Come From Behind Wins

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RememberMurray said:
How is including Purdue "odd"? They're in the B1G West.

Of course defense is a factor. I agree with you. But the feeling that several posters have expressed seemed (to me, at least) to be about P.J. Fleck's offensive philosophy, and how run-heavy it is, which they seem to believe is a cause of this "can't come from behind" crisis the Gophers are in.
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Which is why including Purdue seems odd. They are pretty clearly a pass-oriented offense and Fleck and Brohm are clearly different in the philosophy of how they try to win.
 

I'm A Maroon 2! said:
Ultimately, these mean little to nothing.
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Well, I guess that's my conclusion. Others may disagree, of course.

It sure is a good stat to use if you want to get people riled up, though.

The other side of the equation is interesting as well: after all, in order to pile up a lot of come from behind wins, by definition you would need to fall behind more frequently.
 

Dakota2 said:
Which is why including Purdue seems odd. They are pretty clearly a pass-oriented offense and Fleck and Brohm are clearly different in the philosophy of how they try to win.
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Yes, and we are comparing different styles, yes? Isn't that the whole point?
 

RememberMurray said:
Not "normal", you say. By "not normal", do you mean it is unlike other teams results?
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Yes, not normal in compared to other teams results in the last five and a half seasons. Bingo, you got the point Murr.
 



RememberMurray said:
Thanks for your reply. So, 5 total in 5+ seasons. 3 of the five were in 2017.
Mostly against teams Wisconsin was favored to beat, it appears.

How about Iowa?
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I see. Three in one season somehow proves your point and not Gramps. Yup, that's clear enough.
 


I'm A Maroon 2! said:
Iowa comebacks of 8 or more since 2017

2017
Iowa State - 10 pt deficit

2018
None

2019
Iowa State - 8 pt deficit

2020
Illinois - 14 pt deficit

2021
Penn State - 14 pt deficit
Nebraska - 15 pt deficit
Illinois - 10 pt deficit
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Humm ... Six in five years proving again Murr's point that Gophers no different (with zero, as in never) than Iowa with six and Wisky with five). Murr's Rollin'.
 

Dakota2 said:
Humm ... Six in five years proving again Murr's point that Gophers no different (with zero, as in never) than Iowa with six and Wisky with five). Murr's Rollin'.
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So you're saying this stat is indicative of a major problem?
 



RememberMurray said:
What is your point, Dak?
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My point, Murr, is that Gramps has raised a very interesting and, I think, important trend. And Maroon has proved it.

Gophers are a glaring outlier to the norm in the Big Ten West, and undoubtedly throughout college football in never, not once, coming back to win from a seven point or more deficit.

Your attempted point, that we are just in the everyday norm in this regard is wider of the mark than was Tricket's chip shot FG against Purdue. Put another way, you are demonstrably wrong.
 

Dakota2 said:
My point, Murr, is that Gramps has raised a very interesting and, I think, important trend. And Maroon has proved it.

Gophers are a glaring outlier to the norm in the Big Ten West, and undoubtedly throughout college football in never, not once, coming back to win from a seven point or more deficit.

Your attempted point, that we are just in the everyday norm in this regard is wider of the mark than was Tricket's chip shot FG against Purdue. Put another way, you are demonstrably wrong.
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The "everyday norm"?

Funny, I don't recall ever having made any such statement.

In which post did I make that claim?
 

RememberMurray said:
So you're saying this stat is indicative of a major problem?
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It is a reason to be very concerned when we are not dominating opponents with early and comfortable leads. It's a concern to learn we are the only team in our Division that has never, not once, managed to come back to win after trailing by a touchdown in five and a half years.

More than concerning, it is shocking.
 

RememberMurray said:
The "everyday norm"?

Funny, I don't recall ever having made any such statement.

In which post did I make that claim?
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Yup, for old Murr it's never, as in not ever, owning up to what you write. Oh well ...
 



Dakota2 said:
It is a reason to be very concerned when we are not dominating opponents with early and comfortable leads. It's a concern to learn we are the only team in our Division that has never, not once, managed to come back to win after trailing by a touchdown in five and a half years.

More than concerning, it is shocking.
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Okay. You're shocked.
 


I wouldn’t call it a crisis, but it might help explain why we haven’t won the West. A win per season (based on what we see here from other teams), could certainly have changed a few seasons. At least now I know to turn off the game from now on if we get down by 10!
 

Drake University Gopher said:
I wouldn’t call it a crisis, but it might help explain why we haven’t won the West. A win per season (based on what we see here from other teams), could certainly have changed a few seasons. At least now I know to turn off the game from now on if we get down by 10!
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Because there is no chance that the stat can change?

Let's try this: let's keep track of how many times the Gophers are actually behind by 10+ points going forward.

This will be really interesting.
 


Drake University Gopher said:
How about we just never get down by 10+ ever again! Sounds like more fun
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It would be!

How often is this situation an issue, really? It almost seems like a stat that someone comes up with when they are trying to distort things a bit.

Do good teams build their program around their ability to come back from a double-digit deficit?
 

Dakota2 said:
My point, Murr, is that Gramps has raised a very interesting and, I think, important trend. And Maroon has proved it.

Gophers are a glaring outlier to the norm in the Big Ten West, and undoubtedly throughout college football in never, not once, coming back to win from a seven point or more deficit.

Your attempted point, that we are just in the everyday norm in this regard is wider of the mark than was Tricket's chip shot FG against Purdue. Put another way, you are demonstrably wrong.
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To be fair, the Gophers have not come back to win from a deficit of more than seven points in any game during PJs tenure. Other Gopher teams might have (in fact I assume they have).

I’m a PJ fan. My comment is not about a “crisis” or even a “problem.” It is just an observation about how the Gophers are a very, very good team when they take a decent lead early … and conversely not very proficient when playing from behind. Maybe one begets the other; maybe there is no connection. I just found it interesting.

This is a fan site. It is OK for true fans to study team trends and characteristics and to discuss the same.
 

Gophergrandpa said:
To be fair, the Gophers have not come back to win from a deficit of more than seven points in any game during PJs tenure. Other Gopher teams might have (in fact I assume they have).

I’m a PJ fan. My comment is not about a “crisis” or even a “problem.” It is just an observation about how the Gophers are a very, very good team when they take a decent lead early … and conversely not very proficient when playing from behind. Maybe one begets the other; maybe there is no connection. I just found it interesting.

This is a fan site. It is OK for true fans to study team trends and characteristics and to discuss the same.
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I agree.

In order to discuss, it is good to have context.

Today's topic: It appears that the Gophers lag behind their peers in the area of coming back from a double-digit deficit.

This raises several questions:
Just how far behind are the Gophers in this area, and how important in the overall scheme of building a program is it to be able to come back from a 10+ point deficit?
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
How do you “prevent it”?

Score more?

I think they know that…
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The first way to prevent momentum by your opponent is to make your players aware of its' existence. Change your belief and realize momentum is a real thing.
It happens in sales, it happens on the internet with algorithms, it can happen in a workout program at the gym. on and on and it certainly happens in sports. Momentum is real, it exists.

Take Eagles vs Vikings....Eagles never let JJ get momentum knowing he's the Vikings barometer to feeling good about themselves. There are many things the game plan takes away. If you let the other team do what they want ... they start to feel good about themselves and they ramp up and steam roll you.

The key, first of all, is to realize it is real and prevent it from happening for the other team from a defensive standpoint....it's the why in explaining things. If they get started they are really difficult to shut down. The importance of the game plan has a why...a consequence.

Offense...Mo can't run...we got no momentum...we have no swagger...we hang our heads.

Hard to gather momentum if you don't believe it exists.
If we were aware that momentum is real, hopefully we'd have a plan to find it elsewhere. I think knowing momentum exists makes it easier to develop it, find it, believe you have a chance, come back from no where to triumph etc etc

I coached a lot of games people thought we were toast only for them to be very disappointed when we closed with momentum and a victory.
If you are aware of momentum...you know sports is all about runs...the other team is going to have a spurt against you...aware of it...no panic...okay, back at you we are going on our run now to overcome. It is a major part of in game adjustments. Exploiting weaknesses with an awareness of the effect, the why, the importance. Same for preventing them from doing what they want to do...so they never gain momentum...think Illinois vs Minnesota. Sports performance is hugely mental.
 

60's Guy said:
The first way to prevent momentum by your opponent is to make your players aware of its' existence. Change your belief and realize momentum is a real thing.
It happens in sales, it happens on the internet with algorithms, it can happen in a workout program at the gym. on and on and it certainly happens in sports. Momentum is real, it exists.

Take Eagles vs Vikings....Eagles never let JJ get momentum knowing he's the Vikings barometer to feeling good about themselves. There are many things the game plan takes away. If you let the other team do what they want ... they start to feel good about themselves and they ramp up and steam roll you.

The key, first of all, is to realize it is real and prevent it from happening for the other team from a defensive standpoint....it's the why in explaining things. If they get started they are really difficult to shut down. The importance of the game plan has a why...a consequence.

Offense...Mo can't run...we got no momentum...we have no swagger...we hang our heads.

Hard to gather momentum if you don't believe it exists.
If we were aware that momentum is real, hopefully we'd have a plan to find it elsewhere. I think knowing momentum exists makes it easier to develop it, find it, believe you have a chance, come back from no where to triumph etc etc

I coached a lot of games people thought we were toast only for them to be very disappointed when we closed with momentum and a victory.
If you are aware of momentum...you know sports is all about runs...the other team is going to have a spurt against you...aware of it...no panic...okay, back at you we are going on our run now to overcome. It is a major part of in game adjustments. Exploiting weaknesses with an awareness of the effect, the why, the importance. Same for preventing them from doing what they want to do...so they never gain momentum...think Illinois vs Minnesota. Sports performance is hugely mental.
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So... P.J. should coach differently?

More like how you coach?
 

Here is the genesis of my post. PJ remarked that it was no big deal when (instead of punting) we failed to convert a 4th down play against Purdue on our own 29 yard line, because it only cost us three points. But, besides shifting the momentum to Purdue, it also moved us from a 7 point deficit (from which we have come back to win several times) to a 10 point deficit, from which PJ, as the Gopher HC, has never come back from to win. Never.

My take is that, knowing our statistical history, we shouldn’t take a high-risk-low-return 4th down chances early in a game that could easily and foreseeable cause us to go down by more than 7 points. Slipping back to a 10-point deficit (gifting the other team a 10 point lead) early in the game is not “no big deal”; it is, to this point in PJ’s Gopher career, tantamount to conceding a loss. Those stakes are too big when you are already behind. Take those chances when you are ahead and going for the early kill. Or at least wait until later in the game when taking such a chance is necessary and prudent.
 


Gophergrandpa said:
Here is the genesis of my post. PJ remarked that it was no big deal when (instead of punting) we failed to convert a 4th down play against Purdue on our own 29 yard line, because it only cost us three points. But it also moved us from a 7 point deficit (from which we have come back to win several times) to a 10 point deficit, from which PJ, as the Gopher HC, has never come back from to win. Never.

My take is that, knowing our statistical history, we shouldn’t take a high-risk-low-return 4th down chances early in a game that could easily and foreseeable cause us to go down by more than 7 points. Slipping back to a 10-point deficit (gifting the other team a 10 point lead) early in the game is not “no big deal”; it is, to this point in PH’s Gopher career, tantamount to conceding a loss. Those stakes are too big when you are already behind. Take those chances when you are ahead and going for the early kill. Or at least wait until later in the game when taking such a chance is necessary and prudent.
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I think that, when he made that statement P.J. may simply have been fed-up with second-guessing from the media types.

I could be wrong. But if it was me, and after any loss I get the "What were you thinking when you made this or that decision" questions, I'd be ready to tell somebody to go take a hike.

i was probably one of the few people who related well to Jerry Burns when he erupted in his famous profanity-laced press conference.

It is such a weird situation: we have people who are not and never will be in the arena, and their job is to publicly question every decision made by those people who are.
 


Hockey team came from behind tonight.

I guess because they were “aware” of momentum or something…



Or maybe they just scored…
 
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RememberMurray said:
It would be!

How often is this situation an issue, really? It almost seems like a stat that someone comes up with when they are trying to distort things a bit.

Do good teams build their program around their ability to come back from a double-digit deficit?
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That would certainly be one element of building a great program. Now you're actually thinking.
 


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