Fleck: This is still a developmental program. Year nine has nothing to do with it. Every year is its own entity. We lost nine NFL players last year…

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BilldGopher said:
Someone may have left a pair of freshly opened HotHands on his seat and he mistook it for another kind of heat...

I think this should be taken as a positive. Apparently there is a minimum expectation for the program beyond just what us fans think.

Probably need a new banner in the practice facility to go with "Change Your Best" that reads "8 Wins or Bust"...including a bowl game...
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I would be happy with a banner that said "we occasionally tell the truth"
 

tjgopher said:
On one hand, I get the frustration here, I think last year's team left some meat on the bone for sure. Not too far from a 9-win season, even 10-win if all fell right. Rutgers loss was a top five bad loss in PJ era and the UNC loss was bad not because the kicker missed it, but because the coaches didn't believe in Brosmer yet. They should have. That game played a month later is a two TD win for MN.

That said, I also agree with PJ's point. People shouting about year nine is dumb. At programs like Minnesota, it isn't linear. Its not an easy job. There will be ebbs and flows. And now with the portal, each year is a new one in a new way. In some ways that could make is easier to never have a down year, in others it can make it harder to hit a top peak due to player movement.

I think there are legit reasons you could be mad about things currently. But, I really think screaming Year Nine is a lazy argument in my opinion. I love Chip Scoggins, great writer. Every time he's on the radio or a podcast he always uses the Year Nine thing as a negative to PJ. Drives me nuts. He is one of the few in this market who gets college football. He should know better. It isn't linear.

"Year Nine" examples (trying to find comparable programs):

Kirk Ferentz (Year Nine at Iowa): 6-6 (Year Seven was 10-2)
Hayden Fry (Year Nine at Iowa): 10-3 (Year 10 was 6-4-3, Year 11 was 5-7)
Barry Alvarez (Year Nine at Wis): 11-1 (Year 12 was 5-7)
Glen Mason (Year Nine at MN): 7-6 (Year Ten was 6-6 and he was fired)
Gary Pinkel (Year Nine at Mizzou): 8-5 (Year 12 was 5-7, Year 13 was 12-2)
Bill Snyder (Year Nine at K-State): 11-1 (Year 13 6-6, Year 16 4-7)
Mark Dantonio (Year Nine at MSU): 12-2 (Year 10 was 3-9)

There just isn't any such thing as a linear line in college football, particularly at spots like Minnesota. It will ebb and flow. I might add, it is amazing when looking these up how much the ebbs and flows are directly related to quarterback play. Getting great QB play is probably the single biggest factor in winning big at places like Minnesota. That's why if they keep Lindsey it is worth seeing this thing through.

Again, plenty to complain about if you want. But, saying Year Nine as a reason to think it should be better is just dumb.
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Sounds like someone attended the PJ Fleck school of excuses. You may not agree with the Year 9 argument but calling it lazy and dumb while accepting mediocracy is pretty sad.
 


West Fargo Gopher Fan said:
Love coach Fleck I really do but this is stupid. I don't like this at all.
Theres definitely at least two losses on the coaching staff this season that should have been wins.
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Fleck is basically saying that they should have a peak season every 3-5 years based on development and recruiting.

Last year should have been the season. They lost a one point game to PSU, 3 to Michigan, missed FG against UNC, 7 to Rutgers and led Iowa at halftime before getting run. Lots of variables but last year was the team that could compete at a high level.

This year is a rebuild and the team wasn’t competitive against good teams. They struggled to beat comparable teams. They showed to be a 6-6 team.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Fleck is basically saying that they should have a peak season every 3-5 years based on development and recruiting.

Last year should have been the season. They lost a one point game to PSU, 3 to Michigan, missed FG against UNC, 7 to Rutgers and led Iowa at halftime before getting run. Lots of variables but last year was the team that could compete at a high level.

This year is a rebuild and the team wasn’t competitive against good teams. They struggled to beat comparable teams. They showed to be a 6-6 team.
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What he is saying is revisionist and dumb.
 


BronkosGhost said:
You may not agree with the Year 9 argument but calling it lazy and dumb while accepting mediocracy is pretty sad.
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He provided empirical evidence to support his claim that later years of a coach's tenure are no sure thing and there is nothing exceptional at all about a year 9 or 10 or 12 being worse than a year 4 or 5. That's not saying that the coaches haven't made recruiting and coaching errors in this season.

You've provided nothing to support your opinion that his view is "sad."
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Fleck is basically saying that they should have a peak season every 3-5 years based on development and recruiting.

Last year should have been the season. They lost a one point game to PSU, 3 to Michigan, missed FG against UNC, 7 to Rutgers and led Iowa at halftime before getting run. Lots of variables but last year was the team that could compete at a high level.

This year is a rebuild and the team wasn’t competitive against good teams. They struggled to beat comparable teams. They showed to be a 6-6 team.
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Well said, but one correction: Kesich missed TWO field goals against UNC (in a game we lost by two points).
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It's college football... there's no keeping players for 10 years.

It's always changing.

Based on talent level ... I'd argue that last years team actually underachieved and this years has to some extent overachieved.
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This. The 9 players that left for the NFL matter. Minnesota is not the Ohio College of Non-Graduates.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
He provided empirical evidence to support his claim that later years of a coach's tenure are no sure thing and there is nothing exceptional at all about a year 9 or 10 or 12 being worse than a year 4 or 5. That's not saying that the coaches haven't made recruiting and coaching errors in this season.

You've provided nothing to support your opinion that his view is "sad."
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There's not a single peice of empirical evidence to support his claim since this whole argument is opinion based.
I guess I could do a lengthy internet search in an attempt to weave together some EVIDENCE to bolster my side of the discussion but the reality is im just tired of mediocracy. Im also tired of a coach more capable of making up excuses and slogans than coming up with a game plan to beat teams with lesser or equal talent.
So I guess the more appropriate question is whats sadder accepting mediocracy or hoping for a better result?
 



BronkosGhost said:
There's not a single peice of empirical evidence to support his claim since this whole argument is opinion based.
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Really? From his post ------

Kirk Ferentz (Year Nine at Iowa): 6-6 (Year Seven was 10-2)
Hayden Fry (Year Nine at Iowa): 10-3 (Year 10 was 6-4-3, Year 11 was 5-7)
Barry Alvarez (Year Nine at Wis): 11-1 (Year 12 was 5-7)
Glen Mason (Year Nine at MN): 7-6 (Year Ten was 6-6 and he was fired)
Gary Pinkel (Year Nine at Mizzou): 8-5 (Year 12 was 5-7, Year 13 was 12-2)
Bill Snyder (Year Nine at K-State): 11-1 (Year 13 6-6, Year 16 4-7)
Mark Dantonio (Year Nine at MSU): 12-2 (Year 10 was 3-9)
 

Heard retired Rosen on KFan the other day and it’s just pure lazy to even have him commenting on Gophers. Literally everything he said was of not having done one bit of research. Knew nothing about players. Knew nothing about the season. Just said it was year 9 and same old same old.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Really? From his post ------

Kirk Ferentz (Year Nine at Iowa): 6-6 (Year Seven was 10-2)
Hayden Fry (Year Nine at Iowa): 10-3 (Year 10 was 6-4-3, Year 11 was 5-7)
Barry Alvarez (Year Nine at Wis): 11-1 (Year 12 was 5-7)
Glen Mason (Year Nine at MN): 7-6 (Year Ten was 6-6 and he was fired)
Gary Pinkel (Year Nine at Mizzou): 8-5 (Year 12 was 5-7, Year 13 was 12-2)
Bill Snyder (Year Nine at K-State): 11-1 (Year 13 6-6, Year 16 4-7)
Mark Dantonio (Year Nine at MSU): 12-2 (Year 10 was 3-9)
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Posting records of random coaches isn’t evidence. Like i said this is all an opinion based argument either you agree with Fleck or you dont.
 

BronkosGhost said:
Posting records of random coaches isn’t evidence. Like i said this is all an opinion based argument either you agree with Fleck or you dont.
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If you were following the argument it was. The argument was whether there was anything about Year 9 (or any advanced year of a coach's tenure) that should make it impervious to being a disappointing year. The answer is "no."
 



BronkosGhost said:
Sounds like someone attended the PJ Fleck school of excuses. You may not agree with the Year 9 argument but calling it lazy and dumb while accepting mediocracy is pretty sad.
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Yeah, because if I shake my fist and say dammit, I'm not going to accept mediocrity, it will overnight just change and we'll be Georgia.

I literally said in the post, there are things to complain about and I understand why people are frustrated. I just don't believe the Year Nine argument is one of the things worth complaining about.

You sound like someone who just feels better by bitching. And, that's fine, too. We all need to cope somehow. No worries on my end.
 

mngg11 said:
People tend to perceive program development as if it were in a video game, where year to year progression is just that, a constant climb without any regression until five star program status is achieved. The reality is that it does ebb and flow. That being said, I do expect our defensive schemes to make fucking sense if we aren't able to field an Alabama-esque defense in year nine
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The lack if understanding of that difference has been difficult to understand for several more causal sports fans. Recruit better is not all that comparable to draft better. It is far closer to the pre-draft era of pro sports with you find the player you sign the player.
 

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