Vikings Stadium

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awag777 said:
You're a moron if you think a majority of Minnesotans don't want to keep the Vikings in Minnesota.
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At no point did I argue about whether or not people want the Vikings to stay in Minnesota. You should try reading before opening your mouth to hurl childish insults. You just make yourself look stupid when you engage in behavior like that. :pig:
 

RodentRampage said:
That being said, if the Vikings to move, there will be another team here.
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It is far from guaranteed that Minnesota would bring a replacement NFL franchise in the event that the Vikings left town. Just because the North Stars were replaced does not ensure that the Vikings eventually will be. If (hypothetically), a struggling economy prevents the state of Minnesota from building a new stadium for Vikings, why would Minnesota turn around and pay more money for an expansion franchise without the Vikings history or popular appeal? :confused:
 

RodentRampage said:
One big reason that I am glad the Gophers have their own stadium is because if we were still in the dome, the Gophers would again be used as a revenue source for the Vikings, and we'd be forced into the new Vikings stadium for decades more.

That being said, if the Vikings to move, there will be another team here. Many of the people opposed to building a new stadium would then shake their fists and demand "why did you let the Vikings leave?" We'll just wind up spending even more for a stadium to entice a team to move here than we would if we built a new Vikings stadium.

Maybe the NFL should expand by a few more cities so that there is no longer a credible threat of moving to another city.
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That's why LA has remained open for so long the NFL needs a viable threat in order to continue to receive public stadium subsidies league wide. The minute a credible threat ceases to exist public financing goes away.
The state needs to learn from the North Stars debacle and build the stadium for relatively cheap now rather than lose the team and pay double to get another team back.
 

I agree, LA is by far the most credible threat for relocation for any team. All 32 teams can threaten to pack up and move to LA. Once LA gets a team, the threat of moving is drastically reduced. If people want to say goodbye to the Vikings, they had better be prepared to say 'no' to the NFL, because we will may more to build a new stadium for a new team than to build one for the Vikings.

If we do build a stadium, we need to make sure that the Vikings are signed for a very long time.

The NFL won't allow teams to be fan-owned like the Packers (the Packers are grandfathered in). I think the NFL should change this rule.
 

AhliBobwa said:
It is far from guaranteed that Minnesota would bring a replacement NFL franchise in the event that the Vikings left town. Just because the North Stars were replaced does not ensure that the Vikings eventually will be. If (hypothetically), a struggling economy prevents the state of Minnesota from building a new stadium for Vikings, why would Minnesota turn around and pay more money for an expansion franchise without the Vikings history or popular appeal? :confused:
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See Browns, Cleveland.
 


If the Vikings are willing to sign a 75 yr lease, build it. If not, I won't lose too much sleep over not having the opportunity to be held hostage every 20-30 years by billioniares.
 

AhliBobwa said:
why would Minnesota turn around and pay more money for an expansion franchise without the Vikings history or popular appeal? :confused:
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Why did Cleveland do it when it lost the Browns?
Why did Houston do it when it lost the Oilers?
Why did St. Louis do it when it lost the Cardinals?
Why did Baltimore do it when it lost the Colts?

They did it because they realized they missed football and it was worth it to the community.
 

I wish Wilf would agree to this plan:

1. Sell the Metrodome to Wilf for $1, including the land it sits on.
2. Purchase some parking lots around the Dome and give it to Wilf.
3. Give Wilf $300-$400 mil to renovate the Dome.
4. Pay for #2 and #3 thru slots, lotteries, merchandise taxes, etc

I saw a plan that showed that $400 mil would be enough to add an additional level of suites in the dome as well as increase the size of the concourses, refurbish the exterior and roof, and improve the lockerrooms.


Benefits of this plan:
1. Infrastructure is already in place given the site doesn't change.
2. $400 mil is less than 1/2 the amount that it would cost to build a stadium from scratch.
3. Wilf gets twice the suite money, more parking revenue, plus all concessions.
4. No existing public money to fund.

Drawbacks:
1. For at least 1 season, the Vikes have to find another home. A renovation this large would take at least 18 months.
2. Wilf wants to start from scratch.

Personally, I'd like to see the state play chicken and say take it or leave it with this plan.
 

tjgopher said:
Why did Cleveland do it when it lost the Browns?
Why did Houston do it when it lost the Oilers?
Why did St. Louis do it when it lost the Cardinals?
Why did Baltimore do it when it lost the Colts?

They did it because they realized they missed football and it was worth it to the community.
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We have Big Time football here, with or without the Vikings (this is GopherHole after all). I don't understand how some people think the community will fall apart without an NFL franchise. It won't, and vastly more people than you think couldn't care less about anything sports related.
 



AhliBobwa said:
We have Big Time football here, with or without the Vikings (this is GopherHole after all). I don't understand how some people think the community will fall apart without an NFL franchise. It won't, and vastly more people than you think couldn't care less about anything sports related.
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Vastly more people than you think would move heaven and earth to get a new NFL team here if the Vikings left. This may be Gopherhole, but lets not think that we are a random sampling of the people of the state of Minnesota.

If the Vikings left, the Gophers would probably become a hotter ticket, but the move for a new NFL team would begin the moment the Vikings left.
 

loki said:
I may be the only guy who wishes the Vikings would just go away. I'm sick of pro basketball and Football because all it has become is "thug life." I still have season tickets for Gopher football but I'm starting to become somewhat disinterested in college football and basketball as well for the same reasons. There are just too many players that are not good people. In regards to helping the economy if I don't spend my money on football I will spend it on something else so in general I would call it draw at best. I figure its the same for other people.
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I heard some "Patriot" is trying to form a pro basketball league for "non thug life", "real American" players only. I'm serious. If the "Patriot" gets enough like minded sports fans for that sport, he'll try for a football league, too. In the mean time, head on up w94 and become a Johnnies fan. Believe me, the Vikings, t-wolves and Gophers fb/bb won't miss you. You'll still have gopher and wild hockey. After all, there's only "good people" on those teams.
 


AhliBobwa said:
At no point did I argue about whether or not people want the Vikings to stay in Minnesota. You should try reading before opening your mouth to hurl childish insults. You just make yourself look stupid when you engage in behavior like that. :pig:
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But that is precisely the point. Forget about everything else. Do we want the Vikings or don't we, period. They have us by the nards. Believe me they will leave and we will be very unhappy not to have our Vikings to root for on Sundays. Piss and moan about revenue, other needs, what ever. The question is, do you want to keep the Vikings? If yes, then we pay the price. If no, we all learn to love skiing, skating and the Green Bay Packers.
 




mnboiler said:
Lets not kid ourselves the Vikings need a new stadium sooner rather than later. Most of thier designs they have been really nice but the most recent ones have Teflon roof. Wait, that sounds familiar, isn't that what the Metrodome roof is made out of. So let me get this right Viking, Gophers, and Twins fans have suffered for years under a white puffy sky. Now that two team to get out of it now the only team left to escape wants a NEW Metrodome. Am I missing something here. The Metrodome is terrible and NOW you want to build a new Metrodome. I feel like Lewis Black here. Some people are just stupid.

You don't believe me check out the 6th paragraph in this blog.
http://www.savethevikes.org/2009/12/22/metrodome-next-great-vision-or-pipe-dream/

Those photos look familiar too.
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Correct. The current design is like a bad joke.

When Zigi came to town talking about an open air stadium in the suburbs, I had visions of the Vikings going back to real football with real tailgating. Now they're talking about building the Metrodome again? Maybe even in the same location?

Eff that. I'd rather the team just leave town.

An open air stadium is the cheapest and best option. The economic impact of Superbowls and Final Fours is grossly exaggerated.
 

Jerry Jones built his own multi-purpose stadium. It seems to be working out well for him. Why can't Mr. Wilf?
 

AhliBobwa said:
We have Big Time football here, with or without the Vikings (this is GopherHole after all). I don't understand how some people think the community will fall apart without an NFL franchise. It won't, and vastly more people than you think couldn't care less about anything sports related.
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No one said the community would shrivel up and cease to exist. Houston, St. Louis, Cleveland, Baltimore all would have survived without the NFL. That isn't what anyone is saying. The point is, enough people in those towns felt like the NFL was important enough to pay big $$$ and build a new stadium to lure teams back to their cities or get an expansion team. There will be enough people in the upper midwest who agree. Should the Vikings bolt for LA, we will get an NFL team back here in due time. And, I promise you if you poll the people in all of those other towns, they would ALL say they should have just ponied up the dough to begin with and kept their original franchise. They all would have been better off.

As to us already having big time football, could you not make the argument we already had big time hockey (this is GopherHole after all). Yet, that didn't stop the puck heads from going and getting a new NHL hockey franchise here. The same will happen with the NFL.

Just build the thing, employ 3000 people at a down time, and keep the original team. It isn't that hard. This community will pay at some point, and the sooner it happens the cheaper it will be.
 


tjgopher said:
...the sooner it happens the cheaper it will be.
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Funny thing is, the sooner it happens, the less Wilf will have to pay as well. How much has the price tag on a new stadium gone up since Wilf bought the team in 2005? Back in those days, wasn't the cost estimated to be in the $600-700MM range? Now its estimated to be $870MM at the cheapest. Wilf is a smart guy. He has to realize that trying to get public funds while the country is recovering from the worst recession since the Great Depression probably isn't going to work (here or anywhere else in the US). Soon, he'll have to accept that if he wants a new stadium he's going to have to pay for most of it himself and that the sooner he scraps his attempts to get tax payer help, the more money he will save himself.
 

The Vikings could agree to an extension and try again when the economy is more favorable. It depends on how credible the threat of moving to LA is. If they did move, I wonder if they would leave the name behind as they did with the Browns.
 

Reading this thread should be example A1 on why the Vikings are a detriment to the Gophers. We're on a GOPHER message board and I get the feeling most people on here want the Vikings to stay. If you took a poll - I would bet most would want them to stay.

It would be equivalent to a Burger King message board where BK executives were in favor of the McDonald's across the street building a brand new state-of-the-art facility.

The Burger King can still stay in business even though the McDonald's is across the street. If it works really hard, it might even be able to thrive one day. There is enough demand. But think of how many MORE people would eat at the Burger King if the McDonald's moved that franchise to another location. It might take awhile to build up the new clientele, and it wouldn't happen overnight, but in the long run it would be a good thing - and make it that much easier for that BK to be the #1 choice for fast food in that town.

I just can't believe so many diehard Gopher fans are also big Vikings fans. Just because they don't compete in your mind doesn't mean it is that way for the other 99% of the population of MN. My obsession with the Gophers has made it evidently clear in my mind the the Vikings are one of many obstacles in the way of success - and as a result I am no longer a Vikings "fan" because of my Gopher loyalty - and I just wish more of us realized it.
 

I would wager that most of the people sitting in the stands watching the Gophers on Saturday are on their couches watching the Vikings on Sunday. Even if the Vikings were to leave, it is unlikely that the Gophers would remain the only game in town for long. The number of people who would demand an NFL would be many times greater than those who demanded that the Gophers be the only team in town.

Why not build the Vikings stadium in Saint Cloud? It's close enough to the Twin Cities so that people could just drive up I-94 to go to the games or get on the Northstar line once it goes all the way to Saint Cloud. Since the team is named for the state rather than for a city, the name wouldn't be a problem.
 

josh087 said:
Reading this thread should be example A1 on why the Vikings are a detriment to the Gophers. We're on a GOPHER message board and I get the feeling most people on here want the Vikings to stay. If you took a poll - I would bet most would want them to stay.

It would be equivalent to a Burger King message board where BK executives were in favor of the McDonald's across the street building a brand new state-of-the-art facility.

The Burger King can still stay in business even though the McDonald's is across the street. If it works really hard, it might even be able to thrive one day. There is enough demand. But think of how many MORE people would eat at the Burger King if the McDonald's moved that franchise to another location. It might take awhile to build up the new clientele, and it wouldn't happen overnight, but in the long run it would be a good thing - and make it that much easier for that BK to be the #1 choice for fast food in that town.

I just can't believe so many diehard Gopher fans are also big Vikings fans. Just because they don't compete in your mind doesn't mean it is that way for the other 99% of the population of MN. My obsession with the Gophers has made it evidently clear in my mind the the Vikings are one of many obstacles in the way of success - and as a result I am no longer a Vikings "fan" because of my Gopher loyalty - and I just wish more of us realized it.
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I don't agree with that at all. If the Vikings leave Minnesota, the Gophers would certainly get a lot more attention from Minnesotans and the media, however I don't see how the Viking's absence would systematically cause the Gophers to become a better team. Maybe you could explain your thought process. The idea that the football program's recent mediocrity can be attributed to the Vikings in any way is asinine.

By the same logic, do you think Gopher basketball and hockey fans should want the Timberwolves and Wild to leave?

The Vikings have a long history and tradition in Minnesota, and I don't think "diehard" gopher fans should be told that they should want the Vikings to leave if they are true gopher fans. The Gophers can succeed with the Vikings in town. They just haven't.
 


josh087 said:
Reading this thread should be example A1 on why the Vikings are a detriment to the Gophers. We're on a GOPHER message board and I get the feeling most people on here want the Vikings to stay. If you took a poll - I would bet most would want them to stay.

It would be equivalent to a Burger King message board where BK executives were in favor of the McDonald's across the street building a brand new state-of-the-art facility.

The Burger King can still stay in business even though the McDonald's is across the street. If it works really hard, it might even be able to thrive one day. There is enough demand. But think of how many MORE people would eat at the Burger King if the McDonald's moved that franchise to another location. It might take awhile to build up the new clientele, and it wouldn't happen overnight, but in the long run it would be a good thing - and make it that much easier for that BK to be the #1 choice for fast food in that town.

I just can't believe so many diehard Gopher fans are also big Vikings fans. Just because they don't compete in your mind doesn't mean it is that way for the other 99% of the population of MN. My obsession with the Gophers has made it evidently clear in my mind the the Vikings are one of many obstacles in the way of success - and as a result I am no longer a Vikings "fan" because of my Gopher loyalty - and I just wish more of us realized it.
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This is the most asinine thing I've ever read on here. If it's is a joke-well done.
 

josh087 said:
Reading this thread should be example A1 on why the Vikings are a detriment to the Gophers...I just can't believe so many diehard Gopher fans are also big Vikings fans. Just because they don't compete in your mind doesn't mean it is that way for the other 99% of the population of MN. My obsession with the Gophers has made it evidently clear in my mind the the Vikings are one of many obstacles in the way of success - and as a result I am no longer a Vikings "fan" because of my Gopher loyalty - and I just wish more of us realized it.
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:clap:

+ infinity.

I too, don't think it's a coincidence that since the advent of the Vikings, The Golden Gophers-- one of the most storied programs in the history of college football, is now treated like a second class citizen by much of its own local media.

College football is superior to professional football in every respect and for many reasons.
--Game Day is always electric due to the fact that every single week sees teams eliminated from National Title/Conference title contention. (whereas, in the NFL 9-7 in the regular season is enough to win the Super Bowl). Rivalries have incredibly interesting histories (and as Golden Gopher fans we are lucky to be involved in three of longest running and most historic trophy games in college football). http://bleacherreport.com/articles/370284-the-10-best-traveling-trophies-in-college-football#page/8

--In CFB the play on the field is varied and interesting. Teams run drastically different styles on both offense and defense. Last year the Gophers saw an option team, different spread looks, variations of power attacks, all with vastly different blocking schemes.
This point is illustrated by the brilliance of smartfootball.com. I suggest reading this article in its entirety.
http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/nfl-offense-what-is-it-why-does-every.html

The below quote from the aforementioned article says it all--

'There's several reasons why I devote less space here to what NFL teams do than for college teams. Far and away the most significant reason though, is that, somewhat counterintuitively, NFL offenses are surprisingly bland and homogenized. Not entirely, but as a rule of thumb, 80% of what NFL teams do on offense (or defense, really too) is extremely straightforward to the point where every team runs the same stuff. And the list is not that long.'

There's a reason why the best announcers and football purists watch college football. Watching the NFL is often mind numbingly boring because of this strategic blandness.

This isn't even mentioning the fact that Universities are no threat to leave and serve the community infinitely more than any professional sports team.
 

positively4thstreet said:
This is the most asinine thing I've ever read on here. If it's is a joke-well done.
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I am with you, josh. You are right on target with your comments. The sooner we can get the Purple out of town, the sooner the Gophers can get back to winning Big 10 Championships. Once the Vikings leave there will never again be an empty seat at Gophers Stadium.
 

AhliBobwa said:
College football is superior to professional football in every respect
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Obviously, it is not. Why even type something so stupid? Stop fishing for replies to your posts.

"I like it more" in no way equals "superior...in every respect", d*uchenozzle.
 

ChemEGopher said:
Soon, he'll have to accept that if he wants a new stadium he's going to have to pay for most of it himself and that the sooner he scraps his attempts to get tax payer help, the more money he will save himself.
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That's just not true. Industry (California) is prepared to pay for most of a stadium. They just need a team. So, if you're Wilf, you can ask Minnesota to step up and pay for 65% of the stadium. If MN does, the Vikings stay. And, if MN fails to do it, then he takes his poker chips to California where they ARE COMMITTED to paying for 65%+ of the new stadium. He gets into a bigger market and the value of the team increases. So, he has leverage and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Then, 7-8 years later, some bigwigs in the MSP sports community realize how much they miss the NFL, combine some forces, talk the lawmakers into finally building a new stadium and pay $1.3 billion to build it and introduce the Minnesota Jaguars (moving in from JAX). Yeah! The NFL is here! Does that sound appetizing?

No, it is best to spend the money now, keep the current storied franchise in town, and be done with it. Yes, the economy is down. All the more reason to commit some resources towards job creation and economic development surrounding a new football stadium. Instantly, there would be at least 3000 new construction jobs for at least two years. There would be countless ancillary economic benefits (secondary jobs, property development, community pride) in both the short term and long term. An $800 million dollar stadium means there is money being spent on jobs, goods, materials, etc. If they're smart, they'll force them to buy much of the supplies from MN based companies to keep that part of it local. There could be tons of benefits that may - in a small way - help get the economy going a bit.

And, for clarification, I'm just dealing in what I believe is reality. If I had my druthers, I'd love for the Vikings to bolt for LA and never have NFL football in MSP again. I do think it would help the Gophers. But, the reality of it is, the NFL is a money-producing machine that is the most popular sport in America. The Vikings are wildly more popular than the Gophers. If the Vikings leave, the reality is there will be NFL football returning here. The Gophers won't get a football monopoly. There's just too much money to be made in the the nation's 16th largest market for it to be NFL-less.
 

AhliBobwa said:
I too, don't think it's a coincidence that since the advent of the Vikings, The Golden Gophers-- one of the most storied programs in the history of college football, is now treated like a second class citizen by much of its own local media.
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Other colleges have head to deal with NFL teams without having to deal with such a negative media. I'm not so sure the media would be much more positive if the Gophers were the only game in town.

College football is superior to professional football in every respect and for many reasons.
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I prefer college football too. However, what I prefer doesn't matter. The NFL is quite popular, after all. The NFL playoffs have been extremely popular, I don't think there are many NFL fans crying out for dispensing with the playoffs and having #1 play #2.
 

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