FYI - All-time Big Ten West Head-To-Head Historical Stats

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hungan1

hungan1

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From Winsipedia:

MN vs WI: MN 60 wins, 8 ties, WI 62 wins
MN vs IA: MN 60 wins, 2 ties, IA 50 wins
MN vs NE: MN 34 wins, 2 ties, 25 wins
MN vs PUR: MN 41 wins, 3 ties, PUR 33 wins
MN vs IL: MN 40 wins, 3 ties, IL 30 wins

Gophers vs Badgers - http://www.winsipedia.com/minnesota/vs/wisconsin
Gophers vs Hawkeyes - http://www.winsipedia.com/minnesota/vs/iowa
Gophers vs Huskers - http://www.winsipedia.com/minnesota/vs/nebraska
Gophers vs Boilermakers - http://www.winsipedia.com/minnesota/vs/purdue
Gophers vs Fighting Illini - http://www.winsipedia.com/minnesota/vs/illinois
 

I'm sorry, but those records simply do not fit with the typical Minnesotan's 'woe is us' mentality.

How can we reconcile this?
 


RememberMurray said:
I'm sorry, but those records simply do not fit with the typical Minnesotan's 'woe is us' mentality.

How can we reconcile this?
Click to expand...
We can reconcile this by winning the National Championship for the eighth time.

From a historical perspective, the Minnesota Gophers are a sleeping giant. Gopher Football is not so bleak after all.

PJ Fleck has a golden opportunity to put his legacy to work!
 

1st rule of college sports -

when historical performance outweighs recent performance, stress the historical performance

when recent performance outweighs historical performance, stress the recent performance.

Now here's a different perspective:
If you are 53 years old, the Gophers have never won a B1G title in your lifetime.
If you are 59 years old, the Gophers have never played in the Rose Bowl in your lifetime.

that means that, roughly, 85% of the current population of MN has no memory of the Gophers playing in a Rose bowl.

the bottom line - for most of today's fans - at least those 50-and-younger, some game that happened 60 years ago simply doesn't matter, because they have no actual memories to savor.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
1st rule of college sports -

when historical performance outweighs recent performance, stress the historical performance

when recent performance outweighs historical performance, stress the recent performance.

Now here's a different perspective:
If you are 53 years old, the Gophers have never won a B1G title in your lifetime.
If you are 59 years old, the Gophers have never played in the Rose Bowl in your lifetime.

that means that, roughly, 85% of the current population of MN has no memory of the Gophers playing in a Rose bowl.

the bottom line - for most of today's fans - at least those 50-and-younger, some game that happened 60 years ago simply doesn't matter, because they have no actual memories to savor.
Click to expand...
Add to that, for those under 35 “playing in a rose bowl” has a completely different meaning
 

hungan1 said:
From a historical perspective, the Minnesota Gophers are a sleeping giant. Gopher Football is not so bleak after all.
Click to expand...

In 1960, Detroit was the 5th largest US city. In 2021, it is estimated to be the 26th largest city with about 40% of its 1960 population.

In 1960, the American South was overwhelmingly affiliated with the Democratic party.

In 1960, Florida was the 10th most populous state. In 2020, it is the 3rd most populous with more than 4 times the population it had in 1960.

Things change.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
1st rule of college sports -

when historical performance outweighs recent performance, stress the historical performance

when recent performance outweighs historical performance, stress the recent performance.

Now here's a different perspective:
If you are 53 years old, the Gophers have never won a B1G title in your lifetime.
If you are 59 years old, the Gophers have never played in the Rose Bowl in your lifetime.

that means that, roughly, 85% of the current population of MN has no memory of the Gophers playing in a Rose bowl.

the bottom line - for most of today's fans - at least those 50-and-younger, some game that happened 60 years ago simply doesn't matter, because they have no actual memories to savor.
Click to expand...

Here's yet another perspective:

If you're a Wisconsin or an Iowa fan, your team has never won an outright national championship in football, in their entire history.

-----

Wisconsin has one national championship from an NCAA-designated major selector for the 1942 season.[19] The school claims this championship.[20] However, the NCAA only recognizes Ohio State as the national champion in 1942 (who finished No. 1 in the AP Poll), and does not credit Wisconsin with any national championships in football.[21]

en.wikipedia.org

Wisconsin Badgers football - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

-----

Iowa has been selected national champion by NCAA-designated major selectors in 1921, 1922, 1956, 1958, and 1960.[8][9]: 111, 113  Iowa claims all five championships.[10] However, the NCAA only recognizes the 1958 co-championship season shared with LSU.[11]

Iowa finished the 1958 regular season ranked No. 2 in the polls, and won the 1959 Rose Bowl convincingly, 38–12, setting or tying six Rose Bowl records. The Football Writers Association of America (FWAA) awarded the Grantland Rice Trophy to Iowa, though that did not carry the same weight as the major wire-services (AP and Coaches')[12] who named 11–0 Louisiana State as national champions.[13][14]

Iowa has never finished a season ranked #1 in the AP or Coaches Poll.[15]

en.wikipedia.org

Iowa Hawkeyes football - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 

hungan1 said:
We can reconcile this by winning the National Championship for the eighth time.

From a historical perspective, the Minnesota Gophers are a sleeping giant. Gopher Football is not so bleak after all.

PJ Fleck has a golden opportunity to put his legacy to work!
Click to expand...
In 1951, LOOK Magazine did a big feature, "Can Fesler Rouse the Sleeping Giant of the North." He couldn't. A lot of giant-rousers have tried since then, and Fesler didn't have to contend with the Twins or the Vikings.
 



Thank goodness for the playoff system, despite its imperfections. Years ago I had a conversation with Tom Moe (1959 MVP and later AD) about the 1960 and 1961 Gopher teams. He told me that the players and coaches of that era considered 1961 the better season and better team, because they won the Rose Bowl (even though they finished 6th in the final pre-Bowl poll). He said the Rose Bowl was the big thing, not pre-bowl rankings. He also said that after losing the Rose Bowl, the players and coaches of that era did not really consider the 1960 team to be the national champion. Makes sense. The 1960 team took the field twice with the # 1 ranking, and lost both games, including the Rose Bowl, which was after the final polls.
 

RememberMurray said:
Here's yet another perspective:

If you're a Wisconsin or an Iowa fan, your team has never won an outright national championship in football, in their entire history.

-----

Wisconsin has one national championship from an NCAA-designated major selector for the 1942 season.[19] The school claims this championship.[20] However, the NCAA only recognizes Ohio State as the national champion in 1942 (who finished No. 1 in the AP Poll), and does not credit Wisconsin with any national championships in football.[21]

en.wikipedia.org

Wisconsin Badgers football - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

-----

Iowa has been selected national champion by NCAA-designated major selectors in 1921, 1922, 1956, 1958, and 1960.[8][9]: 111, 113  Iowa claims all five championships.[10] However, the NCAA only recognizes the 1958 co-championship season shared with LSU.[11]

Iowa finished the 1958 regular season ranked No. 2 in the polls, and won the 1959 Rose Bowl convincingly, 38–12, setting or tying six Rose Bowl records. The Football Writers Association of America (FWAA) awarded the Grantland Rice Trophy to Iowa, though that did not carry the same weight as the major wire-services (AP and Coaches')[12] who named 11–0 Louisiana State as national champions.[13][14]

Iowa has never finished a season ranked #1 in the AP or Coaches Poll.[15]

en.wikipedia.org

Iowa Hawkeyes football - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Basically, Iowa has never won a national championship - certainly not in modern times (Minnesota beat them 27-10 in 1960, knocking them out of number one in both polls). The early 1920s are so murky, with so many claimants, and no polls, and even the free lance, individual "selectors" - who had some weight in the '30s - were not publishing yet. All the choices were made years later by various football historians looking back and there were five teams in contention in 1921 with Cornell the runaway favorite, and four in 1922, with Princeton the runaway favorite. In 1956 and '58, the AP and coaches' polls were official designators, leaving Iowa out.
 

BigTenGuy said:
Thank goodness for the playoff system, despite its imperfections. Years ago I had a conversation with Tom Moe (1959 MVP and later AD) about the 1960 and 1961 Gopher teams. He told me that the players and coaches of that era considered 1961 the better season and better team, because they won the Rose Bowl (even though they finished 6th in the final pre-Bowl poll). He said the Rose Bowl was the big thing, not pre-bowl rankings. He also said that after losing the Rose Bowl, the players and coaches of that era did not really consider the 1960 team to be the national champion. Makes sense. The 1960 team took the field twice with the # 1 ranking, and lost both games, including the Rose Bowl, which was after the final polls.
Click to expand...
Not so fast! in the 30s, 40s, 50s and until 1965, the national champion was selected before the bowls by the AP (which started in 1936). It was fairly common for national champions to lose bowl games but it didn't tarnish their championship or change anything. In 1973, Notre Dame beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, winning the AP national championship, but the coaches hadn't made the switch yet, so Alabama remained champ in their last, pre-bowl poll despite the loss to Notre Dame in an epic game, everyone (except Alabama afterwards) regarded as the national championship game. The Gophers won both AP and coaches' polls in 1960 and the championship was a very big deal, despite the Rose Bowl loss, and was much celebrated at the time. We were the national champions, period. Of those 60s Gopher teams, the best may have been the 1962 team, which was robbed of a B10 championship and a win over Wisconsin, by an official in the final minutes of that game. They would have had one loss, the 1961 team had two regular season losses, the 1960 team one regular season loss plus a Rose Bowl loss. The Gophers in those three years, in a very balanced B10, were winning over 80% of their games. Defense was the reason, the hallmark of Murray Warmath.
 





spermophilus said:
I respect the NY Yankees for discounting/forgetting about their WS titles prior to 1992.

:rolleyes:(n)
Click to expand...
You know that half the people in the stadium were born in the 90s or after correct?

AND

I was answering a question
 

short ornery norwegian said:
1st rule of college sports -

when historical performance outweighs recent performance, stress the historical performance

when recent performance outweighs historical performance, stress the recent performance.

Now here's a different perspective:
If you are 53 years old, the Gophers have never won a B1G title in your lifetime.
If you are 59 years old, the Gophers have never played in the Rose Bowl in your lifetime.

that means that, roughly, 85% of the current population of MN has no memory of the Gophers playing in a Rose bowl.

the bottom line - for most of today's fans - at least those 50-and-younger, some game that happened 60 years ago simply doesn't matter, because they have no actual memories to savor.
Click to expand...
That's one more reason to teach Gopher Football history to kids.

Neil Armstrong set his foot on the moon and uttered, “That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind” on July 15, 2019.

Today, some young people believed that it was all a hoax.

One small step for Gopher Football is the win the Big Ten West Outright. One giant step is to win the National Championship!

We have PJ Fleck working on it. PJ Fleck is aiming for the moon!
 

hungan1 said:
That's one more reason to teach Gopher Football history to kids.

Neil Armstrong set his foot on the moon and uttered, “That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind” on July 15, 2019.

Today, some young people believed that it was all a hoax.

One small step for Gopher Football is the win the Big Ten West Outright. One giant step is to win the National Championship!

We have PJ Fleck working on it. PJ Fleck is aiming for the moon!
Click to expand...

At this point I'm pretty sure that the national titles of the 1940s had to have been a hoax. Can anyone really prove that Bernie Bierman ever existed?
 

johnnybb said:
At this point I'm pretty sure that the national titles of the 1940s had to have been a hoax. Can anyone really prove that Bernie Bierman ever existed?
Click to expand...

Does anyone born before the invention of the smart phone have any real relevance?
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
It was fairly common for national champions to lose bowl games but it didn't tarnish their championship or change anything.
Click to expand...
At least on their website, the NCAA identifies 3 organizations as selecting the national champion for 1954-1958, and 4 for 1959-1974, when all 4 began selecting their champion after the bowls. From 1955-1973, when some but not all of the 4 organizations picked their champion after the bowls, only 2 AP national champions lost their bowl games: Minnesota in 1960 and Alabama in 1964. In both of those years, the Football Writers, after bowl games, picked someone other than the bowl loser as the national champion.

While it is certainly true that the Football Writers did not change who AP/Coaches poll picked as the national champion for 1960/64, I respectfully disagree that the bowl losses by Minnesota and Alabama, and subsequent national champion selections by the Football Writers, did nothing to tarnish the selections of Minnesota and Alabama as the 1960 and 1964 national champions. Those selections surely have less luster or value as a result of subsequent events. The 97,300+ who showed up to watch Minnesota in the 1961 Rose Bowl (perhaps the then largest crowd in Gopher history) did not think they were watching a meaningless exhibition. Minnesota’s loss in that game matters.
 

johnnybb said:
At this point I'm pretty sure that the national titles of the 1940s had to have been a hoax. Can anyone really prove that Bernie Bierman ever existed?
Click to expand...
Good luck on that one. It's like kids believing in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. It only lasts for a while. Bernie Bierman is probably rolling in his grave just aching for another title.
 

BigTenGuy said:
At least on their website, the NCAA identifies 3 organizations as selecting the national champion for 1954-1958, and 4 for 1959-1974, when all 4 began selecting their champion after the bowls. From 1955-1973, when some but not all of the 4 organizations picked their champion after the bowls, only 2 AP national champions lost their bowl games: Minnesota in 1960 and Alabama in 1964. In both of those years, the Football Writers, after bowl games, picked someone other than the bowl loser as the national champion.

While it is certainly true that the Football Writers did not change who AP/Coaches poll picked as the national champion for 1960/64, I respectfully disagree that the bowl losses by Minnesota and Alabama, and subsequent national champion selections by the Football Writers, did nothing to tarnish the selections of Minnesota and Alabama as the 1960 and 1964 national champions. Those selections surely have less luster or value as a result of subsequent events. The 97,300+ who showed up to watch Minnesota in the 1961 Rose Bowl (perhaps the then largest crowd in Gopher history) did not think they were watching a meaningless exhibition. Minnesota’s loss in that game matters.
Click to expand...
And they make it clear that they are not recognizing any D1 football champions. My sister claims that as a proud Princeton Alum that her Alma has far more national titles than anyone in the Big 10.
 


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