Kai Shinholster back

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topos said:
Name This Player:

Freshman Year Stats: Min: 4.0/ PTS: 1.0 / AST: 0.4 / 3PT%: 33%
Junior Year Stats: Min: 21.8 / PTS: 5.9 / AST: 1.5 /3PT%: 29%
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It is Nique Clifford (before transfering to Colorado St).

Niko didn't "reward" Kai with a spot. Niko is playing for keeps, and if he didn't think Kai could cut it, he wouldn't allocate precious NIL to him.

Kai's potential is far more valuable than your simple mind can comprehend.

And the fact that Kai got to taste significant playing time, sees an abundance of talented guards being brought in to compete directly with him for minutes, but stays put; says a lof about his character and his mindset. He's a winner.
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Yup, I agree with everything you said. However, like I said, if he plays meaningful minutes in 26-27 either he blew up, which ya, is possible, or several other guys are unable to perform. We are in the Big Ten...and we are counting on an awful lot of guys who have "potential". That's all.
 

WilliamsArenaGuy said:
I'm also sorry, but you are just not a very good contributor here.
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I know, golly, the nerve, the complete audacity, the gall that someone might have a different opinion than you. And on a message board, no less. Disgusting.
 

Shinholster was an 18 year old freshman playing in a stacked league of grown ass men. He’s athletic, 6’5”, and right on track for a freshman. He just needs to eat, lift weights, and get older.

I would expect a big jump in productivity over the next couple years with his obvious skill set. We should praise kids like Asuma, Grove, and Shinholster for sticking with their teams.
 


howeda7 said:
I think he will be the 9th or 10th player. I expect Tomes to be ahead of him in the rotation eventually if not on day 1.
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Curious why you think Tomes will get more run then Shinholster. Kai is significantly taller and a shooting guard with a year under his belt in the program vs. Tomes who is quite a bit smaller and a PG.

Would seem to me that Groves is far more likely to be in direct competition with Shinholster for minutes next year. Tomes feels like an ideal redshirt candidate. Give him a year to add some size/strength while Evans and Asuma handle PG duties this year.

You could certainly end up being right but curious what leads you to that conclusion?
 
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Gold Vision said:
Shinholster was an 18 year old freshman playing in a stacked league of grown ass men. He’s athletic, 6’5”, and right on track for a freshman. He just needs to eat, lift weights, and get older.

I would expect a big jump in productivity over the next couple years with his obvious skill set. We should praise kids like Asuma, Grove, and Shinholster for sticking with their teams.
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Well said. Fans have a tendency to look at players as finished products and not account for the massive amount of growth and development that occurs over the course of a players career.

Many also underestimate the massive jump it is from high school to college.

Asuma made big strides from his freshman to sophomore years and the minutes Kai got this year should help speed up his development as well.

Lots of unknows with the new faces and incoming freshman but I won't be shocked if Shinholster is a key part of the backcourt rotation next year.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Curious why you think Tomes will get more run then Shinholster. Kai is significantly taller and a shooting guard with a year under his belt in the program vs. Tomes who is quite a bit smaller and a PG.

Would seem to me that Groves is far more likely to be in direct competition with Shinholster for minutes next year. Tomes feels like an ideal redshirt candidate. Give him a year to add some size/strength while Evans and Asuma handle PG duties this year.

You could certainly end up being right but curious what leads you to that conclusion?
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Shinholster didn't play much this year, even when we only had 6 or 7 guys. He seems pretty limited offensively. Just speculation that Tomes has higher upside and might be tracking to be the starting PG in 27-28.
 

howeda7 said:
Shinholster didn't play much this year, even when we only had 6 or 7 guys. He seems pretty limited offensively. Just speculation that Tomes has higher upside and might be tracking to be the starting PG in 27-28.
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At present, we have no data regarding Tomes in the B1G. We have data on Shinholster. We also know that Niko did not encourage him to leave. This tells me that Niko sees something positive in Kai, which keeps me positive about his sophomore year.
 

I honestly did not see him coming back, but that shows the trust Niko has in him and development. The kid is 6'5" 175 and we'll see what a full offseason program does for him.

Evans is 6'2"
Tomes is 6'0"
Asuma is 6'3"

I also think people generally look at the offensive statistics first when evaluating players and coaches look at the defensive end.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
I honestly did not see him coming back, but that shows the trust Niko has in him and development. The kid is 6'5" 175 and we'll see what a full offseason program does for him.

Evans is 6'2"
Tomes is 6'0"
Asuma is 6'3"

I also think people generally look at the offensive statistics first when evaluating players and coaches look at the defensive end.
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I would contend against your last statement. Coaches look for offensive skills because fundamental offensive problems are much harder to correct than defensive problems. Speed, height, and agility are important when added to offensive skill set. That's the important physical piece. Then comes the mental piece. How deep down will they go to defend their own basket? That is important, but not over offensive skills. We can agree to disagree.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I also think people generally look at the offensive statistics first when evaluating players and coaches look at the defensive end.
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I would put it more like fans tend to get caught up using statistics as their means of evaluating players whereas coaches are going to evaluate their entire game while also projecting out what they see them developing into.
 

FinnGopher said:
I would contend against your last statement. Coaches look for offensive skills because fundamental offensive problems are much harder to correct than defensive problems. Speed, height, and agility are important when added to offensive skill set. That's the important physical piece. Then comes the mental piece. How deep down will they go to defend their own basket? That is important, but not over offensive skills. We can agree to disagree.
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I'd be curious to find out from any current/former college basketball coaches that might check in on this forum from time to time to give us their experience as to whether it's offensive or defensive issues that seem to be easier to correct.

From what I've seen from some of the teams I've been pretty close to is that often times, offensive issues are generally physical and with some technical/fundamental tweaks and lots of off-season work, can be corrected or improved greatly. I've seen it with ball-handling, shooting and free-throw shooting.

Defensive issues can also be physical in terms of foot speed, quickness, strength, which can also be improved during the off-season. But many defensive issues are more mental, in terms of picking up team defensive concepts and instinctive recognition/reaction of/to what the other team is trying to do and immediately adapting or implementing with-out having to think about it. I've seen kids really struggle with the mental part of playing defense with-in the team concept. In some cases, they never pick it up 100% and lose playing time.

Much of my experience and some conversations with coaches indicates that if you struggle with offense, (but don't turn the ball over too much) you can still get floor time. But if you can't or won't play defense, it's tougher to earn playing time.

Anyway, it would be awesome if any actual college basketball coaches would like to chime in on these thoughts.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I would put it more like fans tend to get caught up using statistics as their means of evaluating players whereas coaches are going to evaluate their entire game while also projecting out what they see them developing into.
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I think you're correct. Seems, more and more, that fans generally "rely" on stats to define a players ability. I think most coaches will use stats as a tool, but actually "rely" on the day-to-day eye test of what a player is doing in practice, drills, and during games to define a players ability.
 





FinnGopher said:
At present, we have no data regarding Tomes in the B1G. We have data on Shinholster. We also know that Niko did not encourage him to leave. This tells me that Niko sees something positive in Kai, which keeps me positive about his sophomore year.
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And how do you know that? Maybe no one else wanted him…
 

MNVCGUY said:
I would put it more like fans tend to get caught up using statistics as their means of evaluating players whereas coaches are going to evaluate their entire game while also projecting out what they see them developing into.
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It’s probably fair to say the coaches know a hell of a lot more than any loser on this message board
 







60's Guy said:
Enter Kai Shinholster. He's not here to play unless things go terribly wrong. It's nice Niko rewarded him with a spot.

We are in the Big Ten...yes, we could root for a team of guys like Shinholster. We can cheer for him to get better, (and he will) but if he plays often we are not winning very frequently.
We need 9, 10, 11 guys who are better to compete in the Big Ten if we are going to maintain 11th place.

Sorry, that's the truth.
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Quite literally, the bolded was not true last year. But even if we assume that it will be this year, one of the 9, 10, 11 guys who need to be better includes sophomore Kai Shinholster > freshman Kai Shinholster. I like the odds of that being true.

If Shinholster plays the 8th, 9th, or 10th most minutes on the team next season, his spot in the rotation will have moved down, while presumably being a better player. Most of this board understands that and, taken in combination with the respect people have for his effort last season and the fact that he wants to be here, feel like his return should be celebrated rather than denigrated.

Most are not upset with you because you have a different opinion than them, they are upset with you because you're being shitty towards a player on the team for no reason.
 

Scottsdale Gopher said:
Quite literally, the bolded was not true last year. But even if we assume that it will be this year, one of the 9, 10, 11 guys who need to be better includes sophomore Kai Shinholster > freshman Kai Shinholster. I like the odds of that being true.

If Shinholster plays the 8th, 9th, or 10th most minutes on the team next season, his spot in the rotation will have moved down, while presumably being a better player. Most of this board understands that and, taken in combination with the respect people have for his effort last season and the fact that he wants to be here, feel like his return should be celebrated rather than denigrated.

Most are not upset with you because you have a different opinion than them, they are upset with you because you're being shitty towards a player on the team for no reason.
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Well said. Have said in other posts.....a lot of fans are way too quick to judge players based on how they play as freshman. Kai wasn't great last year but he was also a true freshman being asked to play a much bigger role then he was almost certainly ready for.

Will be interesting to see how he continues to develop in the off season and hopefully the experience from this year helps him be an even bigger factor next year.
 

Scottsdale Gopher said:
Quite literally, the bolded was not true last year. But even if we assume that it will be this year, one of the 9, 10, 11 guys who need to be better includes sophomore Kai Shinholster > freshman Kai Shinholster. I like the odds of that being true.

If Shinholster plays the 8th, 9th, or 10th most minutes on the team next season, his spot in the rotation will have moved down, while presumably being a better player. Most of this board understands that and, taken in combination with the respect people have for his effort last season and the fact that he wants to be here, feel like his return should be celebrated rather than denigrated.

Most are not upset with you because you have a different opinion than them, they are upset with you because you're being shitty towards a player on the team for no reason.
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Agree with all you have said except for the last two words..."no reason". On paper, Big Ten Standings Outlook thread on Gopherhole....the Gophers at best slot in at #13 for the coming season.

We are totally counting on Niko to be a miracle worker. We have a roster of guys who have to get better. Cade Tyson averaged 19.6 ppg ... he was very consistent! We need to replace him. His poor games were scoring 12. He scored more than 20 points about half the games...when he didn't get 20 he was close. That's a lot to replace. We argue Niko will "develop" somebody into that production...Niko has to because we have recruited nobody on our roster who has done it before in college. Just one facet.

Meanwhile, the rosters of our opponents are stuffed with guys who have already averaged double figures in points per game scoring...as just one experience metric. We do not have this. We have 3 ... and if there isn't a Tyson and a Reynolds to occupy the other teams two best defenders we need somebody to step up or our returning three will have to improve a lot to just maintain 10 ppg versus better defenders.

I'm happy for Kai. Objectively, I just feel we need better players on our roster to maintain our 11th place finish. AND, I'd like us to do better than that.
 

60's Guy said:
We are totally counting on Niko to be a miracle worker.
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An alternative way of looking at it for those of us not willing to throw in the towel before the team even takes the court is to say: We are totally counting on Niko to be a good judge of talent able to find players who he knows will thrive in his system.

He was able to do that at CSU and he made a group that should have been crushed on nightly basis (due to lack of depth and size) competitive most nights.
 

MNVCGUY said:
An alternative way of looking at it for those of us not willing to throw in the towel before the team even takes the court is to say: We are totally counting on Niko to be a good judge of talent able to find players who he knows will thrive in his system.

He was able to do that at CSU and he made a group that should have been crushed on nightly basis (due to lack of depth and size) competitive most nights.
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The Gophers by their roster construction are choosing a starting line behind most teams in the conference. The other teams are developing proven contributors at the college level. We are choosing to develop guys with little college production but with nice potential at the college level.

The last three years in the Mountain West, since Richard Pitino had time to build his New Mexico program he was 5 and 2 vs Colorado St. and Niko. Overall, Niko was 61 and 42 in those 3 years. Richard Pitino was 74 and 33. So yes, Niko develops competitive teams but our former coach wins more games. Now, Niko faces an upgrade in coaches and competition. Last year was an amazing coaching accomplishment by Niko! Is it repeatable?

No way have I given up on Niko. I am saying the route we are going is making the task harder than it has to be.
 

60's Guy said:
The Gophers by their roster construction are choosing a starting line behind most teams in the conference. The other teams are developing proven contributors at the college level. We are choosing to develop guys with little college production but with nice potential at the college level.

The last three years in the Mountain West, since Richard Pitino had time to build his New Mexico program he was 5 and 2 vs Colorado St. and Niko. Overall, Niko was 61 and 42 in those 3 years. Richard Pitino was 74 and 33. So yes, Niko develops competitive teams but our former coach wins more games. Now, Niko faces an upgrade in coaches and competition. Last year was an amazing coaching accomplishment by Niko! Is it repeatable?

No way have I given up on Niko. I am saying the route we are going is making the task harder than it has to be.
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I would disagree slightly that Niko is proposing to "develop guys". I believe he thinks these are guys who have been hidden on some loaded rosters. Evans has already been developed. Kordel and Grady were coveted frosh recruits that didn't get a shot on a national championship roster.

Nolen Groves is the most developmental of the transfer portal guys.

We have four guys who have average double figures under Niko- Evans, JCJ, Durkin and Asuma.

Watch and see. Niko will have this team playing the best team ball of any Big Ten team, but with mid level talent in this conference. I feel pretty good about finding a spot in the top nine of the Big 18.
 
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bga1 said:
I would disagree slightly that Niko is proposing to "develop guys". I believe he thinks these are guys who have been hidden on some loaded rosters. Evans has already been developed. Kordel and Grady were coveted frosh recruits that didn't get a shot on a national championship roster.

Nolen Groves is the most developmental of the transfer portal guys.

We have four guys who have average double figures under Niko- Evans, JCJ, Durkin and Asuma.

Watch and see. Niko will have this team playing the best team ball of any Big Ten team, but with mid level talent in this conference. I feel pretty good about finding a spot in the top nine of the Big 18.
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I'm not ruling it out. But, to accomplish it will take another amazing coaching accomplishment by Niko. Remember, we were 15 and 18. To get there was a mighty struggle. There are 12 teams in the Big Ten clearly better on paper. If things go well, I'd agree we can get to 9th, 10th and in the dance...and if we did it'd be so fun...because it will be such a struggle once again. Another amazing accomplishment. But, it is also the route Niko is choosing by the players on the roster.
Nobody would be happier if we finish top 10 of the Big Ten.
 

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