Doogie: Weber is as much of a sports enigma as we have in this town

Donate To GopherHole

Doogie makes a very good point. Weber cannot do it alone. He needs the other 10 guys around him to improve as well. I am not worried about the oline any more after watching them twice this spring, and I figure out of McKnight, Lair, and Allen we'll have pass catchers. I think the bigger question mark is running back. I am not sold on Bennett or Eskeridge. There are things I like about them, but screams complete big ten back. If a running back emerges we could win 7 or 8 games. IF ONLY!
 



gophmeister said:
I would say no to that too. Because the oline played well doesn't mean d line did not.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that this is Minnesota. Therefore, if the offensive line looked good, it must be because the defensive line sucks.
 


If the passing attack looked good, the only logical explanation would be that our defensive backs are terrible.
 

Doogie thinks Weber's problems stem from changing his mechanics. He likes to blame Brewster's coaching for everything. I tend to think Weber's biggest liablilty is seeing the field. Some of the throws he attempts make me cringe and wonder if he doesn't need glasses. His pocket presense is not good either. He panics at the least bit of pressure and starts to look for escapes routes instead of feeling pressure and making subtle moves while looking down field. That is very hard to coach
 


minngg said:
Doogie thinks Weber's problems stem from changing his mechanics. He likes to blame Brewster's coaching for everything. I tend to think Weber's biggest liablilty is seeing the field. Some of the throws he attempts make me cringe and wonder if he doesn't need glasses. His pocket presense is not good either. He panics at the least bit of pressure and starts to look for escapes routes instead of feeling pressure and making subtle moves while looking down field. That is very hard to coach
Click to expand...

weber did make pocket mistakes...but I will defend weber here, I watched all the games and I don't remember seeing a "pocket" built by a gopher team since 1967
 





It is amazing how many people look at his high yardage and TD's his freshman year, and being the 2nd/3rd best (Juice Williams was 2nd team media Weber was coaches if I am not mistaken) out of 7 QB's who played the entire year in 2008 to argue that Weber was ever a good QB.
Congrats on being 2nd team All Big Ten by the coaches. You were deemed better than Dustin Sherer, Brian Hoyer, Kellen Lewis, and Steven Threet by both the coaches and the media, and you were deemed better than Juice Williams by the coaches. (Those along with Daryll Clark are the only QB's to play the entire 2008 season).
Congrats to you looking at his freshman statistics for ignoring the fact that only 5 quarterbacks in the last 6 years have had seasons in which they threw more interceptions than Weber did his freshman year.

For those of you saying that the shift away from the spread has been what has killed him, consider this: Weber threw for 2900 yards his freshman year with an experienced line and pretty decent receivers (Payne, Wheelright, and a young Decker). 39 QB's threw for more yards than him in that season alone. Since 2004, there have been 154 individual seasons by QB's that have had more yards than Webers 2007 campaign in the spread.

Anyone arguing that tweaking his throwing motion is what hurt him obviously did not watch his inaccuracy before Fisch got there.


While an argument could be made that all of the coaching changes has hurt Adam Weber, it does not make him a good QB. Adam Weber was below average and inaccurate in the spread system. He is a below average and inaccurate as a pro system QB.
The scheme has changed, the level of QB play has been fairly steady.
 




Rosemountian said:
It is amazing how many people look at his high yardage and TD's his freshman year, and being the 2nd/3rd best (Juice Williams was 2nd team media Weber was coaches if I am not mistaken) out of 7 QB's who played the entire year in 2008 to argue that Weber was ever a good QB.
Congrats on being 2nd team All Big Ten by the coaches. You were deemed better than Dustin Sherer, Brian Hoyer, Kellen Lewis, and Steven Threet by both the coaches and the media, and you were deemed better than Juice Williams by the coaches. (Those along with Daryll Clark are the only QB's to play the entire 2008 season).
Click to expand...

Good lord, why are minnesota fans so self-loathing! with fans like you, who needs wisconsin and iowa trolls. being the second best QB in the big ten, even inn a weak year (which i don't concede), is still a great accomplishment.

he was a freshman in a new system and new coaching staff in 2007, cut the kid some slack. since then he has been through another new coordinator, is on hi fourth offensive scheme and, with the exception of decker, has had VERY mediocre receivers, non-existent running game and an inconsistent o-line (to be kind).
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
has had VERY mediocre receivers
Click to expand...

I'll give you the rest of your points, but this one is just plain false. Wheelwright, J. Simmons, N. Tow-Arnett, aside from Decker. Most QBs would consider themselves very lucky to throw to 2 WR and 2 TE signed into the NFL during their careers. Weber had them all in the first 3 years.
 

Rosemountian said:
Adam Weber was below average and inaccurate in the spread system.
Click to expand...

Nevermind that he had the second best completion % in school history as a soph in the spread with the 104th best rushing attack in the country.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'll give you the rest of your points, but this one is just plain false. Wheelwright, J. Simmons, N. Tow-Arnett, aside from Decker. Most QBs would consider themselves very lucky to throw to 2 WR and 2 TE signed into the NFL during their careers. Weber had them all in the first 3 years.
Click to expand...

i meant to imply years two and three, and TEs not withstanding, he had very poor receivers in years two and three. after the TEs in years two and three receiving numbers drop off dramatically.

but you are correct, i was not taking into account two very good TEs.
 

Maximus said:
Nevermind that he had the second best completion % in school history as a soph in the spread with the 104th best rushing attack in the country.
Click to expand...

How dare you cite facts! Only people AGAINST Weber are allowed to do that.
 

The completion % is good. No doubt. But consider the amount of bubble screens and less than 5 yard throws he had in that spread system. That number is misleading. If you had happened to watch the games you would have seen he has been an inaccurate passer since his freshman year. It is not all about stats, if it was all about stats then the best 3 QB's in gopher history would be 1)Weber 2) Cupito 3) Khaliq
You can find more stats saying he is a bad QB than stats saying he is a good QB. To figure out what kind of QB he is watch the games. He is an inconsistent QB who has looked good 2-4 games per season since he got here. Watch the games and you will see a below average QB who peaked during the 4th game of the season his sophomore year (At his peak he was an average QB).

He was the 2nd best QB in a down big ten his sophomore year.....No he wasn't he was probably the 4th or 5th best QB in a down big ten his sophomore year. It is just that 2-3 of the guys who were better than him did not get recognized as all conference because they only played part of the season.

People get all worked up when people criticize Weber. They say cut him some slack. One must understand i am not attacking him as a person, I am judging him as a player. Weber has been below average his entire career. Blaming the change of systems and then expecting the change of systems once again to help him improve is flawed logic. Expecting him to be more than he is is only going to lead you to disappointment. He is a 4th year starting QB, who has a chance to be an average QB if he plays his best. An average QB is going to lead to average results this season, especially when there are so many questions on the rest of the team.

For the record, I have stated that I wish Gray was good enough to play, but if the gophers deem Weber better they have to play him.
I will cheer on the gophers and Weber in the fall, but I am just telling it like it is. Expecting much more than 6-7 wins this year is a big time reach. Expecting good to great QB play is an even bigger reach. Expecting 5-7 wins is realistic, expecting average to below average QB play is very realistic.
 

Rosemountian said:
People get all worked up when people criticize Weber. They say cut him some slack.
Click to expand...

People like me get upset at people like you because Weber has had absolutely no help at all. He has made the best of his situation. How good is a qb supposed to be under the circumstances he has had? 2 head coaches, 4 OC's, no running game (the single best rushing season any gopher has had on his watch is HIM at 736 yds.), and little protection from his line. People talk about him avoiding pressure that isn't there... that is exactly what happens when qb's get no protection, they lose their feet and don't develop a pocket presence. Weber may be beyond repair as a qb- I don't think so, but there is the possibility- but even if he is I'm not sure how much is his fault.
 

Rosemountian said:
It is amazing how many people look at his high yardage and TD's his freshman year, and being the 2nd/3rd best (Juice Williams was 2nd team media Weber was coaches if I am not mistaken) out of 7 QB's who played the entire year in 2008 to argue that Weber was ever a good QB.
Congrats on being 2nd team All Big Ten by the coaches. You were deemed better than Dustin Sherer, Brian Hoyer, Kellen Lewis, and Steven Threet by both the coaches and the media, and you were deemed better than Juice Williams by the coaches. (Those along with Daryll Clark are the only QB's to play the entire 2008 season).
Congrats to you looking at his freshman statistics for ignoring the fact that only 5 quarterbacks in the last 6 years have had seasons in which they threw more interceptions than Weber did his freshman year.

For those of you saying that the shift away from the spread has been what has killed him, consider this: Weber threw for 2900 yards his freshman year with an experienced line and pretty decent receivers (Payne, Wheelright, and a young Decker). 39 QB's threw for more yards than him in that season alone. Since 2004, there have been 154 individual seasons by QB's that have had more yards than Webers 2007 campaign in the spread.

Anyone arguing that tweaking his throwing motion is what hurt him obviously did not watch his inaccuracy before Fisch got there.


While an argument could be made that all of the coaching changes has hurt Adam Weber, it does not make him a good QB. Adam Weber was below average and inaccurate in the spread system. He is a below average and inaccurate as a pro system QB.
The scheme has changed, the level of QB play has been fairly steady.
Click to expand...

Excellent analysis...seeing the replay of the pick six he threw late and across his body/field against South Dakota State still makes me cringe. My sense is Weber will have some very productive games and some frustrating ones against Big Ten opponents that can apply pressure like OSU and Iowa...Go Gophs!
 

ruralgopher said:
People like me get upset at people like you because Weber has had absolutely no help at all. He has made the best of his situation. How good is a qb supposed to be under the circumstances he has had? 2 head coaches, 4 OC's, no running game (the single best rushing season any gopher has had on his watch is HIM at 736 yds.), and little protection from his line. People talk about him avoiding pressure that isn't there... that is exactly what happens when qb's get no protection, they lose their feet and don't develop a pocket presence. Weber may be beyond repair as a qb- I don't think so, but there is the possibility- but even if he is I'm not sure how much is his fault.
Click to expand...

At some point you have to ask yourself this:

At MN, is QB play part of the problem, or a symptom of the other problems. I am of the camp that says QB play is part of the problem. Perhaps you do not agree with this. The O-line was terrible at run blocking last year. Perhaps you are correct that the reason he had such bad pocket awareness was because he was hit so many times early in the year. But the fact remains that he has zero pocket awareness, and this makes him a bad QB. By the second half of the year the pass blocking was better than the QB play (This was not the case in the first half). In the second half of the season, more of the sacks had to do with Weber holding the ball too long than the O-line breaking down. Perhaps the concept of throwing the ball on time on 5 step drops was lost in the translation of implementing the new offense. Whatever the reason, Weber could not get the ball out on time.

You can throw blame around as to why Weber was a bad QB. Maybe it was bad O-line play early in the year that made him jumpy. Maybe it was the change in scheme. Maybe it was the change in throwing motion (that did not hurt his accuracy, it was essentially the same).
Whatever you want to blame for Weber being a bad QB last year and a below average QB for his career, the fact remains that he is what he is. To expect a big improvement and for him to all of a sudden be a good QB when he has never been aside from a 4 game stretch at the beginning of his sophomore year is unrealistic. He is what he is. I will cheer for him during the wins. I will cheer for him during the losses. I will hope that he improves greatly, but I will not expect it (Cause it is not going to happen). I will not say he is a good quarterback, because I would be lying.
 

Rosemountian said:
At some point you have to ask yourself this:

At MN, is QB play part of the problem, or a symptom of the other problems. I am of the camp that says QB play is part of the problem. Perhaps you do not agree with this. The O-line was terrible at run blocking last year. Perhaps you are correct that the reason he had such bad pocket awareness was because he was hit so many times early in the year. But the fact remains that he has zero pocket awareness, and this makes him a bad QB. By the second half of the year the pass blocking was better than the QB play (This was not the case in the first half). In the second half of the season, more of the sacks had to do with Weber holding the ball too long than the O-line breaking down. Perhaps the concept of throwing the ball on time on 5 step drops was lost in the translation of implementing the new offense. Whatever the reason, Weber could not get the ball out on time.

You can throw blame around as to why Weber was a bad QB. Maybe it was bad O-line play early in the year that made him jumpy. Maybe it was the change in scheme. Maybe it was the change in throwing motion (that did not hurt his accuracy, it was essentially the same).
Whatever you want to blame for Weber being a bad QB last year and a below average QB for his career, the fact remains that he is what he is. To expect a big improvement and for him to all of a sudden be a good QB when he has never been aside from a 4 game stretch at the beginning of his sophomore year is unrealistic. He is what he is. I will cheer for him during the wins. I will cheer for him during the losses. I will hope that he improves greatly, but I will not expect it (Cause it is not going to happen). I will not say he is a good quarterback, because I would be lying.
Click to expand...

*I think your Weber analysis is spot on. I think this discussion only further paints Weber as the enigma the article paints him as.

In many ways, Weber is a victim of the 2007 season. With a terrible team, many of his stats were inflated (probably attempts, yards, picks, etc). Because he was a frosh, many saw hope in his record-breaking numbers, and his negative stats were chalked up to inexperience. Weber as a QB has always been frustrating because of the inconsistency, as Rosemountain has pointed out. There have been a few games - like the MSU game last year - where I can't help but think Weber won the game single-handidly and performed as well as ANY Big Ten QB could hope to perform on a given Saturday. Many other times (N'western in '08, PSU and SDSU last year), his play is absolutely maddening (Cue the locking onto receivers, poor pocket presence, terrible decision-making talk).

In a different situation, Weber would never have seen the field until later in his career, and thus we'd find his play much more simple to analyze.

As a fan, I truly believe that Weber gives the Gophs the best chance to win in 2010. Whether that's good for the long term success of the program is impossible to determine. Either way, I'm with Rosemt'n ... I want to beat Iowa and Wisconsin. More importantly, I want the Gophs to have at least one really big win at home this fall.
 

Rosemtn- the Oline was not just terrible at run blocking last year, he has NEVER had a running game. College qb's need a running game, even spread qb's. Heck NFL qb's need a running game. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: If Weber starts the year with our new look pro style/ power running game and he continues to demonstrate happy feet in the pocket and poor decision making, pull him- he is probably beyond repair if that is the case. But, until we see what he can do with a clear head and (hopefully) some offensive support, lets let it be. He probably was named starter because he has shown the coaches that he is the best option to win.
 

ruralgopher said:
Rosemtn- the Oline was not just terrible at run blocking last year, he has NEVER had a running game. College qb's need a running game, even spread qb's. Heck NFL qb's need a running game. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: If Weber starts the year with our new look pro style/ power running game and he continues to demonstrate happy feet in the pocket and poor decision making, pull him- he is probably beyond repair if that is the case. But, until we see what he can do with a clear head and (hopefully) some offensive support, lets let it be. He probably was named starter because he has shown the coaches that he is the best option to win.
Click to expand...

I have said Weber needs to start if he is the best option. What depresses me about this is that it says how bad and/or unready Gray and Alipate are...Weber is below average, and he is so much better than the competition that there was never a real QB competition. This is what depresses me as a gopher fan. As I have said, I will cheer on the team with equal passion as I would otherwise. I don't know if you can pull him mid-season if he is really the best QB. If he is playing poorly at the position, it is a continuation of the previous 18-19 games of his career. Everyone knows he played poorly last year, yet he easily won the QB competition. If he plays poorly again, do you really want him pulled for a guy who is going to play even more poorly?
 

ruralgopher said:
Rosemtn- the Oline was not just terrible at run blocking last year, he has NEVER had a running game. College qb's need a running game, even spread qb's. Heck NFL qb's need a running game. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: If Weber starts the year with our new look pro style/ power running game and he continues to demonstrate happy feet in the pocket and poor decision making, pull him- he is probably beyond repair if that is the case. But, until we see what he can do with a clear head and (hopefully) some offensive support, lets let it be. He probably was named starter because he has shown the coaches that he is the best option to win.
Click to expand...

It is not as simple as that at all, that is a dumb argument
 



You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom