Whatever happened to the "Illinois Model?" -- "the Alvarez/Ferentz Model?"

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Whatever happened to the "Illinois Model?" -- "the Alvarez/Ferentz Model?"

Back in the fall of 2007, when Tyler Roehl (the beefy 240# Bison fullback) was in our Dome slicing and dicing that vaunted brewster defense, there was much discussion of the "Illinois Model." You know...a new regime...a throwaway first year:rolleyes:...a 2nd year that shows some improvement...then...a 3rd year when all that high-caliber coaching kicks in to high gear...and a New Year's Day bowl game as the reward...

But when it seemed more time was needed, due to the revolving door of assistant coaches, and the desire to "build depth":rolleyes: rather than 'win now'...it was determined a 4th year might be necessary for the brew to reach the promised land...a la the Alvarez and Ferentz Models.

Today, as we look to a summer in preparation for the brew's 4th season, there appears to be a growing concensus that all the hope and promise may be turning into another throwaway season.:eek:

As Golden Gopher football standards and expectations have plummeted during the brew's tenure, it does make one wonder whatever happened to those pesky models we heard so much about...not so long ago...meanwhile, none of us are getting any younger...:eek:
 

ConferenceChamp said:
Back in the fall of 2007, when Tyler Roehl (the beefy 240# Bison fullback) was in our Dome slicing and dicing that vaunted brewster defense, there was much discussion of the "Illinois Model." You know...a new regime...a throwaway first year:rolleyes:...a 2nd year that shows some improvement...then...a 3rd year when all that high-caliber coaching kicks in to high gear...and a New Year's Day bowl game as the reward...

But when it seemed more time was needed, due to the revolving door of assistant coaches, and the desire to "build depth":rolleyes: rather than 'win now'...it was determined a 4th year might be necessary for the brew to reach the promised land...a la the Alvarez and Ferentz Models.

Today, as we look to a summer in preparation for the brew's 4th season, there appears to be a growing concensus that all the hope and promise may be turning into another throwaway season.:eek:

As Golden Gopher football standards and expectations have plummeted during the brew's tenure, it does make one wonder whatever happened to those pesky models we heard so much about...not so long ago...meanwhile, none of us are getting any younger...:eek:
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We're still on the 50 year Minnesota Plan.
 

I recall the AD extending the contract of a coach after 9 years of failing to make a New Year's Day bowl. This past offseason I recall a lot of people calling for Brewster's head after his third year of not making a NYD bowl. Please fill me in here because I think I missed where we had such high standards and expectations that they have now plummeted.
 

1. Can we ban the use of emoticons?
2. Remember when we had to block a field goal to beat North Dakota State in Glen Mason's TENTH year?

3. Expectations are pitifully low, but that's certainly nothing new to the Brewster era. There is nothing unreasonable about demanding a .500 conference season by a coaches 4th year on the job.
 

ConferenceChamp said:
Back in the fall of 2007, when Tyler Roehl (the beefy 240# Bison fullback) was in our Dome slicing and dicing that vaunted brewster defense, there was much discussion of the "Illinois Model." You know...a new regime...a throwaway first year:rolleyes:...a 2nd year that shows some improvement...then...a 3rd year when all that high-caliber coaching kicks in to high gear...and a New Year's Day bowl game as the reward...

But when it seemed more time was needed, due to the revolving door of assistant coaches, and the desire to "build depth":rolleyes: rather than 'win now'...it was determined a 4th year might be necessary for the brew to reach the promised land...a la the Alvarez and Ferentz Models.

Today, as we look to a summer in preparation for the brew's 4th season, there appears to be a growing concensus that all the hope and promise may be turning into another throwaway season.:eek:

As Golden Gopher football standards and expectations have plummeted during the brew's tenure, it does make one wonder whatever happened to those pesky models we heard so much about...not so long ago...meanwhile, none of us are getting any younger...:eek:
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Huh???
 


EG#9 said:
2. Remember when we had to block a field goal to beat North Dakota State in Glen Mason's TENTH year?
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Good point, he conveniently ignores that when he wants to use the 2007 to attack the Gophers. There of course never was a "Three years to get to a NYD bowl or you're out" model, but honesty has never been part of Conference Champ's method.

He also forgets that the predictions for the upcoming season don't actually count for anything, you actually have to play the games. Remember in the South Park movie, where Cartman had a V-chip which would give him an electric shock whenever she swore? Perhaps ConferenceChamp and a couple others need a V-chip which will give them an electric shock whenever they claim to be Gopher fans.
 

What does it take to earn a ban on this site? Its unbelievably obvious what CC's agenda is and yet he's still here chuggin along. This place could use a clean-up, it's getting unreadable.
 

Hey, Conference Champ, what is your favorite Gopher moment? Who's your favorite all-time Golden Gopher?
 

tjgopher said:
Hey, Conference Champ, what is your favorite Gopher moment? Who's your favorite all-time Golden Gopher?
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My all-time favorite Gopher = Bruce Smith :cool02:

Favorite Gopher moment = quite a few, actually...

1. 1999 comes to mind...going to Happy Valley to take on #2 ranked Penn St...and watching Dan Nystrom drill one through the uprights to win the game...LaVar Arrington just laid on the field in stunned disbelief:D

2. 1986 also comes to mind...when an unheralded freshman tailback from Rochester put 200 yards on top-ranked Michigan in Ann Arbor :D

3. it's tough to forget Gary Russell's long run up the right sideline in Ann Arbor in 2005 (I nearly soiled my britches on that one:D) His long run allowed the Gophers to pull another one out against the Wolvereenies

4. Coming off a dreadful 1983 (similar to brewster's 2007;)), when Lou Holtz came in and put one on both Wisconsin and Iowa (a pair of Bowl teams that year)...was an unbelievable coaching effort, imho

5. In the decade just passed, Glen Mason accounted for 60% of Minnesota'a all-time bowl victories, by beating SEC power Arkansas, Pac 10 power Oregon, and Virginia :D
 



ConferenceChamp said:
Back in the fall of 2007, when Tyler Roehl (the beefy 240# Bison fullback) was in our Dome slicing and dicing that vaunted brewster defense, there was much discussion of the "Illinois Model." You know...a new regime...a throwaway first year:rolleyes:...a 2nd year that shows some improvement...then...a 3rd year when all that high-caliber coaching kicks in to high gear...and a New Year's Day bowl game as the reward...

But when it seemed more time was needed, due to the revolving door of assistant coaches, and the desire to "build depth":rolleyes: rather than 'win now'...it was determined a 4th year might be necessary for the brew to reach the promised land...a la the Alvarez and Ferentz Models.

Today, as we look to a summer in preparation for the brew's 4th season, there appears to be a growing concensus that all the hope and promise may be turning into another throwaway season.:eek:

As Golden Gopher football standards and expectations have plummeted during the brew's tenure, it does make one wonder whatever happened to those pesky models we heard so much about...not so long ago...meanwhile, none of us are getting any younger...:eek:
Click to expand...


I know you were being sarcastic, but nobody claimed the defense was any good in 2007 so using the phrase "vaunted Brewster defense" is stupid even if it was meant to be tounge and cheek. The D was going to be bad anyway and then WVS broke his arm, and Jones/Daniels were kicked off the team. Whether or not you (or anybody) wants to cut him slack for year 1 doesn't really matter. No coach was going to win more than 4-5 games with that team and that would have been a bad season too. Would you or anybody feel a lot better about Brewster if his records were 4-8, 7-5, and 6-6?

The answer is most likely no, because standards here are higher than you think with the fans that aren't die-hard and there is nothing Brewster can do to satisfy trolls like you. Going 1-11sucked when it happened but 3 years later, who really cares? If he goes 13-0 with a 50-0 shutout in each game and manages to cure cancer in his spare time you'll just be complaining that he didn't do all of that faster.

As far as the consensus of another throw away season, where did this consensus come from? The trolls on a message board? The guys who want Brewster to go? People that write articles for Bleacher Report? I'm guessing nobody on the team has written the season off 3 months before it starts. There are plenty of unknowns and I'm curious to see how it plays out.

As far as models for success, there is one way that guarantees success. I'm sure Illinois fans want no part of the Zook model at this point in time. There is no sure fire model for success, otherwise every school would be doing the same thing. Do you hope for year 3 like Ferentz? Do you wait for year 7 like Frank Beamer? I don't know and neither do you. But I do know that 3 years isn't enough time for anybody, but very few people are happy with the last 2 seasons which were above average compared to the previous 40. Standards are higher than you think.
 

ConferenceChamp said:
My all-time favorite Gopher = Bruce Smith :cool02:

Favorite Gopher moment = quite a few, actually...

1. 1999 comes to mind...going to Happy Valley to take on #2 ranked Penn St...and watching Dan Nystrom drill one through the uprights to win the game...LaVar Arrington just laid on the field in stunned disbelief:D

2. 1986 also comes to mind...when an unheralded freshman tailback from Rochester put 200 yards on top-ranked Michigan in Ann Arbor :D

3. it's tough to forget Gary Russell's long run up the right sideline in Ann Arbor in 2005 (I nearly soiled my britches on that one:D) His long run allowed the Gophers to pull another one out against the Wolvereenies

4. Coming off a dreadful 1983 (similar to brewster's 2007;)), when Lou Holtz came in and put one on both Wisconsin and Iowa (a pair of Bowl teams that year)...was an unbelievable coaching effort, imho

5. In the decade just passed, Glen Mason accounted for 60% of Minnesota'a all-time bowl victories, by beating SEC power Arkansas, Pac 10 power Oregon, and Virginia :D
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I've got no beef with Arkansas, but I'm not sure I'd call them an SEC power. Solid program, but I think a few others would be considered "powers" before them.
 

CC said: 5. In the decade just passed, Glen Mason accounted for 60% of Minnesota'a all-time bowl victories, by beating SEC power Arkansas, Pac 10 power Oregon, and Virginia

And Mason beat up on a bunch of lightweights to get to third tier bowl games. He would have soiled his britches if he had to face the NC slate that Gutey did. But that was the soft schedule Mason arranged during his tenure which is part of the record.

Standards and expectations during Mason's years were low. Remember this is a coach who stated he was rebuilding going into 2007. And also lost 6 straight BT games the tail end of 05 and into 06 and was 2-8 BT during a stretch in 05 & 06. Yet some proclaim his tenure as a success. Sorry, but I can't accept that.

Brewster was hired to put a better product on the field than we have been accustomed to under Mason. So far, nada. IMO, he gets two years to make significant progress or he could be out of here. And I can accept that. I want to see Gopher football exceed minimum standards once again during my lifetime and be a program we can all get excited about.
 

Maybe he meant nat'l champ Alabama.... Of course the year we beat them they were in disarray and since then they have risen to national prominence again...just like Minnesota hopes to do....someday...soon....maybe...
 



ConferenceChamp said:
Back in the fall of 2007, when Tyler Roehl (the beefy 240# Bison fullback) was in our Dome slicing and dicing that vaunted brewster defense, there was much discussion of the "Illinois Model." You know...a new regime...a throwaway first year:rolleyes:...a 2nd year that shows some improvement...then...a 3rd year when all that high-caliber coaching kicks in to high gear...and a New Year's Day bowl game as the reward...

But when it seemed more time was needed, due to the revolving door of assistant coaches, and the desire to "build depth":rolleyes: rather than 'win now'...it was determined a 4th year might be necessary for the brew to reach the promised land...a la the Alvarez and Ferentz Models.

Today, as we look to a summer in preparation for the brew's 4th season, there appears to be a growing concensus that all the hope and promise may be turning into another throwaway season.:eek:

As Golden Gopher football standards and expectations have plummeted during the brew's tenure, it does make one wonder whatever happened to those pesky models we heard so much about...not so long ago...meanwhile, none of us are getting any younger...:eek:
Click to expand...

Well, I thought maybe we were going to just ignore CC's bait, but here goes. Yet another diffusion of bad karma spread by Mason lovers STILL upset and therefore toxic to anything gophers post 2007.

Tyler Rohl and NDSU chewed up a seriously overmatched 2007 defense due to a disgusting recruiting effort from 2005-2007, no speed, no size, no skill was seen on that D besides Dom Barber. To say that was a "vaunted" Brewster D is silly, and to be honest no one has said Brewster's D's have been vaunted, just solid, and light years better than the joke we had previous to his rebuilding efforts here.
From my understanding the "Illinois model" was always 4 year plan not 3, and IMO is a good plan as far as developing a program. Lose big year 1, recruit on playing time, Lose small year 2, stockpile players, win small year 3, win big year 4.
I've always been fine with giving a coach 5 years to develop a style, systems and lay groundwork of his program. If Brew doesn't come up big next year, he's gone, no one should argue for a 6th year unless we see 8+ wins and a new years day bowl.
This upcoming season is not a throwaway(if there is such a thing) There are seniors on this team who have been through hell and back, they are not "throwing this season away".
When the ball is kicked off in Tennessee we'll be 0-0, when we play for the pig what will our record be?
Expectations are not at an all time low, BS.
It's just that some folks are smart enough to understand that coaches need time to recoup and develop a program in their image.
The rebuilding job left by our previous coach was monumental, it was sickening watching the low talent level play in 07, knowing that poor recruiting efforts and arrogant attitudes had rotted this program from the inside out so badly.
The climb back had resulted in some nice moments and some painful ones. Will Brewster lead us to glory? Who knows, but if some people had their way he would have been fired after one year, two years, three years, and fired now.
Why not see what he can do with his own players in their senior year? Hopefully he won't go 6-6 and complain about rebuilding and drunk students, oh wait we'd have to give him a 5 year extension first and then in year 10 he can do that.
 

ConferenceChamp said:
Back in the fall of 2007, when Tyler Roehl (the beefy 240# Bison fullback) was in our Dome slicing and dicing that vaunted brewster defense, there was much discussion of the "Illinois Model." You know...a new regime...a throwaway first year:rolleyes:...a 2nd year that shows some improvement...then...a 3rd year when all that high-caliber coaching kicks in to high gear...and a New Year's Day bowl game as the reward...

But when it seemed more time was needed, due to the revolving door of assistant coaches, and the desire to "build depth":rolleyes: rather than 'win now'...it was determined a 4th year might be necessary for the brew to reach the promised land...a la the Alvarez and Ferentz Models.

Today, as we look to a summer in preparation for the brew's 4th season, there appears to be a growing concensus that all the hope and promise may be turning into another throwaway season.:eek:

As Golden Gopher football standards and expectations have plummeted during the brew's tenure, it does make one wonder whatever happened to those pesky models we heard so much about...not so long ago...meanwhile, none of us are getting any younger...:eek:
Click to expand...

You are mistaking and there was never a 3 year plan. The Ron Zook plan is lose big, lose small, win small, win big. It is a 4 year plan. Realistically we are a year behind and 2011 should be our breakout year.
 

dayjoh said:
What does it take to earn a ban on this site? Its unbelievably obvious what CC's agenda is and yet he's still here chuggin along. This place could use a clean-up, it's getting unreadable.
Click to expand...

Here's a little exercise. Click on the link to ConferenceChamp's profile. Find the link under statistics where it lets you list the threads started by each individual. That will give you an idea of the agenda this individual has. I've copied/pasted a selection I think is particularly telling.

think it's time for the mods to take action. It is crystal clear what this guy is trying to do...please do the right thing and remove him from the board.


Conference Champ's Thread Starters:
Brewster's ability to develop high-end talent?
Brew's advice comes back to haunt him...
Brewster = vastly over-rated recruiter?
Anatomy of the Brew's '08 recruiting class
Mystery surrounding Brew's coaching hires?
2 Questions for Doogie to ask brewster...
NCAA hounds to descend on Brewster?
Another shoe to drop on brew's head?!
 

ConferenceChamp said:
2. 1986 also comes to mind...when an unheralded freshman tailback from Rochester put 200 yards on top-ranked Michigan in Ann Arbor :D
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Nevermind that those 200 yards actually came from a heralded sophomore tailback at the Metrodome in 1987 against a 5-3 Michigan team.
 

Maximus said:
Nevermind that those 200 yards actually came from a heralded sophomore tailback at the Metrodome in 1987 against a 5-3 Michigan team.
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And when was Darrell Thompson ever "unheralded" anyway?
 


Maximus said:
Nevermind that those 200 yards actually came from a heralded sophomore tailback at the Metrodome in 1987 against a 5-3 Michigan team.
Click to expand...

Didn't we lose that game? That was there one where Thompson had a 99 yard TD run, right?
 

ConferenceChamp said:
Back in the fall of 2007, when Tyler Roehl (the beefy 240# Bison fullback) was in our Dome slicing and dicing that vaunted brewster defense, there was much discussion of the "Illinois Model." You know...a new regime...a throwaway first year:rolleyes:...a 2nd year that shows some improvement...then...a 3rd year when all that high-caliber coaching kicks in to high gear...and a New Year's Day bowl game as the reward...

But when it seemed more time was needed, due to the revolving door of assistant coaches, and the desire to "build depth":rolleyes: rather than 'win now'...it was determined a 4th year might be necessary for the brew to reach the promised land...a la the Alvarez and Ferentz Models.

Today, as we look to a summer in preparation for the brew's 4th season, there appears to be a growing concensus that all the hope and promise may be turning into another throwaway season.:eek:

As Golden Gopher football standards and expectations have plummeted during the brew's tenure, it does make one wonder whatever happened to those pesky models we heard so much about...not so long ago...meanwhile, none of us are getting any younger...:eek:
Click to expand...

Kirk Ferentz was 11-24 (7-17) his first 3 years as Iowa coach. Had he had a losing record in his 4th year, there is a pretty good chance he would be fired (not unlike Brewster). He won the Big Ten title and basically gave himself job security (which would happen to Brewster if he won the Big Ten title this year). The only difference is, at this point Kirk looks like a better coach than Brew.

Alvarez was 11-22 (5-19) his first 3 years as Wisconsin coach. Had he had a losing record in his 4th year, there is a pretty good chance he would be fired (not unlike Brewster). He won the Big Ten title and basically gave himself job security (which would happen to Brewster if he won the Big Ten title this year). The only difference is, at this point Barry looks like a better coach than Brew.

For perspective, Brewster is 15-25 (6-18) through 3 years.

Illinois is nearly an impossible team to emulate. They are always terrible, except in 2-3 seasons every 15 years. But in those 2-3 seasons they always seem to be top 2 in the Big Ten (see Rose Bowl year, Sugar Bowl year). Since the beginning of the BCS, they have more BCS bowl appearances than non-BCS bowl appearances. They are one of just a few schools who can say that (they obviously are saying that for difference reasons than the others who do). But if you want to follow an Illinois model, good luck. It is really difficult to never win ever and then come out of no where to make the BCS once every 5 years.
 





We all know CC's deal. But at least we get to correct his mistatements, that has value.

As already pointed out the Illinois model is a four year model. And only the haters consider year one Brewsters when talking about program development.

There has been consistency in the thought that this is the year Brew's team emerges, and once they learn to play together they will be very good. My guess has always been 2011 for good outcomes, but it could come sooner.
 

Rosemountian said:
For some reason I was thinking Brewster was 14-14 over the last 2 years....I guess he is 13-13 :eek:
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No problem, Rosemountain.

You're not the first guy to inflate the brew's win total, as that precedent has already been set on brew's own 'play4brew' website, before he was told to take it down.:rolleyes:

And as you and I both know, spring games and moral victories don't count either.;)
 

Why not wait and see how we do this year before you throw in the towel? If Brew can't do it this year, we'll have our answer.
 

ConferenceChamp said:
No problem, Rosemountain.

You're not the first guy to inflate the brew's win total, as that precedent has already been set on brew's own 'play4brew' website, before he was told to take it down.:rolleyes:

And as you and I both know, spring games and moral victories don't count either.;)
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How come you only pointed out that I inflated his win total? I also inflated his loss total.
 

Rosemountian said:
How come you only pointed out that I inflated his win total? I also inflated his loss total.
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I guess you are a precedent-setter, too...;)


But I won't ask to have you banned for making the brew look bad...perhaps someone else will, though...I can't help you there...:rolleyes:
 

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