Fleck's bad losses at MN

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Schnauzer

Schnauzer

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The context of "bad losses" here is not games where the Gophers played a tough opponent and got blown out when playing poorly on top of being an underdog. I'm simply referring to games against bad opponents that the Gophers had no business losing, but did. So, games like the 2019 matchup with Wisconsin were incredibly disappointing and the Gophers were favorites, but the opponent was good and a loss wasn't outside the realm of possibilities.

Given the following list (admittedly your list may be a bit different), are the head scratchers becoming more common in recent years? Is there a pattern to them? I mean, it isn't something like "always on the road" or "always against MAC teams when it happens". These stinkers just seem to be random, but becoming slightly more likely in recent years.

2017 NONE - Gophers weren't very good so there wasn't a "stinker" in the sense there was a game that should have easily been won but was lost.

2018 NONE - Gophers were improving and there were some disappointments like at Illinois, but not necessarily a head scratching loss.

2019 NONE - although Georgia Southern and maybe Fresno State each came incredibly close to being stinkers

2020 PASS - just a wacky covid year. Not making any observations on that one

2021 Bowling Green 10-14 - the stinker of all stinkers, possibly starting a concerning trend

2022 Purdue 10-20 - Homecoming stinker in front of an actual successful "stripe out" crowd.

2023 at Purdue 30-49, at Northwestern 34-37 (OT) - two road B1G stinkers

2024 at Rutgers 19-26, stinker in the most "Minnesota way" possible, dropping game to an ex player playing better than he did at Minnesota.
 

I think if you looked at most mid-level programs you would find that they tend to have a couple of these a year as well. Doesn't mean we can't criticize, but as far as whether I think it is a concerning trend, I would say no. Even on the list that you laid out, some of these were bowl teams so it's not like they were just total head scratching losses. Heck that 2022 Purdue team won the Big Ten West.
 

Here are the losses against teams that finished with a losing record:
  • 2017 Maryland, 4-8 (2-7)
  • 2018 Maryland, 5-7 (3-6)
  • 2018 Nebraska, 4-8 (3-6)
  • 2018 Illinois, 4-8 (2-7)
  • 2020 Michigan, 2-4
  • 2020 Maryland, 2-3
  • 2021 Bowling Green, 4-8
  • 2021 Illinois, 5-7 (4-5)
  • 2023 Illinois, 4-7 (3-6)
  • 2023 Purdue, 4-8 (3-6)
  • 2024 North Carolina, 6-7, Lost Fenway Bowl
Considering it was a MAC team and not even one of the stronger programs from that conference, it probably has to be Bowling Green. Though that Purdue loss in 2023 is up there as well, even though they finished with a winning record.

The Gophers had outscored their opponents in the first four games 183-14. They were ranked No. 21. It was Homecoming. The stadium was full with the stripe-out. Minnesota came out that day nad just absolutely flopped.

What's been good about the Gophers in each season is their ability to bounce back. There have been a few tough stumbles along the way, but Fleck usually picks them back up for the next week.
 

Great points, observations so far. Listing the losses to opponents with losing records is particularly helpful.
 

IceBoxGopher said:
Here are the losses against teams that finished with a losing record:
  • 2017 Maryland, 4-8 (2-7)
  • 2018 Maryland, 5-7 (3-6)
  • 2018 Nebraska, 4-8 (3-6)
  • 2018 Illinois, 4-8 (2-7)
  • 2020 Michigan, 2-4
  • 2020 Maryland, 2-3
  • 2021 Bowling Green, 4-8
  • 2021 Illinois, 5-7 (4-5)
  • 2023 Illinois, 4-7 (3-6)
  • 2023 Purdue, 4-8 (3-6)
  • 2024 North Carolina, 6-7, Lost Fenway Bowl
Considering it was a MAC team and not even one of the stronger programs from that conference, it probably has to be Bowling Green. Though that Purdue loss in 2023 is up there as well, even though they finished with a winning record.

The Gophers had outscored their opponents in the first four games 183-14. They were ranked No. 21. It was Homecoming. The stadium was full with the stripe-out. Minnesota came out that day nad just absolutely flopped.

What's been good about the Gophers in each season is their ability to bounce back. There have been a few tough stumbles along the way, but Fleck usually picks them back up for the next week.
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very well done and researched and it is very clear we're all getting way too stir crazy for football to be back if this is what's filling our time :D
 


Schnauzer said:
2017 NONE - Gophers weren't very good so there wasn't a "stinker" in the sense there was a game that should
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I know it doesn't fit the context of your thread but...

As someone who was in attendance at the 2017 Northwestern game, GOOD GOD.

39-0. Late November game in the freezing rain and wind in Evanston. Demry Croft was 2-11 passing for 43 yards.

Easily the least fun I've ever had at a Gopher road game haha
 

I was also at the 2018 Maryland and Nebraska games which were both pathetic blowouts.

Terps weren't good that season and we were pretty good by the end of the year (game was played in September though).

Nebraska came into that game at 0-6 (pretty sure it was Scott Frost's first career win).
 


Gophers1992 said:
I think if you looked at most mid-level programs you would find that they tend to have a couple of these a year as well. Doesn't mean we can't criticize, but as far as whether I think it is a concerning trend, I would say no. Even on the list that you laid out, some of these were bowl teams so it's not like they were just total head scratching losses. Heck that 2022 Purdue team won the Big Ten West.
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Yeah....I really don't get why some feel the need to fixate on stuff like this. Outside of the teams that are in the National title hunt (and sometimes even those teams) every team has games they lose that they shouldn't on paper.

Turnovers, fluke plays, weather, poor execution....things happen that make it possible for the underdog to spring an upset.

The "bad losses" are frustrating as hell when they happen....but they happen to everyone.....just part of sports.
 



MNVCGUY said:
Yeah....I really don't get why some feel the need to fixate on stuff like this. Outside of the teams that are in the National title hunt (and sometimes even those teams) every team has games they lose that they shouldn't on paper.

Turnovers, fluke plays, weather, poor execution....things happen that make it possible for the underdog to spring an upset.

The "bad losses" are frustrating as hell when they happen....but they happen to everyone.....just part of sports.
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Most of the games listed are also a play or two from swinging the other way, just like many of our wins are a play or two from being losses. Just how it goes.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I know it doesn't fit the context of your thread but...

As someone who was in attendance at the 2017 Northwestern game, GOOD GOD.

39-0. Late November game in the freezing rain and wind in Evanston. Demry Croft was 2-11 passing for 43 yards.

Easily the least fun I've ever had at a Gopher road game haha
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I was at that game and we left pretty much at the start of the 2nd qtr. I was colder, wetter, and more miserable than any cold weather home game. Being soaked on the train back to the loop was just miserable.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I know it doesn't fit the context of your thread but...

As someone who was in attendance at the 2017 Northwestern game, GOOD GOD.

39-0. Late November game in the freezing rain and wind in Evanston. Demry Croft was 2-11 passing for 43 yards.

Easily the least fun I've ever had at a Gopher road game haha
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You and about 200 others (including me) watched that game. Total. Including Northwestern fans.

Agree with everything you said.
 

I think the worst loss of the Fleck era was 2021 Bowling Green.

After that, I put three 2023 losses next in line:
@Northwestern (terrible blown lead)
Illinois (terrible late game melt down)
@Purdue (one of the few times lack of effort and will was apparent in a Fleck-coached team)

Then @Illinois in 2018. Good thing came out of that was Joe Rossi became DC.
Illinois in 2021 was also a bad game. (Glad we finally beat them last year).

Remarkable part of PJ record is he has lost a TOTAL of three non-conference games in his entire time at Minnesota. Bowling Green and two UNC games. That is it. Three. He has some good non-con wins over Auburn, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, West Virginia, Syracuse, Colorado, Oregon State and some good Fresno State teams, and Georgia Southern (barely).
 
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IceBoxGopher said:
Though that Purdue loss in 2023 is up there as well, even though they finished with a winning record.

The Gophers had outscored their opponents in the first four games 183-14. They were ranked No. 21. It was Homecoming. The stadium was full with the stripe-out. Minnesota came out that day nad just absolutely flopped.
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I think you mean 2022 vs. Purdue. We were 4-0 in 2022.

Purdue ended up winning the Big Ten West that year, so the loss was not as bad as we thought at the time. Mo Ibrahim was a game-time decision and did not play in that game. Clearly, would have been a different game had he played, but no guarantees we'd have won. But, even without Mo, it was a big missed opportunity and you're correct the offense laid an egg. That was a time I left the stadium thinking we missed a big chance.

I think the 2023 game @Purdue was worse. One of the few times our team just quit. Didn't care and didn't play hard. Rarely see that out of a Fleck team. I think they were still reeling from that unlikely loss the week before at home to Illinois (my all-time Fleck #2 bad loss). Nothing left in the tank on the road the next week. Just complete deflation and that was Fleck's worse November, going 0-4.
 
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Schnauzer said:
The context of "bad losses" here is not games where the Gophers played a tough opponent and got blown out when playing poorly on top of being an underdog. I'm simply referring to games against bad opponents that the Gophers had no business losing, but did. So, games like the 2019 matchup with Wisconsin were incredibly disappointing and the Gophers were favorites, but the opponent was good and a loss wasn't outside the realm of possibilities.

Given the following list (admittedly your list may be a bit different), are the head scratchers becoming more common in recent years? Is there a pattern to them? I mean, it isn't something like "always on the road" or "always against MAC teams when it happens". These stinkers just seem to be random, but becoming slightly more likely in recent years.

2017 NONE - Gophers weren't very good so there wasn't a "stinker" in the sense there was a game that should have easily been won but was lost.

2018 NONE - Gophers were improving and there were some disappointments like at Illinois, but not necessarily a head scratching loss.

2019 NONE - although Georgia Southern and maybe Fresno State each came incredibly close to being stinkers

2020 PASS - just a wacky covid year. Not making any observations on that one

2021 Bowling Green 10-14 - the stinker of all stinkers, possibly starting a concerning trend

2022 Purdue 10-20 - Homecoming stinker in front of an actual successful "stripe out" crowd.

2023 at Purdue 30-49, at Northwestern 34-37 (OT) - two road B1G stinkers

2024 at Rutgers 19-26, stinker in the most "Minnesota way" possible, dropping game to an ex player playing better than he did at Minnesota.
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Agree on all counts

Getting stomped by Nebraska in 2018 qualifies as a bad loss for me
2022 Purdue is bad but consider we lost our best player during warm ups (Mo)
Also 2022 doesn’t sting as bad knowing the best team in the division was Illinois and they didn’t go either due to two losses to sub .500 teams
 


I must admit I laughed a little when I read this thread. There are people in this world who choose to see the glass empty, and then there are people who see, well, a different picture...

For example, when I recall the 2018 season I think of Morgan taking over at QB and throwing a winning bomb against Indiana. I remember the first feeling of jubilation over the Gopher win against Wisconsin in AGES (in Madison, no less) and the team picture of the guys posing with the Axe. I still smile replaying the dominating win over Georgia Tech in the bowl game, and how Mo Ibrahim made that game his coming out party.

When I reminisce about the 2019 season, I can still feel how thrilling it was, all season long, to watch that team play. Winfield. Morgan. Bateman. Johnson. The amazing quintessential over-achiever Blake Cashman. Jordan Howden's pick against Penn State. The seemingly endless string of key plays in the statement victory against Auburn in the Outback Bowl. I got to see my lifelong team listed in the Top 10 in the national rankings at the finish of that glorious season! That was rare air for this longtime Gopher football fan.

I could go on and on, all the way through the 2024 season... but I think you get the general idea.

To focus on — and even obsess over — this or that loss in this or that season is completely foreign to my nature. It seems to me to be gloomy and even self-defeating. Life is short; enjoy it while you can.

But then... every one of us has to see the world and experience life's events through their own eyes.
 
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oak_street1981 said:
That Bowling Green game took the cake, but the Purdue Homecoming loss and the blow up vs Illinois to waste a win by giving up a massive TD to a back up QB stand out.

Three massive turd sandwiches.

Edit, I forgot the earlier shit sandwich against Illinois two years earlier. Like them or not, those are the kind of piss it down your leg performances that drive away new, on the fence, fans.
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Very true, on the other hand, the win against Nebraska in 2023 was the opposite. I'm sure a few others. We always remember the bad.
 


RememberMurray said:
I must admit I laughed a little when I read this thread. There are people in this world who choose to see the glass empty, and then there are people who see, well, a different picture...

For example, when I recall the 2018 season I think of Morgan taking over at QB and throwing a winning bomb against Indiana. I remember the first feeling of jubilation over the Gopher win against Wisconsin in AGES (in Madison, no less) and the team picture of the guys posing with the Axe. I still smile replaying the dominating win over Georgia Tech in the bowl game, and how Mo Ibrahim made that game his coming out party.

When I reminisce about the 2019 season, I can still feel how thrilling it was, all season long, to watch that team play. Winfield. Morgan. Bateman. Johnson. The amazing quintessential over-achiever Blake Cashman. Jordan Howden's pick against Penn State. The seemingly endless string of key plays in the statement victory against Auburn in the Outback Bowl. I got to see my lifelong team listed in the Top 10 in the national rankings at the finish of that glorious season! That was rare air for this longtime Gopher football fan.

I could go on and on, all the way through the 2024 season... but I think you get the general idea.

To focus on — and even obsess over — this or that loss in this or that season is completely foreign to my nature. It seems to me to be gloomy and even self-defeating. Life is short; enjoy it while you can.

But then... every one of us has to see the world and experience life's events through their own eyes.
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I agree....I don't get why some feel the need to dwell on loses....especially years after they happened.

To each their own though. I'd rather focus on the wins and good things that have happened as opposed to looking for things to complain about.
 

I wouldn’t call the 22 loss to Purdue a bad loss, yes it sucked because of what it cost us, but we were without our best player on offense and it showed terribly. We couldn’t have been much of a favorite. Even Rutgers last year we weren’t a heavy favorite.
 

Schnauzer said:
The context of "bad losses" here is not games where the Gophers played a tough opponent and got blown out when playing poorly on top of being an underdog. I'm simply referring to games against bad opponents that the Gophers had no business losing, but did. So, games like the 2019 matchup with Wisconsin were incredibly disappointing and the Gophers were favorites, but the opponent was good and a loss wasn't outside the realm of possibilities.

Given the following list (admittedly your list may be a bit different), are the head scratchers becoming more common in recent years? Is there a pattern to them? I mean, it isn't something like "always on the road" or "always against MAC teams when it happens". These stinkers just seem to be random, but becoming slightly more likely in recent years.

2017 NONE - Gophers weren't very good so there wasn't a "stinker" in the sense there was a game that should have easily been won but was lost.

2018 NONE - Gophers were improving and there were some disappointments like at Illinois, but not necessarily a head scratching loss.

2019 NONE - although Georgia Southern and maybe Fresno State each came incredibly close to being stinkers

2020 PASS - just a wacky covid year. Not making any observations on that one

2021 Bowling Green 10-14 - the stinker of all stinkers, possibly starting a concerning trend

2022 Purdue 10-20 - Homecoming stinker in front of an actual successful "stripe out" crowd.

2023 at Purdue 30-49, at Northwestern 34-37 (OT) - two road B1G stinkers

2024 at Rutgers 19-26, stinker in the most "Minnesota way" possible, dropping game to an ex player playing better than he did at Minnesota.
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2018 Nebby was absolutely one of those losses. Big red was 0-10 in it's last 10 (0-6 to start 2018) before it beat Gophers.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I know it doesn't fit the context of your thread but...

As someone who was in attendance at the 2017 Northwestern game, GOOD GOD.

39-0. Late November game in the freezing rain and wind in Evanston. Demry Croft was 2-11 passing for 43 yards.

Easily the least fun I've ever had at a Gopher road game haha
Click to expand...
I was there too with my 7 year old son. We left at halftime and drove to the Dells. Worst game experience ever.
 

It's all about how you define it (Captain Obvious).

My list has probably a slightly wider definition than some above, but the only main one missing is 2019 Wisc.

Sorry, can't let that one go.

It's not a "bad loss" but it has to be included if you widen the scope to "games you have to win, come on PJ!"
 

The other bummer thing about 2021-23 seasons is that we had an easy West division, probably as easy as it was ever going to get. And all three years we fumbled a chance to win the division, via the games shown above. Which includes 2022 Purdue homecoming for me.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I agree....I don't get why some feel the need to dwell on loses....especially years after they happened.

To each their own though. I'd rather focus on the wins and good things that have happened as opposed to looking for things to complain about.
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Spot on.
 

RememberMurray said:
Spot on.
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A movie scene that has always stuck with me is this one from the Might Ducks.....


In the end it all comes down to how you choose to look at things in life. Some will choose to dwell on what could have been, even though in nearly all cases where you dwell on those kind of things there is no guarantee that changing one play or one result would have changed the ultimate outcome.
 

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