All Things Gophers Basketball Class of 2022 Recruiting Thread

[Bad Gopher]

Yeah he was dynamic in high school but he had a suspect outside shot. No one knew he’d turn out this good. We also need to remember he wouldn’t have played much his freshman year either. Mason had the spot locked down. Also don’t have Marcus Carr either then. It’s all hindsight

From Wright's standpoint, a door closed and another one opened, which ended up being the perfect situation. He and Craig Smith ought to correspond.

 

[Gopherfan12]

Anyone know anything about Pharrel Payne? Seen Ryan James tweet about him the last 2 weekends. 6’9 big that seems to be having a nice spring. Any chance he’s good enough for a gopher offer? Never seen him play

 

[Gopherholefan]

Anyone know anything about Pharrel Payne? Seen Ryan James tweet about him the last 2 weekends. 6’9 big that seems to be having a nice spring. Any chance he’s good enough for a gopher offer? Never seen him play

Yes. A real nice player from Park CG. I’ve seen him the last 2 winters. He Played real well in their upset win at Eastview in the playoffs this season. He has made a huge jump from his soph season to his junior season. If he makes that jump again this summer, watch out

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Pitino was lazy 10 months out of the year but he was good in the spring to be fair

So true. Richie had zero salesman fire. In an office setting he’d be that awful sales guy who is always gone and way behind in Oct. ‘I need more support from the home office.’ Yer fired.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Pitino was lazy 10 months out of the year but he was good in the spring to be fair

My take is that he had some early difficulty with local recruiting and didn't click with the local movers and shakers, and he got discouraged. A combination of that and him under-valuing the capabilities of local products. Like builtbadgers said the other day, many of the top 50-150 around here are better than many of the top-50. That shapes up as a huge opportunity and advantage for a U coach who can evaluate players and exploit the situation.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

As others have noted, the "in-state recruiting" is a catch-22 for MN.

If the Gophers are winning, very few people care whether there are 1, 2, 3 or 0 MN players on the roster.

But if the team is losing, that is where we see the "should have recruited more in-state players" crowd rise up.

And, as a native Minnesotan, I will be the first to say that I think some people (not all) have a tendency to over-rate MN players as compared to the national recruiting scene. We see a MN kid dominate the local competition - but we don't stop to consider that other recruits from different parts of the country are often facing a higher level of competition.

for the very best MN kids, we can see them playing in the national AAU tournaments, so we get a chance to compare apples to apples.

the trick is with that second rung of talent that may not get a chance to face similar competition. those are the kids who might turn out to be really good, but they might also have weaknesses exposed when moving up to play D1 level competition. those are the kids who can make or break a program.

 

[Spottedmuskie]

As others have noted, the "in-state recruiting" is a catch-22 for MN.

If the Gophers are winning, very few people care whether there are 1, 2, 3 or 0 MN players on the roster.

But if the team is losing, that is where we see the "should have recruited more in-state players" crowd rise up.

And, as a native Minnesotan, I will be the first to say that I think some people (not all) have a tendency to over-rate MN players as compared to the national recruiting scene. We see a MN kid dominate the local competition - but we don't stop to consider that other recruits from different parts of the country are often facing a higher level of competition.

for the very best MN kids, we can see them playing in the national AAU tournaments, so we get a chance to compare apples to apples.

the trick is with that second rung of talent that may not get a chance to face similar competition. those are the kids who might turn out to be really good, but they might also have weaknesses exposed when moving up to play D1 level competition. those are the kids who can make or break a program.

When the team is losing and you know a Minnesota kid is starting at Texas, Colorado, Gonzaga, North Carolina, Indiana, Marquette, Wisconsin, etc of course a lot of people are going to rise up about it

 

[walleye]

1. The goal is to building a winning program and eventually an elite program.
2. Basketball is an international sport.
3. We have to recruit the best players that we can regardless of the state or nation that they come from. The elite teams land players from across the country and ocean. Gonzaga only had two players from Washington. The rest were foreign players (4) or from across the country.
4. Minnesota is not in a geographic area with a large population nor is basketball the dominant sport. Universities in Texas, California, and the Northeast have a lot of players to choose from and can field more home-grown talent.
5. If we depend on recruiting many Minnesota kids, we will be average at best.
6. If we land a Minnesota superstar like Suggs or even a superstar from elsewhere, they will be one-and-done. This won't help the program much because we have sunk to too low a level. Some schools can make a living on one-and-dones because they have the track record and will replace those players each year. We need great players who will stay 3 or ideally 4 years.
7. Even with great recruiting efforts, we are going to lose good Minnesota players because they want to experience different areas and be more independent. Likewise, we have attracted good athletes to Minnesota because they want to get away from home and experience something different.
8. I like Minnesota players because they are players to "feel good about" and to "root for." However, we will not build a winning team or an outstanding program quick enough by depending on Minnesota kids.

 

[CoMn]

1. The goal is to building a winning program and eventually an elite program.
2. Basketball is an international sport.
3. We have to recruit the best players that we can regardless of the state or nation that they come from. The elite teams land players from across the country and ocean. Gonzaga only had two players from Washington. The rest were foreign players (4) or from across the country.
4. Minnesota is not in a geographic area with a large population nor is basketball the dominant sport. Universities in Texas, California, and the Northeast have a lot of players to choose from and can field more home-grown talent.
5. If we depend on recruiting many Minnesota kids, we will be average at best.
6. If we land a Minnesota superstar like Suggs or even a superstar from elsewhere, they will be one-and-done. This won't help the program much because we have sunk to too low a level. Some schools can make a living on one-and-dones because they have the track record and will replace those players each year. We need great players who will stay 3 or ideally 4 years.
7. Even with great recruiting efforts, we are going to lose good Minnesota players because they want to experience different areas and be more independent. Likewise, we have attracted good athletes to Minnesota because they want to get away from home and experience something different.
8. I like Minnesota players because they are players to "feel good about" and to "root for." However, we will not build a winning team or an outstanding program quick enough by depending on Minnesota kidsI

If we were able to get Minnesota kids to come to the U, we could live on Minnesota recruits. A team on only has 13 scholarships that covers up to 5 years worth of players or 2.6 players a year on average. While one wouldn't want to restrict themselves to only Minnesota players, one need not recruit many each year to be successful. Minnesota also has the advantage of only having one high major program in the state for basketball. That is highly unusual and should give us a big advantage in getting the recruits. In addition, one wants in-state recruits as they are more likely to stick around for 4 years as their families can watch them. Look at the transfer portal and you can see a decent percentage of players transferring to schools where they grew up. Minnesota has lots of great players...one and dones and 4 year role players. We don't need them all to improve on the records of Pitino's teams. While some kids want to leave the state, a good number want to be close to home. As far as what others have said, I don't think Ben was hired to turn down talented out-of-state players to take less talented in-state players. I think he was hired to work the state hard because our last coach failed to build relationships with the coaches in-state and therefore lost out on tons of great players.

 

[ecoperson]

If we were able to get Minnesota kids to come to the U, we could live on Minnesota recruits. A team on only has 13 scholarships that covers up to 5 years worth of players or 2.6 players a year on average. While one wouldn't want to restrict themselves to only Minnesota players, one need not recruit many each year to be successful. Minnesota also has the advantage of only having one high major program in the state for basketball. That is highly unusual and should give us a big advantage in getting the recruits. In addition, one wants in-state recruits as they are more likely to stick around for 4 years as their families can watch them. Look at the transfer portal and you can see a decent percentage of players transferring to schools where they grew up. Minnesota has lots of great players...one and dones and 4 year role players. We don't need them all to improve on the records of Pitino's teams. While some kids want to leave the state, a good number want to be close to home. As far as what others have said, I don't think Ben was hired to turn down talented out-of-state players to take less talented in-state players. I think he was hired to work the state hard because our last coach failed to build relationships with the coaches in-state and therefore lost out on tons of great players.

I do not agree that the U could survive on MN recruits alone. As others have astutely pointed out, top level talent in MN has ebbed and flowed over the last decade. One also has to factor in need. For example, if the only high D-1 recruit in MN this year is a center but you signed a more highly ranked center from MN the previous year, you may want to go out of state to fill a position of need in the make up of your roster.

I STRONGLY agree with the last portion of your post. Ben was hired to build relationships within the state to help keep more MN kids home... not to build a team of exclusively of MN kids and not to get EVERY MN kid we go after. That center from MN from my example above is likely wise to look at other universities where he won't be behind a higher rated center for most of his career. A teen whose parent went to another school but moved to MSP for work may have been a lifelong fan of that team and want to follow in the parent's footsteps. A player may be turned off by the grit and grind defense played in the Big 10 so opt for a more free-flowing conference like the ACC or SEC.

These losses are not all on the coach. Many will say that these are excuses but, in fact, they are simply some of many factors in the complex world of recruiting. Many on this board are over simplifying the game of recruiting. At the end of the day, there are far more reasons to leave your hometown than stay. Our goal is to reduce these as much as possible and to increase the ONE constant reason to stay home... to play with pride for your hometown university in front of friends and family.

Ben can help build that pride by recruiting the state harder so that a 7th grader today who turns into a phenom tomorrow sees a kid that went to his school and he looks up to on the roster. Or another kid had a cousin who played for the U a few years before and loved playing for Ben. Ben needs to make it cool to represent the U and, with a lot of hard work and patience, we might just be able to build something here.

 

[CoMn]

Ecoperson I have to disagree with you about people having far more reasons to leave their hometown that to stay. You'll find plenty of research supporting the fact that Americans aren't all that mobile despite what we believe. According to an article from the NYT:

"Over all, the median distance Americans live from their mother is 18 miles, and only 20 percent live more than a couple of hours’ drive from their parents."

The Typical American Lives Only 18 Miles From Mom (Published 2015)

The popular perception of Americans is that they are independent and rootless, but the reality is that people tend not to move very far from their parents.

www.nytimes.com

68% of Minnesotans were born in Minnesota. There is a strong draw to stay put or to return home. That is just one of the advantages of in-state recruiting. The other is the time it takes to evaluate players and having more information from coaches with which you have a relationship. Evaluating players is hard...if it weren't all those scouts in the NBA would get it right every time but even they don't even come close and they have a lot more info that a college coach does.

 

[GopherPlaya]

Ecoperson I have to disagree with you about people having far more reasons to leave their hometown that to stay. You'll find plenty of research supporting the fact that Americans aren't all that mobile despite what we believe. According to an article from the NYT:

"Over all, the median distance Americans live from their mother is 18 miles, and only 20 percent live more than a couple of hours’ drive from their parents."

The Typical American Lives Only 18 Miles From Mom (Published 2015)

The popular perception of Americans is that they are independent and rootless, but the reality is that people tend not to move very far from their parents.

www.nytimes.com

68% of Minnesotans were born in Minnesota. There is a strong draw to stay put or to return home. That is just one of the advantages of in-state recruiting. The other is the time it takes to evaluate players and having more information from coaches with which you have a relationship. Evaluating players is hard...if it weren't all those scouts in the NBA would get it right every time but even they don't even come close and they have a lot more info that a college coach does.

You are talking about adults. Not college kids. It's one thing to return post college but I agree more college kids are likely to leave especially with the advancements in technology where we can still see people via facetime

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Ecoperson I have to disagree with you about people having far more reasons to leave their hometown that to stay. You'll find plenty of research supporting the fact that Americans aren't all that mobile despite what we believe. According to an article from the NYT:

"Over all, the median distance Americans live from their mother is 18 miles, and only 20 percent live more than a couple of hours’ drive from their parents."

The Typical American Lives Only 18 Miles From Mom (Published 2015)

The popular perception of Americans is that they are independent and rootless, but the reality is that people tend not to move very far from their parents.

www.nytimes.com

68% of Minnesotans were born in Minnesota. There is a strong draw to stay put or to return home. That is just one of the advantages of in-state recruiting. The other is the time it takes to evaluate players and having more information from coaches with which you have a relationship. Evaluating players is hard...if it weren't all those scouts in the NBA would get it right every time but even they don't even come close and they have a lot more info that a college coach does.

I think this is largely dependent upon the opportunities elsewhere. I grew up on the East Side and the furthest most of those folks have moved is to the Saint Paul suburbs. There are challenges with moving (finding a job, moving itself, etc.).

I went to Cretin for HS and at least 50% of the people I graduated HS with lived a portion of their 20s in another city/state. Largely, I think it's because their parents had money and that makes moving way easier.

My point is just that any of the financial difficulties with moving are non-existent with D1 athletes.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Ecoperson I have to disagree with you about people having far more reasons to leave their hometown that to stay. You'll find plenty of research supporting the fact that Americans aren't all that mobile despite what we believe. According to an article from the NYT:

"Over all, the median distance Americans live from their mother is 18 miles, and only 20 percent live more than a couple of hours’ drive from their parents."

The Typical American Lives Only 18 Miles From Mom (Published 2015)

The popular perception of Americans is that they are independent and rootless, but the reality is that people tend not to move very far from their parents.

www.nytimes.com

68% of Minnesotans were born in Minnesota. There is a strong draw to stay put or to return home. That is just one of the advantages of in-state recruiting. The other is the time it takes to evaluate players and having more information from coaches with which you have a relationship. Evaluating players is hard...if it weren't all those scouts in the NBA would get it right every time but even they don't even come close and they have a lot more info that a college coach does.

For 2021, Michigan's class has one recruit from Mich, Duke has one unrated transfer from NC, Kansas has one from KS, Kentucky has no players from KY.

 

[TruthSeeker]

For 2021, Michigan's class has one recruit from Mich, Duke has one unrated transfer from NC, Kansas has one from KS, Kentucky has no players from KY.

How many high-major D1 schools do Michigan, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Kansas have? If more than 1, how many went to another in-state school?

How many high-major recruits do Kansas and Kentucky typically produce in a given year?

 

[PMWinSTP]

How many high-major D1 schools do Michigan, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Kansas have? If more than 1, how many went to another in-state school?

How many high-major recruits do Kansas and Kentucky typically produce in a given year?

Those two are on pretty much on par with MN. KS might have more.

 

[Classof 66]

Frankly, at this point I don't care where the players come from as long as they fit into BJ's plans. He focuses on players that can shoot (and play Defense) rather than athleticism.

Down the road if he indeed is winning, there is something there that will interest local kids to stay home. But, not all of them. Some prefer to go to NBA mill schools. These guys know they've got a bright NBA future and want to shine on their one and dones.

Like Parker Fox. Athletic as heck. Not the best shooter. Can play defense at high level because of that athleticism. In fact it is hard to be elite defender without athleticism.

 

[Holy Man]

I think this is largely dependent upon the opportunities elsewhere. I grew up on the East Side and the furthest most of those folks have moved is to the Saint Paul suburbs. There are challenges with moving (finding a job, moving itself, etc.).

I went to Cretin for HS and at least 50% of the people I graduated HS with lived a portion of their 20s in another city/state. Largely, I think it's because their parents had money and that makes moving way easier.

My point is just that any of the financial difficulties with moving are non-existent with D1 athletes.

Affluent people are mobile people .

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

Does anyone have any actual 2022 recruiting news?

 

[GopherBlood777]

Does anyone have any actual 2022 recruiting news?

I'm sure it will pick up once the opening roster for 2021-22 has been finalized. Most of the recruiting news usually comes out of the summer AAU circuit. That should give us an idea of who the staff is really targeting.

 

[Tucker32]

How many high-major D1 schools do Michigan, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Kansas have? If more than 1, how many went to another in-state school?

How many high-major recruits do Kansas and Kentucky typically produce in a given year?

This type of analysis has been posted numerous times on Gopherhole and elsewhere. It’s true for pretty much every major school in every state. The 4 and 5 stars often leave their home state, with the 5 stars rarely staying home.

 

[Bad Gopher]

This type of analysis has been posted numerous times on Gopherhole and elsewhere. It’s true for pretty much every major school in every state. The 4 and 5 stars often leave their home state, with the 5 stars rarely staying home.

Rarely but not never

 

[alchemy2u]

I think this is largely dependent upon the opportunities elsewhere. I grew up on the East Side and the furthest most of those folks have moved is to the Saint Paul suburbs. There are challenges with moving (finding a job, moving itself, etc.).

I went to Cretin for HS and at least 50% of the people I graduated HS with lived a portion of their 20s in another city/state. Largely, I think it's because their parents had money and that makes moving way easier.

My point is just that any of the financial difficulties with moving are non-existent with D1 athletes.

It also is highly dependent upon your career. Out of college I had job offers from around the country and the company pays your moving expenses. And my family was dirt poor.

 

[CoMn]

You are talking about adults. Not college kids. It's one thing to return post college but I agree more college kids are likely to leave especially with the advancements in technology where we can still see people via facetime

My career is getting kids into college. Most stay in-state by huge percentages.

 

[CoMn]

For 2021, Michigan's class has one recruit from Mich, Duke has one unrated transfer from NC, Kansas has one from KS, Kentucky has no players from KY.

Those are blue bloods and the best team in the B1G....we are neither. I randomly picked Illinois and looked them up... 5 players from Illinois including one named Kofi who was a 5-star. Which supports my hypothesis that a good portion of folks want to stay by their families...not all but a significant portion which makes it an advantage in recruiting for the hometown school. 5 stars leave because they want to go to the NBA so they go to the NBA feeder schools.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Those are blue bloods and the best team in the B1G....we are neither

So that somehow means what, U should be better at instate recruiting? Not really sure where you are going here...

 

[PMWinSTP]

Those are blue bloods and the best team in the B1G....we are neither. I randomly picked Illinois and looked them up... 5 players from Illinois including one named Kofi who was a 5-star. Which supports my hypothesis that a good portion of folks want to stay by their families...not all but a significant portion which makes it an advantage in recruiting for the hometown school. 5 stars leave because they want to go to the NBA so they go to the NBA feeder schools.

Illinois did not have any of the top HS players in Ill in its 2021 class, and has added just two considered top instate recruits the last 4 years 2018-21. Kofi Cockburn is from Jamaica via Virginia. How about Penn State?

 

[Tucker32]

Rarely but not never

That’s what I wrote

 

[CoMn]

So that somehow means what, U should be better at instate recruiting? Not really sure where you are going here...

What I am saying is that many but not all people like to stay home if the home school is a good option. The U and every school has advantages with instate recruits. First they are easier to evaluate as it takes less time, 2nd the coaches have an easier time to develop relationships with both players and coaches (camps, previous recruits etc.) and lastly some percentage of players will favor playing in front of the home crowd or for the team for which they grew up rooting.

 

[PMWinSTP]

What I am saying is that many but not all people like to stay home if the home school is a good option. The U and every school has advantages with instate recruits. First they are easier to evaluate as it takes less time, 2nd the coaches have an easier time to develop relationships with both players and coaches (camps, previous recruits etc.) and lastly some percentage of players will favor playing in front of the home crowd or for the team for which they grew up rooting.

Sorry, that's just not true with most higher end recruits, especially basketball. As or more likely to go somewhere else.