What happened to the concept of a Non-Qualifier?

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Sparlimb

Sparlimb

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Anyone remember, back in the day, we'd recruit these kids, we'd sweat out signing day to find out if they could get a C- and qualify? We lost lots of kids to not qualifying, had lots of discussions about whether we had harder or easier entrance requirements then Wisconsin. Saw kids that we thought we wanted, go juco. Like this whole discussion stopped many years ago and I'm not sure if its because a rule changed and we can take anyone now, or if because our recruiting stopped sucking so bad that we had to scrape the bottom of the barrels to get kids. Anyone know?
 

It still happens. Recruiting news at other schools mentions these stations now and then.

I think PJ just doesn't take many chances on those guys that don't pan out like other schools do / we used to.

I'm sure PJ takes some chances, but I think guys not doing the basic school work is very much not his thing and considering his rules about going to class / being in the front row ... I think some guys get the message, maybe filter themselves out too.
 
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A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It still happens. Recruiting news at other schools mentions these stations now and then.

I think PJ just doesn't take many chances on those guys that don't pan out like other schools do / we used to.

I'm sure PJ takes some chances, but I think guys not doing the basic school work is very much not his thing and considering his rules about going to class / being in the front row ... I think some guys get the message, maybe filter themselves out too.
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Really? I haven’t seen much about this or academic Ineligibility from other schools. I don’t know if we can give credit to PJ for this.
 

WoodburyTim said:
Really? I haven’t seen much about this or academic Ineligibility from other schools. I don’t know if we can give credit to PJ for this.
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I think with our APR and other publicly available academic metrics associated with the guys in our program, we can 100% attribute this to Fleck's recruiting and non-football expectations
 




mngg11 said:
I think with our APR and other publicly available academic metrics associated with the guys in our program, we can 100% attribute this to Fleck's recruiting and non-football expectations
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Hey I think that is awesome for our program, but PJ is not the reason that college athletics now cares little to none about academics and that is what is being discussed here.
 

WoodburyTim said:
Good Lord. I get that this is by its nature a fan site, but some level of perspective should be expected.

It is exactly like talking to Packer fans. Extremely passionate but not particularly knowledgeable or realistic.
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I don't know what you mean.
 




WoodburyTim said:
Hey I think that is awesome for our program, but PJ is not the reason that college athletics now cares little to none about academics and that is what is being discussed here.
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You choosing to straw man such a simple question is fascinating. What's your angle?

The topic was a general question about reach/academic non-qual recruits across football, if they still exist, and if our program still deals with them.

If you combine the information relayed by both slab and I, yes, this still exists in college football, and no, it no longer exists as part of this program because we have a coach who holds both the team and himself accountable in the "intangible/academic/non-football" department. We don't recruit substantial reach prospects because they don't fit the culture.
 

Seems to me like both parts of this argument are correct.

The Fleck Era has recruited fewer academically marginal players, encouraged a stronger culture of responsibility, and has seen the program's APR rise to be one of the best in major college football.

And it's also become exceedingly rare for a player to be publicly declared academically ineligible at any major school I'm aware of. Can anyone name the last player of note at any program to not play because he didn't make grades or entrance test scores?
 

The NCAA APR Rankings are still applicable even with NIL, the transfer portal and the professionalization of the sport. The NCAA looks at the academic standing for the previous year for all sports at all 136 schools to determine how many players stayed in school in good academic standing and remained eligible to play.

Schools need to win six games to be eligible for a bowl game. If there aren't enough teams available, the five-win team with the highest APR usually gets the bowl slot.

Two seasons ago, a 5-7 Minnesota team got to play in the Quick Lane Bowl because of its high APR ranking.

MINNESOTA GOPHERS 2024-25 BY THE NUMBERS​

▸ Student-athletes semester GPA: 3.45 (Spring 2025)
For the sixth consecutive semester, all sport programs are above a 3.0 GPA in both their semester and cumulative GPAs

▸ Student-athlete cumulative GPA: 3.46 (Spring 2025)
School Record

▸ Graduation Success Rate: 95%

▸ Academic Progress Rate (APR): 14 programs with a perfect APR score; six programs have a perfect 1,000 multiyear rate

▸ Academic All-Americans: 8
T-4th in Big Ten / T-8th in Nation

▸ Academic All-District: 62
1st in Big Ten / 1st in Nation

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​

NCAA APR Rankings 2025 - Top 10​

(136 Schools)​

1 Ohio State Buckeyes​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 1000
Last Year’s APR Ranking: 1
APR (2022-2023) 1000

2 Alabama Crimson Tide​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 998
Last Year’s APR Ranking: 2
APR (2022-2023) 997

T3 North Carolina Tar Heels​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 996
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T3
APR (2022-2023) 996

T3 Michigan Wolverines​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 996
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T7
APR (2022-2023) 993

T5 Clemson Tigers​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 995
Last Year’s APR Ranking: 5
APR (2022-2023) 995

T5 Wake Forest Demon Deacons​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 995
Last Year’s APR Ranking: 12
APR (2022-2023) 991

7 Cincinnati Bearcats​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 994
Last Year’s APR Ranking: 6
APR (2022-2023) 994

8 Northwestern Wildcats​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 993
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T3
APR (2022-2023) 996

T9 Air Force Falcons​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 992
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T9
APR (2022-2023) 992

T9 Minnesota Golden Gophers​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 992
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T9
APR (2022-2023) 992

​

NCAA APR Rankings 2025: Big 10​

(National Ranking in Parentheses)

1 (1) Ohio State Buckeyes​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 1000
Last Year’s APR Ranking: 1
APR (2022-2023) 1000

2 (T3) Michigan Wolverines​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 996
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T7
APR (2022-2023) 993

3 (8) Northwestern Wildcats​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 993
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T3
APR (2022-2023) 996

4 (T9) Minnesota Golden Gophers​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 992
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T9
APR (2022-2023) 992

5 (T11) Wisconsin Badgers​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 991
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T7
APR (2022-2023) 993

6 (T36) Indiana Hoosiers​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 982
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T28
APR (2022-2023) 983

7 (T36) Iowa Hawkeyes​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 982
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T58
APR (2022-2023) 974

8 (T53) Washington Huskies​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 978
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T32
APR (2022-2023) 982

9 (T53) Rutgers Scarlet Knights​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 978
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T66
APR (2022-2023) 972

10 (T56) USC Trojans​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 976
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T56
APR (2022-2023) 976

11 (T56)Nebraska Cornhuskers​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 976
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T66
APR (2022-2023) 972

12 (T67) Purdue Boilermakers​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 972
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T56
APR (2022-2023) 976

13 (T70) Illinois Fighting Illini​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 971
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T79
APR (2022-2023) 967

14 (T79) Michigan State Spartans​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 968
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T58
APR (2022-2023) 974

15 (T81) UCLA Bruins​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 967
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T66
APR (2022-2023) 972

16 (T90) Maryland Terrapins​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 962
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T122
APR (2022-2023) 942

17 (T119) Penn State Nittany Lions​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 947
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T116
APR (2022-2023) 947

18 (122) Oregon Ducks​

Latest APR (2023-2024): 946
Last Year’s APR Ranking: T124
APR (2022-2023) 941


sports.yahoo.com

NCAA APR Rankings 2025: Academic Progress Rate Scores for All 136 Football Schools

How good were all 136 FBS college football schools at keeping players on track to graduate? Here are the 2025 APR rankings.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com
 
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Bottom line for me is I don't think the NCAA cares about this as much as it used to.

I agree with many here that academic risk doesn't seem to hit the recruiting news the way it used to. I'm pretty sure recruits haven't gotten smarter, but maybe high schools find ways to help them academically with tutoring and test prep. There are "recruiting coaches" out there (my daughter was a good gymnast and one of these guys did contact us about the services he provided). I don't know if these guys are on the up-and-up, but they may provide some insight to recruits about what they have to do to both graduate and do well enough on test scores so that they can be matched with a college program that fits their profile.

I think the other angle that with the portal, recruits with dicey acadmeics first head to 4-year schools with low entrance requirements, play a year or two to get things in order, and then transfer up if they have succeeded on the field. It's kind of like General College was at the U before it went the way of the dinosaur.

Not to hijack, but I believe I shared a story from my youth that I used to date a girl who attended General College. There were no cures for cancer rolling around her extremely attractive head, but she was smart enough to dump me (and rather unceremoniously at that).

I recall stories of former football coaches fighting with the U administration to get kids in and that pretty much ended with Kill. He did hit the junior college ranks fairly hard, which Fleck hasn't done a lot of. I remember Brewster's highest profile class had several commits that either didn't get in or left quickly.

In a second hijack attempt, this whole discussion reminds me about Sid would periodically throw a fit--especially after the elimination of General College--that the University didn't have a Sports Administration program or some such thing.
 



NCAA academic entry requirements have changed; specifically, the NCAA removed the standardized test requirement in 2020: https://honestgame.com/blog/ncaa-test-score-ruling/

This was abolished in favor of a 16 Core Course requirement and Core GPA. I would assume this change has made the academic component of recruiting infinitely easier for all coaches. Rather than encountering an athlete that is either scraping by (or at a school inflating their grades) and worrying about how their test is going pan out, the coach can have conversations with the HS coaches and teachers to understand whether or not they will be able to navigate the academic expectations of the program.

I'm a big PJ fan, and how he handles the off-field elements of the program are a big reason why. But it's worth noting the current APR score is aligned with where Jerry Kill finished: https://www.twincities.com/2017/05/...ches-program-record-for-multiyear-apr-scores/
 

50PoundHead said:
I recall stories of former football coaches fighting with the U administration to get kids in and that pretty much ended with Kill. He did hit the junior college ranks fairly hard, which Fleck hasn't done a lot of. I remember Brewster's highest profile class had several commits that either didn't get in or left quickly.
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I think Kill kind of had to hit the Juco ranks because of how many washouts and screwups Brew brought in.
 

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