guarding Harris at the time); a 3pt FG at 9:47 over Hoffarber (Al was guarding Manny at the time); and a 3pt FG at 9:24 over Joseph (Nolen was guarding Harris at the time).

 

[freshtrout]

Yes, I was at the game.

Actually, Manny scored 11 in the 2nd half (my mistake)

His first was at 18:04 to go from the DEEP corner over Damian Johnson. Al had not even entered the game yet in the 2nd half.

His next bucket was at 13:06 - a layup that was a 3-pt play after a FT. He beat Damian (who picked up his 3rd foul on the play). Al was in the game and guarding CJ Lee at the time.

His next bucket came at 7:28, a layup in which he beat JAS. Al was in the game and was guarding Lavel Lucas-Perry at the time.

His final FG was another 3pt FG from DEEP corner over Damian Johnson again. Al was not in the game at this time.


In the meantime, the guy who did the real damage was Lavel Lucas-Perry who hit nine straight points. A 3pt FG at 11:14 over Hoffarber (AN was guarding Harris at the time); a 3pt FG at 9:47 over Hoffarber (Al was guarding Manny at the time); and a 3pt FG at 9:24 over Joseph (Nolen was guarding Harris at the time).[/QUOTE

TJGopher, good listing of the possessions...but I think you are missing a couple of stops from AN on Manny...I'm not talking about Manny's baskets, just AN's level of defense to stop Manny Harris from getting even more shots. Then AN was taken out of the game. And that HURT.

 

[tjgopher]

Yes, I was at the game.

Actually, Manny scored 11 in the 2nd half (my mistake)

His first was at 18:04 to go from the DEEP corner over Damian Johnson. Al had not even entered the game yet in the 2nd half.

His next bucket was at 13:06 - a layup that was a 3-pt play after a FT. He beat Damian (who picked up his 3rd foul on the play). Al was in the game and guarding CJ Lee at the time.

His next bucket came at 7:28, a layup in which he beat JAS. Al was in the game and was guarding Lavel Lucas-Perry at the time.

His final FG was another 3pt FG from DEEP corner over Damian Johnson again. Al was not in the game at this time.


In the meantime, the guy who did the real damage was Lavel Lucas-Perry who hit nine straight points. A 3pt FG at 11:14 over Hoffarber (AN was guarding Harris at the time); a 3pt FG at 9:47 over Hoffarber (Al was guarding Manny at the time); and a 3pt FG at 9:24 over Joseph (Nolen was guarding Harris at the time).[/QUOTE

TJGopher, good listing of the possessions...but I think you are missing a couple of stops from AN on Manny...I'm not talking about Manny's baskets, just AN's level of defense to stop Manny Harris from getting even more shots. Then AN was taken out of the game. And that HURT.

Maybe. Nolen was IN the game when Michigan made its run. He entered the game with a 12-point lead and the next thing you know we're down 2. Lucas-Perry was the guy. It was not Manny and that's a tip of the cap to Nolen who was guarding Manny. But, Manny only scored one bucket after Nolen was taken out, so I don't think that was a determining factor. It was a closely guarded 3pt FG from DEEP in the corner over Damian Johnson, so Nolen would not have had any impact on the play anyway.

Lucas-Perry was the main Michigan factor.

For Minnesota - scoring points was the problem. The Gophers scored 3 FGs TOTAL in the final 14 minutes. They scored 1 FG in the final 8 minutes. They scored NO FGs in the final 4 minutes. It is a recurring theme and - IMO - Nolen bogs the offense down. We built a 12-point lead when Al was on the bench and the offense was flowing smoothly.

 

[freshtrout]

Yes, Lucas Perry was the deal breaker. Similar to Sims in the first half. Manny Harris is the leading scorer in the BT this year. When AN had him man to man he did well. That's my point.

 

[minngg]

Here is what I saw on TV. The Gophers were up by 12 and getting the ball inside and scoring. Nolen came in the game and the offense went completely flat. This team will not compete for Big Ten in future years if he is the starting PG.

 

[freshtrout]

You may or not be right. But again, when AN guarded Manny Harris, he (Manny) had a tough time scoring. I just wish AN could have guared him more often, especially in the second half. AN didn't come into the game until after the six minute mark in the 2nd half...so it wasn't like he needed a blow. Tubby took him out, Manny scored (as TJGopher so well stated) on Jamal and on others, that's a fact. I doubt that he would have had the 'free-range' if AN was guarding him that lesser defenders gave him. When Manny Harris starts scoring, Michigan gets it in gear, and we couldn't stop them.

 

[tjgopher]

You may or not be right. But again, when AN guarded Manny Harris, he (Manny) had a tough time scoring. I just wish AN could have guared him more often, especially in the second half. AN didn't come into the game until after the six minute mark in the 2nd half...so it wasn't like he needed a blow. Tubby took him out, Manny scored (as TJGopher so well stated) on Jamal and on others, that's a fact. I doubt that he would have had the 'free-range' if AN was guarding him that lesser defenders gave him. When Manny Harris starts scoring, Michigan gets it in gear, and we couldn't stop them.

No, Manny scored ONCE after Tubby took Al out at the 5:00 mark. That was the closely-guarded 3 pt FG. Nolen was IN the game when Manny scored the other two FGs...Al was simply guarding someone else. My point is that Nolen leaving the game at the 5:00 mark had very, very little to do with the outcome. In your opening statement you said "Al left the game and Manny goes crazy." Simply not true.

In fact, I just figured it up. Al Nolen played 20 minutes. For the 20 minutes he was in the game, the Gophers were outscored by 10 points. For the 20 minutes he was not in the game, the Gophers outscored Michigan by 7 points. So, in summation, I think you are placing far, far too much emphasis on the fact that Tubby took Al out at the 5:00 mark. It didn't matter.

Many other more important things did matter. Michigan made the run when Al was in the game. Minnesota's offense scored three baskets after the 14:00 mark. One of those was after Al left the game at the 5:00 and before he returned at the 1:00 mark. So, basically Al played ten minutes in the second half and Minnesota scored two FGs in that ten minutes.

 

[freshtrout]

Not talking about the 5 minute mark. Just the two possessions that AN stopped Manny and wishing that he had more opportunities.

 

[tjgopher]

Not talking about the 5 minute mark. Just the two possessions that AN stopped Manny and wishing that he had more opportunities.

Ok. So, Al stopped Manny a couple of times. Not sure that is such a big deal. Damian totally shut him down in the first half (1 FG). Manny Harris scored 4 FGs in the 2nd half, half came when Al was on the floor. The FG that Manny scored over JAS was a result of a switch. Nolen started the possession guarding Manny. The other three FGs he scored over Damian (two of which were defended beautifully).

In all, I'd call it a non-factor in the outcome of the game. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[TruthTeller]

Ok. So, Al stopped Manny a couple of times. Not sure that is such a big deal. Damian totally shut him down in the first half (1 FG). Manny Harris scored 4 FGs in the 2nd half, half came when Al was on the floor. The FG that Manny scored over JAS was a result of a switch. Nolen started the possession guarding Manny. The other three FGs he scored over Damian (two of which were defended beautifully).

In all, I'd call it a non-factor in the outcome of the game. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

What has happened to AN? Last season he ran the team fine.

Sophomore slump? Lost confidence? What?

 

[Stan]

What has happened to AN? Last season he ran the team fine.

Sophomore slump? Lost confidence? What?

Some on The Hole praised Monson over and over last year for recruiting Nolen. Some on The Hole aren't doing that this year.

Interesting.

 

[TruthTeller]

Some on The Hole praised Monson over and over last year for recruiting Nolen. Some on The Hole aren't doing that this year.

Interesting.

There were many right here that praised al over and over. Cant admit that right now. Stan = dishonesty. BTW Stan, care to share with the legions your past moniker?

Perhaps the coaching has a direct impact on the regression.

 

[Reserve]

Perhaps the coaching has a direct impact on the regression.

Your posts are just laughable. If you have a beef with Tubby let us know what it is. If you want to follow your boy Monson give the Long Beach State site a visit.

Nolen is a good defender, maybe great, but he can't score to save his life. 13 points in the last five games aren't going to get it done.

 

[TruthTeller]

Your posts are just laughable. If you have a beef with Tubby let us know what it is. If you want to follow your boy Monson give the Long Beach State site a visit.

Nolen is a good defender, maybe great, but he can't score to save his life. 13 points in the last five games aren't going to get it done.

Who mentioned Monson? Or Long BEach? You seem fixated on Monson, not me.

Again you fail to admit that a n was a better player as a so. Perhaps tubby has broken him? Can he be rebuilt?

You must be a reserve cause you couldnt be a starter.....

 

[tjgopher]

What has happened to AN? Last season he ran the team fine.

Sophomore slump? Lost confidence? What?

Al averaged 4 pts and 3.5 assists last year coming off the bench. He shot 32% from the floor last year and 29% from 3pt range. He average about 22 minutes per game. I wouldn't say he set the world on fire.

This year he's averaging 7 pts and 4 assists. So, I'm not sure I'd say he's regressed. From what? 29% shooting? 4 pts/game? It might be more accurate to say he hasn't progressed to the point that many of us had hoped.

He's always been a slightly less than average Big Ten point guard on the offensive end. He is very, very solid on defense. I hope he can continue to progress into a better Big Ten point guard. We need it.

 

[TruthTeller]

Al averaged 4 pts and 3.5 assists last year coming off the bench. He shot 32% from the floor last year and 29% from 3pt range. He average about 22 minutes per game. I wouldn't say he set the world on fire.

This year he's averaging 7 pts and 4 assists. So, I'm not sure I'd say he's regressed. From what? 29% shooting? 4 pts/game? It might be more accurate to say he hasn't progressed to the point that many of us had hoped.

He's always been a slightly less than average Big Ten point guard on the offensive end. He is very, very solid on defense. I hope he can continue to progress into a better Big Ten point guard. We need it.

No one said he "set the world on fire". I did state that he "ran the team fine" as a fr. That is a fact.

The point is he has regressed in his ability as a pg. Do you disagree tj? If so, how?

 

[tjgopher]

No one said he "set the world on fire". I did state that he "ran the team fine" as a fr. That is a fact.

The point is he has regressed in his ability as a pg. Do you disagree tj? If so, how?

I haven't noticed a big regression. I think when Al's in the game (both this year and last year) he dribbles too much, slows down the pace too much when there's a chance to run, fails to get the ball inside enough, and simply cannot recognize when a player flashes open after setting him a high pick. I don't think that's changed much from last year, but it is more noticeable now since he is in a starting role, playing much more, and is now the "go to" guy at point guard. There's no McKenzie, Coleman or Tollackson, so that has put Al into a guy who has more focus on him this year. So, more is being asked of Al. He's giving a great effort and doing well on defense. Offensively, he's still limited.

And, you may be right about confidence. Tubby rides him pretty good it looks like. Tubby benched him this week. So, maybe his confidence is shaken a bit.

There were scoring droughts last year and there have been scoring droughts this year. That's been a big problem.

Again, this is just one man's opinion.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

I haven't noticed a big regression. I think when Al's in the game (both this year and last year) he dribbles too much, slows down the pace too much when there's a chance to run, fails to get the ball inside enough, and simply cannot recognize when a player flashes open after setting him a high pick. I don't think that's changed much from last year, but it is more noticeable now since he is in a starting role, playing much more, and is now the "go to" guy at point guard. There's no McKenzie, Coleman or Tollackson, so that has put Al into a guy who has more focus on him this year. So, more is being asked of Al. He's giving a great effort and doing well on defense. Offensively, he's still limited.

And, you may be right about confidence. Tubby rides him pretty good it looks like. Tubby benched him this week. So, maybe his confidence is shaken a bit.

There were scoring droughts last year and there have been scoring droughts this year. That's been a big problem.

Again, this is just one man's opinion.

I think both were better as freshmen than sophomores. Each can get MUCH better as junior.

 

[LongTimeGopher]

I agree tj. Al had the same problems last year but he didn't try to do too much. We also didn't have much else for options and he was a FR so he wasn't critiqued too harshly. This year everyone expected more, including Al himself. He had a couple good games early and I think his mindset changed to where he thought he was "The Guy". Things haven't worked out that way yet he'll still try to take over games. He tries to drive but can't finish. He and LW have to be the worst pair of guards at feeding the post. Usually they don't even look there and when they give it a quick glance, you can tell they have no intention of throwing it in there. Devoe and Hoff follow orders and feed the post. Thus Tubby is starting them.

 

[tjgopher]

I think both were better as freshmen than sophomores. Each can get MUCH better as junior.

I suppose it is all based on perspective and expectations.

As a freshman, Nolen was MacKenzie's backup and asked to just "hold serve" while in there. He was able to "hide" on the floor offensively, play solid defense, and get by. He averaged 4 pts per game, 3.5 assists. Okay production, but not great. But fine for the role he was asked to serve.

As a sophomore, Nolen is asked to be the running the offense as the main cog. There's no Coleman or MacKenzie or Tollackson. He is asked to do much more. He's a first-time starter. He's averaging 7 pts, 4.5 assists, etc. So, his numbers are clearly up from last year. But, now that his role has changed, you could say he hasn't filled his role as well.

So, I think the numbers indicate he's been better this year (based solely on numbers). But, I think you're right, if you frame it like this - he filled last year's role better than he's filled this year's role.

It would be great to see him get much better next year, you're right about that.